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HitTheTargets
Mar 3, 2006

I came here to laugh at you.


the_steve posted:

Behold! Banjo the Clown! God of Puppets!



More edit: mature fat women porn
That's the comic I got the image from, in case anyone feels like outdoing me.

I really like the star background from the original comic. See if you can crop that, then take it to the GIF thread so someone can maybe do something with the puppet or the star's borders.

Edit: Oh, I guess I missed your last post. Um.... see if someone else will crop the star for you.

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MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



The Werle posted:

Personally I'd crop out the bubble and just have a larger picture of Thog. As is its a little too small to make the avatar grab your eye, and the quote in the bubble does nothing to enhance it.

If it were me, I'd leave the 'Nale!' and put in as much of the Nale/Not Nale speech as I can in the quote.

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matryx
Jul 22, 2005

I think I just had an evilgasm...

Aww man - oots has been a long running favourite of mine in the webcomic department. I have to resist reading them for a few weeks so I can binge on them all in one go, and now of course we end up with the aforementioned cliffhanger :O

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea for him to animate them? I love the comic form, I can just visualise good things for a bunch of cartoon shorts as well (and yes I'm aware it takes about a million times longer to do animation over stills, but I can dream)

Edit: I think the way that the various subthreads were wound up worked really well, and I have to agree with the previous statements about the writing quality having improved.

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TJO
Aug 14, 2006

I had a funny feeling in my gut.


Holy moly, this is great. In fact it has given me an all new faith in webcomics. Thanks SuperKlaus.

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SuperKlaus
Oct 19, 2005
Like Klaus but better

bgaesop posted:

What blackguards are you looking at? 3.5 blackguards kick rear end. What level do you suppose Miko is currently?

Well, alright, I like the wee bit of Sneak Attack and the save-dropping aura. Summon Monster I is laughable, but it's not "core" blackguard, so I can't fault 'em much there. I think the biggest problem for me is that Smite Good only gets damage by levels in this one class. Compare to paladins, who if they don't just buy straight paladin can easily find prestiges to stack smite damage. It's all relative, I'm just saying the party at home straps on their lollerskates whenever a blackguard challenges them. Maybe because I can't be bothered to construct a blackguard to match the reigning Paladin / Fist of Tyr / Legendary Leader / Human Paragon / whatever the gently caress.

So, I retract that comment and state that Miko the blackguard could wreak unholy havoc on the nearly prestige-less heroes. Lookin' forward to it. The question is whether a brilliant energy sword, ripping off Star Wars, would be beneath the comic.

TJO posted:

Holy moly, this is great. In fact it has given me an all new faith in webcomics. Thanks SuperKlaus.

Welcome aboard and spread the word!

matryx posted:

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea for him to animate them?

Mm, no, I wouldn't want that. If for no other reason than that I couldn't buy a book.

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kicks forts
Feb 19, 2006

cheers

I've been following the comic for a while, and I really hate belkar. I just want him to die for killing good-hearted kobold duelists

And I'm glad he got back to making jokes about Haley, I'm not sure where he was going with the whole romance story.

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gothfae
Mar 28, 2004

There seems no plan because it is all plan. There seems no center because it is all center.

The Fortdeadlykick posted:

And I'm glad he got back to making jokes about Haley, I'm not sure where he was going with the whole romance story.

Right where he got. Nice thing about OotS is that it hits on all the different styles of D&D gaming. You got the power games, the epic campaigns, the comedy relief, the roleplay heavy...

The Haley romance fits right into a specific type of D&D campaign, but maybe you don't play with enough girls

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Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

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Interestingly enough, on the subject of Miko, there's a new PrC in the Complete Scoundrel book called Grey Guard which removes the xp cost of atonement spells cast on the paladin, as long as they broke the code in the course of the greater good (and at level 10 they almost never risk losing paladin abilities). It also lets them smite chaos and use their lay hands as a sort of harm touch. Not that he'd actually write Miko as being able to make that kind of moral decision, but it's nice that they're making a nod to the more Jack Bauer version of Lawful Good.

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bgaesop
Nov 1, 2005

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Coldbird posted:

Jack Bauer version of Lawful Good.

You mean Chaotic good?

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gothfae
Mar 28, 2004

There seems no plan because it is all plan. There seems no center because it is all center.

bgaesop posted:

You mean Chaotic good?

I think his technical alignment is

alignment: Jack Bauer (Good)

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bgaesop
Nov 1, 2005

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gothfae posted:

I think his technical alignment is

alignment: Jack Bauer (Good)

sex love 46 relationships Oh, you mean Chaotic Evil. Gotcha.

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gothfae
Mar 28, 2004

There seems no plan because it is all plan. There seems no center because it is all center.

bgaesop posted:

sexy babe sex video Oh, you mean Chaotic Evil. Gotcha.

This reminds me of Neverwinter nights 2, when for every good thing I do I have to do something irredemably evil to stay neutral. I became Neutral Good, and then spent the nex few encounters slitting throats until I was neutral again.

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Guardian 585
Sep 6, 2004




My attempt at a Banjo the Clown avatar

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The Werle
Aug 8, 2005

Fireworks for Christmas is absolutely American


Guardian 585 posted:



My attempt at a Banjo the Clown avatar

That is awesome.

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tsob
Sep 26, 2006

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I'd never seen or heard of this till a few days ago, when I saw threads for it popping up in /co/ on 4chan, and was shocked to see very little posts condemning, critisizing or mocking the comic. This actually shocked me enough that I had to read it.

Read through all 407 in work over 2 days, and have to say I love it. Trying to spread it to my flatmates now. I don't see what all the Miko bitching is about though, I like her as a character in that she provides an interesting foil to the OotS. But that may be because I'm only new to this and didn't have to toil through months of her, so that could be just bias...

Oh, and I am the only one who finds themselves using The Monarch's voice when reading Xychon's lines? I can't help it, but when I realised what I was doing it made me want an OotS cartoon, or even just a Xychon flash or something

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gothfae
Mar 28, 2004

There seems no plan because it is all plan. There seems no center because it is all center.

tsob posted:

I'd never seen or heard of this till a few days ago, when I saw threads for it popping up in /co/ on 4chan, and was shocked to see very little posts condemning, critisizing or mocking the comic. This actually shocked me enough that I had to read it.

Read through all 407 in work over 2 days, and have to say I love it. Trying to spread it to my flatmates now. I don't see what all the Miko bitching is about though, I like her as a character in that she provides an interesting foil to the OotS. But that may be because I'm only new to this and didn't have to toil through months of her, so that could be just bias...

Oh, and I am the only one who finds themselves using The Monarch's voice when reading Xychon's lines? I can't help it, but when I realised what I was doing it made me want an OotS cartoon, or even just a Xychon flash or something

My big thing is sometimes I don't feel comfortable recommending it, even though I love it, because you have to be a certain level of gaming geek to really get all the funny. And now I will hear his voice like that always.

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Gyges
Aug 4, 2004


tsob posted:

Oh, and I am the only one who finds themselves using The Monarch's voice when reading Xychon's lines? I can't help it, but when I realised what I was doing it made me want an OotS cartoon, or even just a Xychon flash or something

Sorry, all undead leaders sound like Mumm-Ra to me.

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Sep 26, 2006

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gothfae posted:

My big thing is sometimes I don't feel comfortable recommending it, even though I love it, because you have to be a certain level of gaming geek to really get all the funny. And now I will hear his voice like that always.

I don't know about that. I've never played any D&D or anything, and any familiarity I have with it is based purely on the few RPG's I'd have played on my PC, mostly a few months of WoW, and while I know that at times I'm missing jokes, or don't get one's, I still find a lot of humour in it.

My flatmates on the other hand have played a lot of it if I remember rightly.

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hermanos
Dec 30, 2005

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This thread reads like algebra to me, mostly since I know nada about D&D, but the strip is pretty funny.

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The Werle
Aug 8, 2005

Fireworks for Christmas is absolutely American


hermanos posted:

This thread reads like algebra to me, mostly since I know nada about D&D, but the strip is pretty funny.

The only way to learn is to roll a character.

Its time Hermanos. Don't be afraid. Its blissssssssssssss.

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rantmo
Jul 30, 2003

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The Werle posted:

The only way to learn is to roll a character.

Its time Hermanos. Don't be afraid. Its blissssssssssssss.

One of us! One of us!

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Gyges
Aug 4, 2004


I find it amazing how much of the strip I understand, yet I've never rolled up a character and played D&D. I nerd through osmosis, and playing popular RPGs.

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rantmo
Jul 30, 2003

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Gyges posted:

I find it amazing how much of the strip I understand, yet I've never rolled up a character and played D&D. I nerd through osmosis, and playing popular RPGs.

It's really not terribly complicated really, any fantasy cliche or stereotype that there is either comes from or was used by D&D. It's remarkable how much of it has snuck it's way into popular (geek/nerd) culture. If any you are interested in learning more, D&D does make a Basic Set that's sort of board-game like with a less complicated version of the rules. I've never played it myself but I'm told that it is a really good starting point. Or you could get a Player's Handbook and D&D for Dummies.

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May 3, 2005

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Black August posted:

Exactly. It's a hop, step, and a skip away from black armor and dark powers, all justified under insanity and delusion. Being a fallen Blackguard almost begs one to become delusional and requiring power again for the sake of "purity" and "vengeance", and considering how bad she's going to hurt, all it'd take is a few right words and a prison bust for her to be back in black.

Woah, I'm pretty sure Blackguards have to be ACTUALLY evil. They can't just be psychos/morons that think they are doing the right thing. That'd be like Belkar becoming a paladin solely for the class benefits, acting pretty much the same with the exception of restricting his more sadistic tendencies to evil creatures and limiting his negative interactions with good people to mild dickery instead of outright violence, and actually receiving divine power.

No lawful good god would give a chaotic evil person like Belkar powers, not even if it furthered the cause of law and good in the long run. I can't see why evil gods would act any different. People with inherent conflicts of interest make poor disciples. If her motivations are good then there's no way that evil gods are going to give her spells and poo poo. Miko has a lot of character flaws, but being evil is not one of them.

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Sep 26, 2006

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Wex Major posted:

People with inherent conflicts of interest make poor disciples. If her motivations are good then there's no way that evil gods are going to give her spells and poo poo. Miko has a lot of character flaws, but being evil is not one of them.

You do realise that what you've just described as impossible is pretty much exactly how Jedi fall and become Sith right? If it works in that case, I fail to see why it wouldn't in the case of D&D, though admittedly I'm not familiar with the rules and play. Still, power corrupts...

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rantmo
Jul 30, 2003

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Wex Major posted:

Woah, I'm pretty sure Blackguards have to be ACTUALLY evil.

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Jan 29, 2006

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Blackguards are often conflicted characters or characters who rationalise their actions. While i'm somewhat tired of the cliches that occur when hacks try to write moral ambiguity, the fact remains that blackguards and their ilk do not have to be "mua ha ha" style evil in order to function.

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Wex Major
May 3, 2005

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tsob posted:

You do realise that what you've just described as impossible is pretty much exactly how Jedi fall and become Sith right? If it works in that case, I fail to see why it wouldn't in the case of D&D, though admittedly I'm not familiar with the rules and play. Still, power corrupts...

It's completely different. The dark side of the force reprograms people to become evil if they aren't already. Jedi don't fall on their own, there is an outside evil force seeking to corrupt them. It's not a natural psychological response to power, it's a side-effect/hazard of opening your mind to the influence of the force. I don't know of any equivalent to the 'dark side' in D&D, and I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Evil gods come from one place and good gods come from another, it's nothing like the force where the light and dark sides stem from the same place.

To put it simply, a jedi with a powerful connection to the force is more vulnerable to the dark side than a jedi with a weak connection to the force, whereas a paladin with a powerful connection to the divine is more resistant to corruption than a paladin with a weak connection to the divine (note: zeal does not imply a powerful connection). I don't know where the whole Paladin = Jedi and Blackguard = Sith thing came from, but it's not really applicable.

Evil gods want servants who want the same thing they want. They aren't going to make someone who is a good person deep down into a loving blackguard. I'm not saying it's not possible that Miko won't become one, but I think it'd be pretty stupid if she does.

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Nov 9, 2005

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Wex Major posted:

It's completely different. The dark side of the force reprograms people to become evil if they aren't already. Jedi don't fall on their own, there is an outside evil force seeking to corrupt them. It's not a natural psychological response to power, it's a side-effect/hazard of opening your mind to the influence of the force. I don't know of any equivalent to the 'dark side' in D&D, and I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Evil gods come from one place and good gods come from another, it's nothing like the force where the light and dark sides stem from the same place.

To put it simply, a jedi with a powerful connection to the force is more vulnerable to the dark side than a jedi with a weak connection to the force, whereas a paladin with a powerful connection to the divine is more resistant to corruption than a paladin with a weak connection to the divine (note: zeal does not imply a powerful connection). I don't know where the whole Paladin = Jedi and Blackguard = Sith thing came from, but it's not really applicable.

Evil gods want servants who want the same thing they want. They aren't going to make someone who is a good person deep down into a loving blackguard. I'm not saying it's not possible that Miko won't become one, but I think it'd be pretty stupid if she does.

I don't think Miko is good deep down though.
She's a self righteous bitch who only mentions Lawful Good when she feels like using it as a shield to defend her actions. There are plenty of times she has done bad things in the comic, that although not evil, were infact bad.

For example, killing the Bandit Leader and his daughter.
Ok, fine, the sorceress was going to attack. But it was very clear that she was more powerful than they were, I'm sure she could have taken the -4 penalty to deal nonlethal damage and still easily defeat the daughter, instead, in one round, she eviscerates them both.

She really isn't a good person.

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Wex Major posted:

I don't know where the whole Paladin = Jedi and Blackguard = Sith thing came from, but it's not really applicable.

I wasn't imply a connection between the two, just citing a similiar example.

And, I have to disagree with what you said. I think that a Dark God would, like Belkar gain much amusement and satisfaction from corrupting a pure person, and getting them to do their deeds, and bringing them to their side. Sure, there isn't a connection a la the force they can use to naturally corrupt them, but what they can do is give them promises, power, and say the right things, all behind a false face.

If Miko thinks she's working for someone of good intentions, and is given new power to do what she already thinks needs to be done, and becomes corrupt via her actions, and such, I don't see how it could fail to be believable.

Though in saying that, I prefer the redemption option someone mentioned on the previous page. I'd love to see her turn back from the brink, become a sympathetic character, and become, over the course of the comic, an actual humble and likable person, and once more a Paladin.

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CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

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The DnD morality system is fickle, but is also an odd flavor of objective. I'm not sure if doing good things with bad intentions is a good act, but the reverse absolutely is an evil act.

Miko is, again, unflinchingly ridgid. She's always focused on the Lawful while using the Good as an excuse to gain the moral high ground and force her perspective on others. Now that she's been shown that the forces of Good doesn't agree with her vision of the world she just might resort to anything to accomplish them.

And even if her vision of a perfect world is sunshine and candy if she becomes deluded enough to think her pure end justify her evil means she's textbook Lawful Evil, and any outsider worth his salt would take a good crack at manipulating her to his own gain. Even if she thinks she's fighting for acheivable good and peace there is always impurity, always something more she will be unwilling to compromise on (particularly with some demonic lacky whispering into her ear).

Evil is an outside force in DnD. It's an all singing and dancing demonic hoard, with infinite spying eyes and infinite whispering voices, and someone with a mindset like Mikos is a wonderful tool.

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Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

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hermanos posted:

This thread reads like algebra to me, mostly since I know nada about D&D, but the strip is pretty funny.

I'll bring my Player's Handbook to Comic-Con!

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Jan 15, 2006

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Wanderer posted:

I'll bring my Player's Handbook to Comic-Con!

I thought you swore to avoid D&D like the plague.

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Ununnilium
Oct 23, 2006

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Wex Major posted:

It's completely different. The dark side of the force reprograms people to become evil if they aren't already. Jedi don't fall on their own, there is an outside evil force seeking to corrupt them. It's not a natural psychological response to power, it's a side-effect/hazard of opening your mind to the influence of the force.

...who says? I always got the impression that "the dark side of the Force" was just a different way of using the same Force, and that only corrupted people would use it.

Anyway, yeah; basically, doing evil things for a good reason blonde teen blow jobs is evil, from the D&D viewpoint. From the Book of Exalted Deeds:

"Is it acceptable to tell a small lie in order to prevent a minor catastrophe? A large catastrophe? A world-shattering catastrophe?

In the D&D universe, the fundamental answer is no, an evil act is an evil act no matter what good result it may achieve."

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Zereth
Jul 8, 2003



Ununnilium posted:

Anyway, yeah; basically, doing evil things for a good reason donkey punch sex scene is evil, from the D&D viewpoint. From the Book of Exalted Deeds:

"Is it acceptable to tell a small lie in order to prevent a minor catastrophe? A large catastrophe? A world-shattering catastrophe?

In the D&D universe, the fundamental answer is no, an evil act is an evil act no matter what good result it may achieve."
That's a direct quote? That's weird. Wouldn't lying be a _chaotic_ act, not an inherently evil one? I'd think lying to avert the world-shattering catastrophe would be a Chaotic Good act.

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Ununnilium posted:

...who says? I always got the impression that "the dark side of the Force" was just a different way of using the same Force, and that only corrupted people would use it.

Anyway, yeah; basically, doing evil things for a good reason free sex scandals video is evil, from the D&D viewpoint. From the Book of Exalted Deeds:

"Is it acceptable to tell a small lie in order to prevent a minor catastrophe? A large catastrophe? A world-shattering catastrophe?

In the D&D universe, the fundamental answer is no, an evil act is an evil act no matter what good result it may achieve."

To be fair, that is from a book called "The Book of Exalted Deeds" so there is some bias, I think. For example, the Complete Scoundrel would probably say something completely different. I mean, the very existence of the Gray Guard (a Paladin that CAN do evil deeds for a good cause) proves otherwise.

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kicks forts
Feb 19, 2006

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Zereth posted:

That's a direct quote? That's weird. Wouldn't lying be a _chaotic_ act, not an inherently evil one? I'd think lying to avert the world-shattering catastrophe would be a Chaotic Good act.

Personally I think it's being blown out of proportion. What Miko is doing, violent killing, is evil while telling lies to avoid catastrophy would really be chaotic good/neutral.

Regardless it's not as if a good/evil character would not perform a minor evil/good act under pressure in the name of their cause. If it was a regular occurance such as miko then it's evil. If it was big like teleporting a dragon into a city to avert a war, killing thousands of unstatted commoners then it would probably mean an alignment change.


(also I'm pretty sure I just got a weak sass from gothfea)

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Dammit Who?
Aug 30, 2002

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Wex Major posted:

Evil gods want servants who want the same thing they want.

No, evil gods want servants who'll do what the evil gods want. What the servants themselves want is completely irrelevant.

Wex Major posted:

Woah, I'm pretty sure Blackguards have to be ACTUALLY evil. They can't just be psychos/morons that think they are doing the right thing.

I'm pretty sure that "psycho who thinks he's doing the right thing" is a classic Blackguard archetype.

Wex Major posted:

No lawful good god would give a chaotic evil person like Belkar powers, not even if it furthered the cause of law and good in the long run. I can't see why evil gods would act any different.

Why would evil gods not do everything in their power to further their cause, considering they don't have any moral standards or anything to stop them?

I mean, think about it. Miko gets thrown in prison or whatever, still quivering with rage about being surrounded by traitors, and Evil starts whispering in her ear about how it can give her the power to cleanse her city with the blood of the treasonous. It's a practically cliched fall-of-virtue story.

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Apr 17, 2005

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Vorxnyx posted:

To be fair, that is from a book called "The Book of Exalted Deeds" so there is some bias, I think. For example, the Complete Scoundrel would probably say something completely different. I mean, the very existence of the Gray Guard (a Paladin that CAN do evil deeds for a good cause) proves otherwise.

The lie bit is not literally lying, it's can represent any act of evil in the name of good, which is evil. Hell, I think even pallys are allowed to occasionally be dishonest, depending on your code and the severity of the trickery (the gods don't withdraw their services if you tell your wife she looks great in that dress). A great deal of their ''totally rigid'' code is up to the DM's fancy and depends on who you're playing with. They don't all drink tepid water at the bar then return home to tighten their hair shirt for the excess.

A better example would be if you discovered a (certianly) lethal highly infectious disease in one person of a village, and you don't have the capibility to cure it. From a logical perspective killing that person, ideally in a humane way, would be the good thing to do because it saves the village. Regardless of said logic it's still an evil act and if you performed it you'd still have to answer for the sin, and although you might be granted absolution that doesn't make it moral.

Think Batman's ''there's always another way'' bit, regardless of circumstance an evil act is an evil act.

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The book of exalted deeds is pretty old now, and it's hardly the last word on alignment issues. Either way, the alignment system in D&D isn't the bizzare dogmatic nightmare people make it out to be, it's just something wich it's popular to bitch about.

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