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Happy Hippo
Aug 8, 2004

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Batman's Shameful Secret > BSS Derailed Thread: Spider-Island


Spillane posted:

if you read a word of what i posted instead of skimming through it's kind of obvious i read achewood pretty regularly.

speaking of skimming i'm guessing you read achewood much like most people read dostoyevsky in freshmen year on the subway

My post says "like" not "read".

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Spillane
Sep 22, 2009
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yeah because i read something i hate just to yell at people because i am literally a loving volcano

shut
the
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King Nothing
Apr 26, 2005

Ray was on a stool when he glocked the cow.

Spillane posted:

no, for real, this aint a troll.

Yes it is.

Spillane posted:

sporadic updates

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Spillane posted:

repetitive themes, his tendency to experiment and for the most part overindulge with dialogue

You don't like what makes Achewood good. That's fine, but why come in here and tell us about it?

Spillane posted:

would be disastrous from any publishers perspective if he didn't have such an established fanbase and critical acclaim from the first couple of years. I can't see why anyone who just discovered achewood over the last two years would stick around based on the merit of the last two years of strips. it's a godsend that the entire archive is free, so new fans can easily access the entire material without spending a lot of dough which wouldn't exist if he was published from a major distributor from the start, hence why this dude should looooooove self-publishing and you all should too.

The most recent anthology, a New York Times bestseller, is published by Dark Horse Comics so I'm not sure what you're on about. It's somehow wrong for a webcomic author to gain a huge following and make money by...self publishing on the internet, and then self-publishing books/merch to make money and support his family until it takes off and is picked up and marketed by a major publisher? I can't actually tell what your point is, but it sounds like you're mixing the patently obvious with your personal (different from 99% of the people in here) opinions in an attempt to sound smart.

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Spillane
Sep 22, 2009
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King Nothing posted:

Yes it is.

hahaha nope deal with it



first of all this doesn't exclude him from legitimate criticism whether he takes it or not, and second of all france same sex marriage George R.R. Martin????? loving lol it was bad enough you linked notorious childrens author neil gaiman

quote:


You don't like what makes Achewood good. That's fine, but why come in here and tell us about it?

because the author checks in from time to time porn star rachael starr in this very thread and can take criticism however he likes, but just slobbering at his feet for scraps off the table isn't going to help anybody and it makes you look like a loving idiot

quote:

The most recent anthology, a New York Times bestseller, is published by Dark Horse Comics so I'm not sure what you're on about. It's somehow wrong for a webcomic to gain a huge following by...self publishing on the internet? I can't actually tell what your point is.

my whole point is on quality, not self publishing, and a bestseller from a loyal fanbase doesn't mean poo poo other than a whole lot of fans are willing to shill out an extra couple of bucks to put it on their mantles.

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Sep 22, 2009
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King Nothing posted:

The most recent anthology, a New York Times bestseller, is published by Dark Horse Comics so I'm not sure what you're on about. It's somehow wrong for a webcomic author to gain a huge following and make money by...self publishing on the internet, and then self-publishing books/merch to make money and support his family until it takes off and is picked up and marketed by a major publisher? I can't actually tell what your point is, but it sounds like you're mixing the patently obvious with your personal (different from 99% of the people in here) opinions in an attempt to sound smart.

jesus gently caress read my loving post three times, talk to a friend, and then come back and realize I'm talking about quality and how it's simply opportunistic he self published from the start

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Spillane posted:

my whole point is on quality, not self publishing, and a bestseller from a loyal fanbase doesn't mean poo poo other than a whole lot of fans are willing to shill out an extra couple of bucks to put it on their mantles.

So the WRONG people are buying it?

Your argument seems to boil down to,"I don't like Achewood the way it is currently written" and suggests that anyone who shares a different opinion is either wrong or deliberately lying in order to "slobber" for an affectionate pat on the head from Onstad.

There have been TWO storyarcs incorporating Mexican Magical Realism, and a few jokey asides here and there. You also accuse him of going to the well too often in the same sentence as you accuse him of being "too experimental". The "sporadic" updates you complain about are larger and more complex than earlier strips. Not to mention, this is all still being provided free to us, not self published (which to me at least indicates something is being self-made and then self-sold) at a time when all signs indicate that Onstad is busier than normal putting together things to be actually published by a real publisher. Finally, a bestseller IS a bestseller, regardless of why or who is buying it.

None of these things in any way mean you SHOULD like Achewood, but just because you don't, doesn't make everyone else wrong. It just means you don't like it, not that it isn't any good, which it demonstrably is.

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Sep 22, 2009
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here i'll tell it to you on terms you can understand

King Nothing you are a bad poster!
You....are...bad!

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Sep 22, 2009
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Jerusalem posted:

So the WRONG people are buying it?

Your argument seems to boil down to,"I don't like Achewood the way it is currently written" and suggests that anyone who shares a different opinion is either wrong or deliberately lying in order to "slobber" for an affectionate pat on the head from Onstad.

There have been TWO storyarcs incorporating Mexican Magical Realism, and a few jokey asides here and there. You also accuse him of going to the well too often in the same sentence as you accuse him of being "too experimental". The "sporadic" updates you complain about are larger and more complex than earlier strips. Not to mention, this is all still being provided free to us, not self published (which to me at least indicates something is being self-made and then self-sold) at a time when all signs indicate that Onstad is busier than normal putting together things to be actually published by a real publisher. Finally, a bestseller IS a bestseller, regardless of why or who is buying it.

None of these things in any way mean you SHOULD like Achewood, but just because you don't, doesn't make everyone else wrong. It just means you don't like it, not that it isn't any good, which it demonstrably is.


My argument is actually what I posted a page ago, and if you weren't so quick to raise arms for you're pathetic club you'd realize there's nothing untrue to what I said: achewood has become repetitive, overindulgent, and boring. Onstads late updating is annoying and unprofessional but can't be a major concern considering the medium, however the overall quality is not exempt and anyone who can't admit to themselves that achewood hasn't fallen off lately is...well...kind of weird.

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Jack Bandit
Feb 6, 2005
Shit, I'm a free man and I haven't had a conjugal visit in six months

Oh man I logged on and saw 20 new posts and thought some interesting discussion was going on. Not some guy raging with a broken shift key.

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Sep 22, 2009
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it is AMAZING how you all assume I hate achewood because I offer criticism instead of talking about how i want to gently caress teodor for being so right all the time

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Sep 22, 2009
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Jack Bandit posted:

Oh man I logged on and saw 20 new posts and thought some interesting discussion was going on

don't loving count on it

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Jack Bandit
Feb 6, 2005
Shit, I'm a free man and I haven't had a conjugal visit in six months

I'm not assuming anything it's just people complaining about a web comic on the internet becomes white noise after awhile.

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Weedle
May 31, 2006



I have no idea what the gently caress you hoped to accomplish by coming in here and arguing semi-coherently about how Achewood is bad because you don't like it.

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Happy Hippo
Aug 8, 2004

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Batman's Shameful Secret > BSS Derailed Thread: Spider-Island


He gets to post an lf thread about it.

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Spillane
Sep 22, 2009
Probation
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Spillane posted:

it is AMAZING how you all assume I hate achewood because I offer criticism instead of talking about how i want to gently caress teodor for being so right all the time

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Weedle
May 31, 2006



Spillane posted:

here i'll tell it to you on terms you can understand

Spillane you are a bad poster!
You....are...bad!

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BitterAvatar
Jun 19, 2004


You got blood...on my porn world info dogging GODDAMN suit!


Maybe we can all agree that we all have opinions on things and that this is the stupidest loving argument ever?

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withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe

Spillane start an achewood sucks thread if you want to have an intelligent discussion on the topic.

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Shawn
Feb 6, 2003

I yiffed two people at once and all I got was laughed at.

Spillane posted:

don't loving count on it

You have 8 posts on a single thread page talking about how terrible a thing is in a thread dedicated to talking about how awesome that thing is. You need to take a break from posting.

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Sep 22, 2009
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Sep 22, 2009
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BitterAvatar posted:

Maybe we can all agree that we all have opinions on things and that this is the stupidest loving argument ever?

it really is but that's because the only one who offered any semblance of discussion to what I said was Muffin Loaf the rest of you are just sputtering about how 10000 people who like something must be right so therefore gently caress right off smuglook yeah

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Mrs. Badcrumble
Sep 21, 2002


why are people saying spillane posts in laissez's faire when i've never noticed the dude post in there before

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Sep 22, 2009
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you probably haven't seen me because i don't yell about how banging lenin would be tops all the time

though it would be

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Sep 21, 2002


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McGravin
Aug 25, 2004

Tantum via caeli per ferro incendioque est.

Spillane, if you don't like Achewood, maybe you should, I don't know, stop reading Achewood?

Is this a hard concept to figure out?

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Copernic
Sep 16, 2006

...A Champion, who by mettle of his glowing personal charm alone, saved the universe...


withak posted:

Spillane start an achewood sucks thread if you want to have an intelligent discussion on the topic.

I let my fanflow subscription lapse for some of the same reasons Spillane is talking about. Sporadic, infrequent, unexpected updates are not an inevitable component of the creative process. Particularly when the author's method is to promise a time, break that promise, promise a new time, break that promise, and THEN it appears. That's irritating. If a man promises me delicious, free pie at noon, then tells me at noon to come back at 2, then to return at 4, and then again the next morning, it's still a tease, free pie or not, and it's kind of frustrating.

Plus, if a man is squatting on a stage in public, grunting and squeezing, and has me check in every so often to watch him gasp and push, I'm going to be disappointed if he lays just your basic turd. I know that's unfair -- I'm not paying for the turds and what else comes out of there? But with all that loud effort, I'm expecting golden eggs.

Basically what I mean is that Onstad could and should do a better job managing reader expectations.

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Pascallion
Sep 15, 2003
Man, what the fuck, man?

BitterAvatar posted:

Maybe we can all agree that we all have opinions on things and that this is the stupidest loving argument ever?
That's it, you've convinced me!

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Muffin Loaf
Aug 9, 2006

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My statement of "on a steady decline for the past year or two" was over-strong, I'll admit. More like "radically more inconsistent in the past 12-18 months than in the previous several years."

I still think achewood today is head and shoulders above nearly every other comic, it's just that achewood 2-3 years ago was head and shoulders above achewood today.

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Sigma-X
Jun 17, 2005


Copernic posted:

Sporadic, infrequent, unexpected updates are not an inevitable component of the creative process. Particularly when the author's method is to promise a time, break that promise, promise a new time, break that promise, and THEN it appears.

Yeah this is why I don't pay for the fanflow either.

I own a bunch of achewood merch, but the fanflow doesn't appeal to me at all.

Also since the fanflow started it seems like the blogs and such have all died

Spillane, criticizing his release schedule and the fact that Magical Realism is featured more heavily than Roast Beef nowadays is certainly fair game. The experimentation and "overindulgence" of dialogue is pretty much the definition of Achewood, and complaining about that would be like getting pissed that Picasso had lovely perspective or Sinatra didn't have enough drum solos. If he did three panel situation, setup, punchline cartoons all the time in 10 words or less he'd be Garfield.

also maybe you should take your meds.

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BitterAvatar
Jun 19, 2004


You got blood...on my films with explicit sex GODDAMN suit!


Spillane posted:

it really is but that's because the only one who offered any semblance of discussion to what I said was Muffin Loaf the rest of you are just sputtering about how 10000 people who like something must be right so therefore gently caress right off smuglook yeah

Why are you telling me to gently caress off im not even in the argument

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Mar 27, 2004

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I wouldn't care about his opinions if he presented them in a manner best suited for the type of language and syntax Achewood associates itself with. His style and presentation makes it readily apparent that this bear and cat comic is not the type of thing he should even be reading.

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Haschel Cedricson
Jan 4, 2006

Brinkmanship


Muffin Loaf posted:

I still think achewood today is head and shoulders above nearly every other comic,

MS Paint Adventures is just as good as Achewood, but for completely different reasons.

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Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008


Honestly though, it DOES seem really soon for another Magical Realism arc.

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Muffin Loaf
Aug 9, 2006

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Spillane posted:

it really is but that's because the only one who offered any semblance of discussion to what I said was Muffin Loaf the rest of you are just sputtering about how 10000 people who like something must be right so therefore gently caress right off smuglook yeah
I totally understand where you're coming from and honestly agree with a good chunk of what you have to say, but part of the reason people are reacting so negatively is that you're being so vitriolic about it.

I know we don't have to be polite on the internet but you also can't expect a reasoned discussion to grow from such angry seeds.


That being said, yes, Achewood is showing some real cracks lately and I say that not because I hate it but actually because I love it and don't want to see it decline. Furthermore one way to guarantee its decline is for all the fans to gush about everything Chris produces without the slightest inkling of criticism.

Personally I don't give a poo poo about the sporadic update schedule. I am, however, really bothered by the stuff I've already mentioned and the lack of solid standalone strips. The constant launching into continuities and the sudden narrowing of what continuities involve (a small, arbitrary subset of the characters and "[humorous proper adjective] magical realism") are both kind of turning me off.

There is still some real gold coming out, sometimes in strips, often in the fanflow, but then I look back a few years and literally every strip used to be amazing, and it's just not that way anymore. From about 2003-2007, I could count on my hands the number of strips that don't make me laugh out loud. This year, I could count the number that do.

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Dove from Above
Apr 16, 2007

Snowy! Have you thought about psittacosis?

Volga Boatman posted:

I remember reading that many big animation studios have a lot of their work done in NK these days. No idea how reliable that info was though.

There's an interesting graphic novel memoir about it by Guy Delisle called 'Pyongyang.' He's also written graphic novels about working on contract in animation in China, and being the spouse of a Medicins Sans Frontières worker in Burma. He goes to the wackiest places.

Personally I hope that the payoff from this strip is just 'Todd is gone, nobody particularly notices' and something else happens. Todd is the kind of dude who just exits your life at random from time to time.

And Spillane, I think your opinion is valid but people would take it more seriously if you expressed it more coherently.

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Chris Onstad
Mar 31, 2007



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Syrant
Jun 28, 2006
This post is brought to you by: Goat Bouillabaise.

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Okay can we all shut the gently caress up now Onstad has posted in the thread?

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Dec 23, 2003

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McGravin posted:

Spillane, if you don't like Achewood, maybe you should, I don't know, stop reading Achewood?

Is this a hard concept to figure out?

Hey, I'm a huge fan too, and own more than one Achewood book, but this is such a bad, tired argument that could be applied to anything and doesn't really deflect criticism so much as ignore it.

There are things I could bring up about Achewood that I dislike, but I've noticed a trend that whenever it seems like the strip is starting to sag suddenly it turns around with some excellent standalones/storyarc, so I'm far from ready to start bashing it. Still, just because Onstad posts here doesn't mean this is the Achewood Appreciation Station, and I'm sure there's quite enough of that going on at his own forums.

We're all big boys here, legitimate criticism shouldn't be met with calling people trolls or saying "shut the gently caress up unless you're posting about how you love it." Of course, Spillane was getting pretty defensive but he still made some good points brosephs!

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Mar 12, 2004

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Spillane posted:

it is AMAZING how you all assume I hate achewood because I offer criticism instead of talking about how i want to gently caress teodor for being so right all the time

No, retard. But you don't post in this thread, and then come in here making GBS threads on the comic and everyone in the thread, barely taking the time to use punctuation, and scream at everyone because they disagree with your amateurs nude in public opinion and therefore can't read comics, can't read your posts, and are stupid and wrong.

Honestly, the point isn't that you are wrong. The point is.. what the gently caress is your point? This is a thread where people who like achewood talk about achewood. You're coming in here, I guess, to tell us that we shouldn't like it as much? THANKS!

Please go away.

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Happy Hippo
Aug 8, 2004

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Batman's Shameful Secret > BSS Derailed Thread: Spider-Island


I don't feel that the strip is slipping at all. The last few years have seen as many great arcs and quotable lines as before. So what if the Roast Beef/Cartlidge Head arc wasn't a laugh a minute? Neither was the original CH arc. Onstad keeps the strip unpredictable by giving it a turn for the surreal. Every word that a character utters is exactly what that character would say in that situation, and somehow I never see it coming. That's dedication to the craft that you just can't get elsewhere. Believe me, I'm not one to suck up nor would I defend a strip that's jumped the shark. Achewood, now and then, is a great strip.

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