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CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

[modedit, EPW 5/21/2012] This thread used to be in BFC and was focused on the financial aspects of buying a car. With its move to A/T, I'm adding some guidelines:
1. READ THE OP!
2. If you need a car recommendation, tell us what you're looking for in a car. Here is a template for you to fill out:
zac efron is naked Proposed Budget:
hot naked chicks boobs New or Used:
guy eats pussy video Body Style: (e.g. 2 door? 4 door? Compact/Midsize/Fullsize Sedan? Truck? SUV?)
free beasteality porn movies How will you be using the car?: (Do you tow things? Haul more than 5 people on a regular basis? Have a super long commute? How are you going to use this vehicle?
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?)
big booty scarlett porn What aspects are most important to you? (e.g. reliability, cost of ownership/maintenance, import/domestic, MPG, size, style)
3. If you do not live in the U.S. you should probably say so because what's available can vary a lot.
[/modedit]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not an expert on cars. I've never done an engine swap, owned an Alfa Romeo, or drank antifreeze. I love cars, and I love working on cars, and I work as an automotive engineer. But most of the following is based on my personal experience, and I cannot vouch for its accuracy 100%. Feel free to argue or correct me.

I'm obviously not the financial guru some of the other people in this forum are. I realize most cars are just a rapidly depreciating asset, and people with money don't want to put anything more than what they absolutely have to into them. However, cars are most people's second biggest purchase, and its important to know how to get the most out of them. Unfortunately, for a car to last a long time, you need to spend money to maintain it. Sometimes a little bit of maintenance can go a long way.

pussy slip in public Q: Should I buy a new or used car?
A: This really depends on what you want out of a car. It's true that every car depreciates a large amount as soon as you sign your name to the title or lien. This is because its no longer a 'new' car - its 'used' even if you haven't driven it yet.

The benefit of buying a new car is that you know its entire history. It has a full warranty, and you can usually special order special combinations or options to your liking. You also get better financing buying a new car.

The benefit of buying a used car is that it is much cheaper initially. For $20,000, you can buy a base-model midsize car new, or a 3-4 year old luxury car. To lessen the 'risk' of buying a used car, I suggest doing teen girls having babies at least one of the following:
- taking the car to an independent mechanic to be checked out
- making sure the car has complete maintenance and repair records
- buying a car with a remaining factory warranty on it
- buying a 'certified pre-owned' car

claudia black nude fakes Q: How do I make sure I don't get screwed when buying a used car?
A: Knowledge is power. Pick out one or two vehicles that you're interested in. Say, Civics and Corollas. Do a shitload of research on each - visit internet forums, parts websites, edmunds.com, dealerships for repair information and quotes, etc... and find out what the problem areas are. stream porn on phone Every car has problem areas, even Hondas and Toyotas. Sometimes only certain years are affected, sometimes certain options, etc... When you go to look at a car, check the list of problem areas to see if they've been addressed, and either adjust the price accordingly or move on. A good example is the beater Volvo we bought recently. The evap core is known to crack and at a dealership it's a $1500 repair cost. The car we bought had the core replaced last year. We would not have bought it if the evap core hadn't broken yet.

Of course, if you start researching a car and find out its (or at least certain years are) a pile of crap, thats when you back away. For instance, for the first couple of years the Ford Focus was terrible, but once they got everything worked out it was a great car. If all you can afford are the earlier ones, look elsewhere.

If the car has a timing belt, find out if its an interference engine, and if so, find out when the belt was replaced. On 90s-00s GM cars, if you have the 3100 or 3400 engine, find out if the intake manifold gasket has been replaced. If you have a BMW, find out if the cooling system has been replaced. These all tend to be very expensive repairs, and finding a car that has had them done recently can save you a lot of money.

If you want quick information on a particular car, post a thread in AI asking about it. 'Recommend me a car' threads are bannable, but asking for information about a single car or for comparisons between a few cars are encouraged.

black hardcore porn movies Q: What's better - fixing my current car or replacing it with another beater?
A: This is something thats argued over and over. I've always been in favor of fixing your current car as long as it won't cost more than the car is worth. If you have a 30 year old Honda and the head gasket goes, you're probably better off spending the money on a different car. However, for most cars, even if it seems to be nickel and diming you, I'd say just fix it. You'll continue driving a car whose history you know and you'll know it has some new parts.

young women free porn Q: What maintenance should I perform preventatively on my car to make it last?
A: A number of things:

Most importantly is your timing belt, if applicable. If it breaks and you have an intereference engine, you will need major, expensive repairs.

Oil changes are also important, every 5,000 miles on regular oil and probably every 7,500 on synthetic. The argument over regular vs synthetic oils is too in depth for me to go into here. Check your oil quality and quantity every fill-up.

Brakes are also important. Check or have someone check your rotors for scoring and your brake pads for amount of remaining material.

Suspension and steering components are important to check occasionally. Check bushings for tears, shocks for leaks, springs for broken coils, tie rods for play, control arms for play, etc... These will usually fail gradually, but if they start going really bad it quickly becomes a safety issue. I've seen wheels fall off of cars from broken suspension parts.

Filters (air, oil, fuel) should all be replaced at the intervals recommended by the manufacturer. Same with serpentine belts, spark plugs, and anything else your owners manual suggests. I've heard people say to replace oxygen sensors preventatively, but I don't agree with that, since they're usually very expensive and as they go bad you'll usually just see slightly worse fuel economy and maybe slightly less performance.

Most of this maintenance is fairly cheap and easy to do yourself. The cost of stormy daniel porn video not doing this maintenance can be very high and in some cases dangerous.

One of the best things you can to is listen and feel for strange noises and vibrations. Sometimes its nothing, but usually a sudden change like that is indicative of free latin sex movie something not working right, and it should at least be checked out before it can cause more damage.

Most of the engine accessories, drivetrain parts, and electrical system can just wait until something fails.

amy smart sex scence Q: What cars are better to buy, financially, than others?
A: People will always recommend Hondas and Toyotas because they're super-reliable. This is true, but they command a premium used because of this. And they still require regular maintenance, and things do still break on them. I think they're really good because they can last a very long time while being neglected, unlike many other cars.

American cars depreciate a lot initially but you can usually find great deals on 1-2 year old American cars. Quality-wise, it really depends on what you get but they've made great strides recently. I'd say they tend to be about a generation behind their Japanese competition, even today.

Korean cars are also showing a hell of a lot of progress lately, and they're backed by a huge warranty, but this is all very recent. I would stay away from most used Korean cars like they're the plague.

European cars are great if you can work on them yourself. Usually they're built to be serviced easily and cheaply, but dealerships will charge an arm and a leg for everything they can. Higher-end cars will be more complicated and parts will be more expensive, and this is a combination of the lower run quantity of the parts as well as the increased complexity of the parts. Do not buy a ten-year-old seven-series and expect it to be cheap. The car itself may be only $6,000, but new it was $70,000+ and if you have to buy parts for it, their cost will unfortunately reflect the original high cost of the car. This is true for any once-was-expensive-but-now-is-cheap car.

This is all kind of vague stereotyping, and there will always be exceptions.

sex video clips online Q: How can I learn to work on cars?
A: Invest in some basic tools. A socket set, a wrench set, a screwdriver set, some ramps, a Haynes manual for your car, maybe a multimeter. Learn how to change your oil. Then tackle brakes. If something breaks, see if you can fix it yourself first. Most places will still fix your car if you bring them a part you've bought elsewhere. You usually don't have anything to lose by trying something yourself. And with labor rates at at least $60/hour, you can save an sex workers outreach project enormous amount of money by doing things yourself.

Harbor Freight is a fantastic place to buy cheap tools. Quality can be questionable, but if they're your first tools, you can wait to buy those Craftsmen until you know exactly what you're doing.

free professional porn video Q: Can I save money by using 87 octane even though my car wants 93?
A: No. Any money you might save will be offset by the worse fuel economy you'll see. Modern cars retard their timing to make up for the lower octane, but older cars can knock and you can even have some engine damage. The same is true for the inverse: Do not put in a higher octane than what your car recommends. Octane is NOT fuel quality, and putting in a too-high octane will also cause the car to run less efficiently.

dexters lab porn comic Q: What's wrong with buying a Honda for $500 and driving it until it breaks?
A: Sometimes this works, and sometimes it doesn't. It's a big risk. If you've had the car checked out and its in good condition, be my guest. However, I can almost guarantee that no $500 Honda is going to be in very good condition.

First, there's the issue of reliability. The car will likely strand you often. Second, there's the issue of safety. If the car's brakes, suspension, steering, fuel, or lighting systems are compromised, it could very easily become a safety issue not only for you but for other cars on the road. Third, you don't know how much you'll get out of it. You may go 50 miles only to find out it won't go any further. And then you've spent $500 to go 50 miles, which is pretty drat uneconomical.

This is something that I would advise against, even if you know people for whom it has worked. If you need a beater, usually $2000-$3000 can get you something that'll last awhile with minimal maintenance and you can usually sell if after a few years and regain most of that money back, since its depreciated almost fully by that point.

I'll answer any additional questions to the best of my knowledge, and I certainly welcome the input of others. I was asked to start this thread by a number of people in this forum, so hopefully this is helpful to some people or at least gets a healthy argument going here instead of in my own thread.

---The following was not part of the OP---

Dave Ramsey posted:


A car lease is basically renting a car. You pay $400 a month and at the end of the new car lease, you turn it back in. If you want to buy it, you are buying it for what they estimate at the beginning of the lease to be the market value. At the end of the lease, it’s called the residual value. If you pay $400 a month for 60 months, you pay $24,000 before turning it in. The car will not have gone down in value more than that, because the car companies would lose money if it did. When they get the car back, you will have paid them more than the car has depreciated during that time.

During that time, you’re maintaining the car as if you owned it. You’ll get charged for excessive wear and tear, or if you put too many miles on it. If you rent it for $24,000 and it went down $15,000 in value, then it cost me $9,000 to rent this car for this period of time. That is their profit during that time.

Another thing is that the interest rates on a vehicle lease are not disclosed because the Federal Trade Commission has determined that this is not a debt, so there is no federal disclosure involved. Therefore, you have no truth in lending disclosure sheet. The interest rates you get charged are unbelievably high. That’s where you’ll realize you got screwed over.

People get sold automobile leases because they are told that it’s what sophisticated people do. But as it turns out, the car companies make more money on leasing you the car than if you bought the car with cash, according to the National Auto Dealers Association. Broke people think ‘how much down and how much a month’. Rich people think ‘how much’. If you can’t pay cash for a car, then ride a bicycle. But don’t lease a car.
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Bug Boy
May 1, 2005


CornHolio posted:

Octane is NOT fuel quality, and putting in a too-high octane will also cause the car to run less efficiently.

Maybe you (or those geeky type guys/girls) could comment further on this, as I'm sure most people don't understand what this statement means. My first thought when reading this was that the car wouldn't necessarily run less efficiently (except for the small change in the volatility of the fuel) but that the largest financial difference is in spending more for gas with no return on performance/economy.

All in all, I love this thread as a way to divert the endless car debate in your thread to a place where it's not a massive derail. Looking forward to seeing some good topics brought up here for discussion.

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Bug Boy posted:

Maybe you (or those geeky type guys/girls) could comment further on this, as I'm sure most people don't understand what this statement means. My first thought when reading this was that the car wouldn't necessarily run less efficiently (except for the small change in the volatility of the fuel) but that the largest financial difference is in spending more for gas with no return on performance/economy.

All in all, I love this thread as a way to divert the endless car debate in your thread to a place where it's not a massive derail. Looking forward to seeing some good topics brought up here for discussion.

Gas with a higher octane rating is less explosive and is intended for use in cars that use higher compression ratios. With a higher compression ratio lower octane gas has a tendency to explode prematurely, this is called predetonation and is bad. If predetonation or "pinging" is detected by the ECU using something called a knock sensor it will usually reduce power and turn on the check engine light. A car that is designed to run on 87 octane gas will at best have no change with the higher octane fuel, at worst have trouble detonating the higher octane fuel which causes you to waste more expensive fuel.

Your next question may be "what about those additives in the fancy gas?". They don't do anything. Same goes for those fuel additives you can buy in the store, they just lighten your wallet.

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Josh Wow
Feb 28, 2005

We need more beer up here!


I'm currently in a situation where I have to make the decision whether I want to put money into my current car to try and keep it running for a while longer, or to sell it now while it's still running and buy a newer used car.

I'm driving a 90 Honda Accord I've owned for about 7 years now that has major cosmetic damage from a wreck about 5 years ago, and has a bunch of small unimportant poo poo breaking (antenna doesn't go up/down, heater/ac knob broke, electronic locks don't work,etc.) The paint is also peeling because why wash a car with a giant rear end dent in the side?

So this means that the car is running fine but I'd probably be lucky to get $1000 for it on the used market right now to put towards a newer used car. My car just hit 200,000 miles, needs new tires in the next 6 months, and I have a CV joint/axle that needs replaced. So either I sell this car soon or I put money into it to try and keep it running for a while longer.

The only debt I have right now is about $11,000 in student loans and I've been paying over the minimums on those so I should have them paid off within 5 years instead of the 10 if you just make the minimums. My cost of living is ridiculously low since I have cheap rent and am super frugal about nearly everything else, but I make poo poo for money (although I just got a raise!) so I don't have a lot left over at the end of the month.

For a newer used car I'd be looking for something in the $3000-4000 dollar range, and I'd want to take out a loan for it. I've got a 6 month emergency fund saved up but I don't wanna raid that for a car. I've been putting $200 a month into savings for a big expense I'll have in December, so starting in January I could put that money towards car payments, and I've got enough available cash until then to cover payments because of me working 10+ hours of overtime every week. So basically I could make minimum payments til January then throw another $100-200 a month on top of them after that.

I haven't finalized what I want in a car yet, but I'd be looking for something from 95 or newer and right now I'm leaning towards a Subaru or a Volvo. I want a manual transmission and I'm either looking for a 4 door or a station wagon.

Right now I'm leaning towards just throwing the money into my current car and hoping it lasts another two years so I can save up for something else. I'm going to make a decision within the next few days and if I decide to keep it I'm going to get the CV axle/joint replaced right away, get the water pump and timing belt replaced at Thanksgiving when I can have a mechanic our family has used for a long time do it and have him tell me any other preventative stuff I need done, and then buy tires probably early next year. This all together probably would only cost $1000 or less. So this looks like the best option to me, but I'd love an outside perspective on it. It seems a little silly to me to put $1000 into a car worth $1000, but I'm worried about buying a different car then still having to put $1000 into it anyway.

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Doddery Meerkat
Aug 6, 2006

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Josh Wow posted:

I'm currently in a situation where I have to make the decision whether I want to put money into my current car to try and keep it running for a while longer, or to sell it now while it's still running and buy a newer used car.

I'm driving a 90 Honda Accord I've owned for about 7 years now that has major cosmetic damage from a wreck about 5 years ago, and has a bunch of small unimportant poo poo breaking (antenna doesn't go up/down, heater/ac knob broke, electronic locks don't work,etc.) The paint is also peeling because why wash a car with a giant rear end dent in the side?

So this means that the car is running fine but I'd probably be lucky to get $1000 for it on the used market right now to put towards a newer used car. My car just hit 200,000 miles, needs new tires in the next 6 months, and I have a CV joint/axle that needs replaced. So either I sell this car soon or I put money into it to try and keep it running for a while longer.

The only debt I have right now is about $11,000 in student loans and I've been paying over the minimums on those so I should have them paid off within 5 years instead of the 10 if you just make the minimums. My cost of living is ridiculously low since I have cheap rent and am super frugal about nearly everything else, but I make poo poo for money (although I just got a raise!) so I don't have a lot left over at the end of the month.

For a newer used car I'd be looking for something in the $3000-4000 dollar range, and I'd want to take out a loan for it. I've got a 6 month emergency fund saved up but I don't wanna raid that for a car. I've been putting $200 a month into savings for a big expense I'll have in December, so starting in January I could put that money towards car payments, and I've got enough available cash until then to cover payments because of me working 10+ hours of overtime every week. So basically I could make minimum payments til January then throw another $100-200 a month on top of them after that.

I haven't finalized what I want in a car yet, but I'd be looking for something from 95 or newer and right now I'm leaning towards a Subaru or a Volvo. I want a manual transmission and I'm either looking for a 4 door or a station wagon.

Right now I'm leaning towards just throwing the money into my current car and hoping it lasts another two years so I can save up for something else. I'm going to make a decision within the next few days and if I decide to keep it I'm going to get the CV axle/joint replaced right away, get the water pump and timing belt replaced at Thanksgiving when I can have a mechanic our family has used for a long time do it and have him tell me any other preventative stuff I need done, and then buy tires probably early next year. This all together probably would only cost $1000 or less. So this looks like the best option to me, but I'd love an outside perspective on it. It seems a little silly to me to put $1000 into a car worth $1000, but I'm worried about buying a different car then still having to put $1000 into it anyway.

Personally I would never throw that kind of cash into a car that old. You simply can never be sure how much you'll get out of it/ how many other future expenses are waiting around the corner. If you were certain you could get another 50k out of it, sure, but you will be kicking yourself if 10k miles down the line another grand of expenses come up.

I also wouldn't spend much on a 95 volvo or sub, when I could spend a grand or two (6000-8000) more and get a 2002-2004 corolla / civic / camry/ similar with <80k miles. You just get so much more for the price. It will be much easier to get a loan on a car like that as well. Even with great credit it can be hard to get loans on used cars.

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Josh Wow
Feb 28, 2005

We need more beer up here!


Doddery Meerkat posted:

Personally I would never throw that kind of cash into a car that old. You simply can never be sure how much you'll get out of it/ how many other future expenses are waiting around the corner. If you were certain you could get another 50k out of it, sure, but you will be kicking yourself if 10k miles down the line another grand of expenses come up.

I also wouldn't spend much on a 95 volvo or sub, when I could spend a grand or two (6000-8000) more and get a 2002-2004 corolla / civic / camry/ similar with <80k miles. You just get so much more for the price. It will be much easier to get a loan on a car like that as well. Even with great credit it can be hard to get loans on used cars.

Straight up I'm not going to spend $6000+ on a car. I'm just not comfortable spending that kind of cash on my salary. So my choices are what I laid out. I realize I may not get too much more out of my car, but if I were to buy a different older car I have that same kind of uncertainty. I know it's a gamble either way but that's the situation I'm in.

I'm also not really looking at 95s, I'd be looking for something newer than that but I'm still not excluding older models if they're low enough mileage and in really good condition. I mean I saw an 89 volvo sedan that only had 74,000 miles on it on Craigslist. If it was well maintained that could be a really nice and reliable car.

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Hip Hoptimus Prime
Jul 7, 2009

Ask me how I gained back all the weight I lost by eating your pets.


I highly recommend to anyone who comes wandering into this thread to avoid having a car payment, if at all possible. I'm on the hook for mine for another 3 years (if I don't make extra payments at all) and it sucks. Buy what you can for cash unless you're in dire straits.

My old car was needing $300 repairs on a monthly basis for about 5 months, so for that amount of money I could have driven something new and far more reliable. That was my logic for buying my new car. Now, I still have over $8K in debt to pay off from it when I could have kept the old car and been debt free--even with costly repairs factored in I'm sure I wouldn't have had a $300 repair hoang thuy linh porn every month for 3, 4, or 5 years.

I plan on buying my current car until it dies, or until I have enough in cash + trade to replace it with nothing needing to be financed.



Edited to add: Also, when I bought my car, all I had for a down payment was my trade, since I was newly out of college and broke. If you free thong porn videos must finance, at least have the good sense to have a huge down payment so that either your monthly payment is reduced, or you don't have to finance over 60 months to make it affordable like I did.

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mcpringles
Jan 26, 2004



What are your thoughts on getting 30K/45K/60K/etc mile maintenance vs waiting for a problem to fix something? I have a 05 Mazda 3 that I'm taking in next week to get the thermostat controller fixed and I just hit the 60K mark. I was never sure if the mileage maintenance is worth it, or if its just waste of money.

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CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

ZeroAX posted:

What are your thoughts on getting 30K/45K/60K/etc mile maintenance vs waiting for a problem to fix something? I have a 05 Mazda 3 that I'm taking in next week to get the thermostat controller fixed and I just hit the 60K mark. I was never sure if the mileage maintenance is worth it, or if its just waste of money.

It depends on what it is. A lot of it is inspection usually, and you can do that yourself if you know what to look for. Sometimes a chassis lube is called for as well (which couldn't hurt, but its usually not necessary). Full set of filters I'm sure (necessary), belts (necessary), not sure what else.

Josh Wow posted:

Straight up I'm not going to spend $6000+ on a car. I'm just not comfortable spending that kind of cash on my salary. So my choices are what I laid out. I realize I may not get too much more out of my car, but if I were to buy a different older car I have that same kind of uncertainty. I know it's a gamble either way but that's the situation I'm in.

I'm also not really looking at 95s, I'd be looking for something newer than that but I'm still not excluding older models if they're low enough mileage and in really good condition. I mean I saw an 89 volvo sedan that only had 74,000 miles on it on Craigslist. If it was well maintained that could be a really nice and reliable car.

Do you plan on trying to sell your current car when you get a new one, or trade it in? If its the former you might be able to recoup some of the maintenance you put in, if its the latter probably not.

If you're for sure buying another car soon anyway, and can afford it, you might as well just get it now. Otherwise, I'd suggest fixing your current car, as long as everything else checks out OK by the mechanic. Your car could go for another 100k miles easily if it was maintained properly, or it could be at the end of its useful life, its hard to tell without looking at it.

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AbsentMindedWelder
Mar 26, 2003

It must be the fumes.

Since this is BFC, and we are all about money here, let me present 2 important money saving car tips that seem to be lost on probably 75% of the driving public.

1. You are (probably) not a race car driver. You are (probably) not a millionaire who has expensive sports cars who can afford to keep them in cherry condition. So don't drive like it!!!

Accelerating quickly, driving at excessive speeds, breaking hard, going around corners fast are all fun, but they cost you lots of money. They can get you expensive tickets courtesy your local police, cause accidents, jack up insurance rates, and prematurely wear parts on your car causing you more repair bills then necessary. Brakes, suspensions, tires, early engine wear, all take a beating when you drive like Jeff Gordon, and they all cost money.

2. Check your god damned tire pressure on a regular basis (Once a week, or more often if you drive alot.) Low tire pressure causes three major problems (All of which cost you $$$).

A. Tire failure or loss of vehicular control which more often then not will cause an accident.

B. Premature tire wear causing tires to be replaced more frequently*

C. Loss of fuel economy. A few PSI low can cause a surprising drop in fuel economy that can add up quickly without you realizing it.

*Also make sure you tires get rotated frequently, this causes them to wear evenly extending the live of all 4 tires (or 5 IF you have a full size spare**)

**Don't forget to check your spare tire pressure every so often (every couple months is sufficient).

ZeroAX posted:

I was never sure if the mileage maintenance is worth it, or if its just waste of money.
If you want a safe, reliable vehicle that you can count on getting you to work in the morning everyday without issue, then it is most certainly worth every penny. (It also depends with what kind of reliability you need and how long you plan on keeping the vehicle.)

There are also costs people over look. For example, let's say your tie rod ends need to be replaced, which is a normal wear item on any automobile. (This for you non AI people is a joint that connects the steering system to the wheel.) What happens as they wear is that they get just a little bit of play in them. This causes your wheels to be a little bit out of alignment, which will wear your tires prematurely (expensive to replace), and also reduce your gas mileage (expensive commodity over time.)

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Josh Wow
Feb 28, 2005

We need more beer up here!


CornHolio posted:

Do you plan on trying to sell your current car when you get a new one, or trade it in? If its the former you might be able to recoup some of the maintenance you put in, if its the latter probably not.

If you're for sure buying another car soon anyway, and can afford it, you might as well just get it now. Otherwise, I'd suggest fixing your current car, as long as everything else checks out OK by the mechanic. Your car could go for another 100k miles easily if it was maintained properly, or it could be at the end of its useful life, its hard to tell without looking at it.

I'm planning on selling it when I get a new car, pretty much no matter what condition it's in. Whether it's still running or dead and I'm selling it for a parts car I know I'll get more out of a private sale than a trade in.

Like I said I'd rather keep my current car and save up for another car in the meantime, so I probably will just do the repairs/maintenance on my current car and hope it last for a while longer. It hasn't given me any major problems in the time I've owned it and unless something random happens I'm hoping it won't give me any major problems for at least a year or two. The longer my current car lasts the longer I'll have to save up for a different car, which means if it lasts for a while I should have a pretty decent chunk of cash for a different car.

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albedoa
May 3, 2004



Hip Hoptimus Prime posted:

I highly recommend to anyone who comes wandering into this thread to avoid having a car payment, if at all possible.

I highly recommend that everyone explores the option. It sounds like you went into the situation without much guidance or education, but it is often the best choice if done correctly. 60 months of payments that are higher than the repair costs of your slightly less-reliable car isn't the correct way to do it.

Understand the math, know the total costs and the three- or four-year value retention of your vehicle (shoot for three years), shop for the best rates and an institution that is willing to hold your hand. I love and recommend credit unions.

Make a spreadsheet, fudge with the numbers, and see for yourself how much $1000 angelina jolie nude vidoes really affects your monthly payments or how much a quarter percent of a point free sleeping teen video really affects your total interest. Be comfortable with multiple sets of numbers as you shop.

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necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

I'm going to toss in that sometimes leasing a car is actually cheaper than buying it due to worse than average depreciation and cost of maintenance if you're not very savvy at doing your own maintenance. This is common among luxury cars.

I've always thought wife swaping sex stories buying a luxury car meant that you were rich enough to:
1. Take the depreciation without batting an eye
2. Afford the insurance premiums

Buying a used car that's about 1-2 years old is oftentimes the best trade-off in cost and condition you can typically get. However, due to relatively low depreciation of mainstream Japanese cars, it may be possibly worth buying these vehicles ray j nude video new because you'll know how it's been treated until then. I bought my Corolla new in '05 (1.6% APR) because I had bad experiences with used cars, didn't really know wtf I was doing when it comes to maintenance, and had a good bit of money saved up. This was a car I hoped to hang onto for 10+ years was the idea, and it's gone through 4.5 with desirae spencer free porn zero problems (except maybe a serpentine belt that got prematurely worn) at 55k miles. I expect this car to last another 10 years, but before then I think I'll have to junk it because we'll all be on hybrid / electric cars.

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CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

Ultimate Mango posted:

Can we start arguing about the cost/benefit of maintaining parts that are wearing out but not yet totally broken?

(This was a question posed in my other thread recently)

I'll go over some maintenance parts and why they can be put off or why they should be replaced immediately.

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Timing - Always, always, always replace this either when the manufacturer recommends, or sooner if inspection reveals it to be wearing prematurely. On an interference engine, if it breaks it means very costly repairs. On a non-interference engine, it usually still drives the water pump, meaning if the belt breaks and you don't notice your temperature climbing, it could still lead to costly repairs. A timing belt job is usually expensive, but cheap when compared to the alternative usually.

Serpentine/drive belt - As long as this belt is inspected, you can go until it starts failing. Most manufacturers call for this to be replaced at regular intervals, and the belt is so cheap its usually worth it. Most belts are about $15. If they fail (break) they'll leave you stranded unless you keep a spare in your trunk (not a bad idea). Worst case, you'll immediately lose your power steering, which can be dangerous. This is why I would recommend regular inspection (look for cracks or chunks missing on the underside) and replacing it when it needs it.

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These can usually wait until they start making noise, and then for most people the cheapest pads and rotors (hello, Autozone!) are usually good enough. If possible, get the rotors resurfaced because it'll be cheaper and you can extend the life of the rotors that way. However, some rotors cannot be resurfaced. I recommend a brake flush whenever the rotors are removed, because old brake fluid can seize a caliper and that is much more expensive than a brake flush.

hot granny porn pics Steering Components:
If a tie rod fails, it will probably lead to an accident or at the very least to increased tire wear. After probably around 60k on a tie rod, inspect (or have someone inspect) the tie rods for any play, and have them replaced once they start failing.

100 sex positions poster Suspension Components:
Once a bushing or ball joint starts failing, it'll usually take awhile to go completely. In the meantime, depending on what is worn, you'll probably have uneven tire wear, which can be dangerous but not incredibly so. I recommend keeping an eye on failing bushings (they're usually obvious) and start saving up to have them replaced. The part itself usually isn't much at all, but labor on these can be expensive. Many times you can go until the bushing fails completely, because (usually) nothing fill flat out come off, your car will suddenly handle like poo poo and be difficult to drive.

Anecdote: I had a torn trailing arm bushing, and it caused me to go through my rear tires in about 10k miles. Tires are not cheap. Bushings are.

Another anecdote: I need front control arms badly, as both ball joints are bad. I know I can put these off until the spring, and have already put about 8k on them since they were pointed out to me. My car handles noticeably worse, but not dangerously so. That being said, I am keeping a very close eye on just how much play they have.

Shocks can usually be put off until they're really bad. Keep an eye on any leaks and budget accordingly.

Usually damaged parts will cause the car to be unsafe or will cause other components to wear quicker, so if something is broken, from a safety/long-term cost advantage standpoint, always replace badly worn components as soon as possible. However, in terms of short term benefits, some things can be put off longer than others. I can't recommend completely ignoring problems like these, though.

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Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008




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The best way to save money is to not own a car at all. Public transportation is very usable for a lot of people.

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CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

Elephanthead posted:

The best way to save money is to not own a car at all. Public transportation is very usable for a lot of people.

Not necessarily. Having a car allows a lot of people to work better jobs that might not be possible by not having a car.

For some people sure, not everybody.

Besides, public transportation sucks in a lot of places (mine included).

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SlapActionJackson
Jul 27, 2006
I'm comin to getcha

necrobobsledder posted:

I'm going to toss in that sometimes leasing a car is actually cheaper than buying it due to worse than average depreciation and cost of maintenance if you're not very savvy at doing your own maintenance. This is common among luxury cars.


You pay for both depreciation and maintenance whether you own or lease.
With owning, you pay for actual depreciation. With leasing, you pay for lesbian s making out expected depreciation.

Therefore, you come out ahead with leasing if the actual depreciation over the term is worse than the expected depreciation priced into the lease. Car manufacturers used to do this intentionally by screwing with residuals to make leasing more attractive. I don't think anyone dos this any more. They can also do this accidentally by screwing up the models they use to predict residual values, but they're usually pretty good about getting it right, since they have financial incentive to do so - leases are effectively call options in this regard. The buyer can recapture any excess depreciation he paid for by buying the car at the buyout price and selling it at market value, but the seller cannot recover any deficient depreciation he failed to price into the original contract.

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Blinkman987
Jul 10, 2008

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necrobobsledder posted:

However, due to relatively low depreciation of mainstream Japanese cars, it may be possibly worth buying these vehicles 220 volts of porn new because you'll know how it's been treated until then.

There's something to be said about people who buy Toyotas and Hondas who believe they will never have to maintain the car because "it just runs." If a person did buy a used Honda or Toyota, they absolutely cannot skip having the car looked at by a mechanic. Plenty of them get run right into the ground.

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CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

Blinkman987 posted:

There's something to be said about people who buy Toyotas and Hondas who believe they will never have to maintain the car because "it just runs." If a person did buy a used Honda or Toyota, they absolutely cannot skip having the car looked at by a mechanic. Plenty of them get run right into the ground.

Something I'd like to add to this:

One problem with Japanese economy cars (and to an extent, Korean cars) are the demographic that buys them (which probably includes the majority of this forum). They buy them for the appliances they are, as a point A to B vehicle, and do the absolute bare minimum of maintenance. Which is fine for their purposes.

However, second and third owners of these cars have to keep this in mind when buying them. An enthusiast car (say, a Mazda RX-8) will more often than not have been better maintained, than say a Toyota Camry.

Also, I doubt many people here track their car maintenance repairs. Here is a sample of what I have for my BMW (I know its probably too small to read, but it should give you an idea of how complete it is):



10.3 cents per mile (excluding the original cost) over 44k miles, between 131k and 175k odometer readings. Could be better, but could be far worse. That includes one major repair (cooling system) that I stupidly had the dealer repair, and which cost me a good $1500 about a year ago. And a lot of the maintenance I've done will be good for quite awhile, so this will be going steadily down as I accumulate the miles.

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FireMrshlBill
Aug 13, 2006

LEMME SHOW YOU SOMETHING!!!

The spreadsheet is a great idea, I just started one for my car. It made me think of how my car has been over the last 2 years that I have owned it.

A big thing I would like to restate for the 3rd time or so in this thread is that maintenance is not just about money you spend to keep your car running smooth and reliable, its about safety. Saving a few dollars here and there can help keep your wallet filled, but it can also lead to loss of control of your car on the highway and then lead to a totaled car, injury, or death.

There was a news story the other day about people getting into accidents from buying cheap tires from some small mom and pop repair station that turned out to be either used when advertised as new, or new but had been sitting around for 20+ years to dry rot and whatnot. The same thing could happen if you keep driving on bald or rotting tires that you refuse to replace until absolutely necessary.

So weigh maintenance costs vs failure cost (both financially and safety-wise) if you skip the maintenance. Sometimes that $50 part doesn't look so bad.

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CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

washburn085 posted:


There was a news story the other day about people getting into accidents from buying cheap tires from some small mom and pop repair station that turned out to be either used when advertised as new, or new but had been sitting around for 20+ years to dry rot and whatnot. The same thing could happen if you keep driving on bald or rotting tires that you refuse to replace until absolutely necessary.



YES.

Tires are the single most important part of your car. They're all that connect your car to the road. Buy quality tires (brunette girls having sex has an excellent rating system), or this kind of thing can and will happen.

You might think its OK to cheap out on tires, but your mind will quickly change while you're hydroplaning at 60mph into oncoming traffic.

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



CornHolio posted:

YES.

Tires are the single most important part of your car. They're all that connect your car to the road. Buy quality tires (free live nude women has an excellent rating system), or this kind of thing can and will happen.

You might think its OK to cheap out on tires, but your mind will quickly change while you're hydroplaning at 60mph into oncoming traffic.

Brakes are also critical of course. If your disk brakes are squealing it means that they need to be replaced brook shields nude video now.

People that sell suspensions would tell you that suspension is just slightly less critical than tires and brakes, but its really not that big of a deal. You'll have a much more pleasant commute with a good suspension, but it takes quite a bit to affect safety.

As an example of preventative maintenance: new thermostat, $15. New radiator plus installation: $300ish.

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CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

hobbesmaster posted:

Brakes are also critical of course. If your disk brakes are squealing it means that they need to be replaced jennifer dark porn star now.

People that sell suspensions would tell you that suspension is just slightly less critical than tires and brakes, but its really not that big of a deal. You'll have a much more pleasant commute with a good suspension, but it takes quite a bit to affect safety.

As an example of preventative maintenance: new thermostat, $15. New radiator plus installation: $300ish.

Every gas station I know of has a shock absorber model from some company (I don't remember which) that says you should replace your shocks every 30k miles. I always laugh because thats a bit unnecessary. Seriously, most stock shocks can go for free cartoon sex pic at least 100k miles, usually more if you don't care too much about ride quality.

As for squeaky rotors, that could be a few things - they could just need some anti-squeal on the backs of the pads. Or it could be the pads hitting the 'hey think about replacing me!' mark, I think they all have a sonic warning these days.

Now, if its a metal-on-metal squeal, yeah, they need to be replaced now.

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Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


ZeroAX posted:

What are your thoughts on getting 30K/45K/60K/etc mile maintenance vs waiting for a problem to fix something? I have a 05 Mazda 3 that I'm taking in next week to get the thermostat controller fixed and I just hit the 60K mark. I was never sure if the mileage maintenance is worth it, or if its just waste of money.

mile maintenance is a scam. Look in your manual. It will show you what is required at what mileage. on the mazda 3 nothing more than air filters and oil changes are required till 60k miles.

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Don Lapre posted:

mile maintenance is a scam. Look in your manual. It will show you what is required at what mileage. on the mazda 3 nothing more than air filters and oil changes are required till 60k miles.

Keep track of the time span listed in the manual as well.

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Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


hobbesmaster posted:

Keep track of the time span listed in the manual as well.

yep

i remember taking my mazda into the dealership for an oil change at 30k miles, they tried to sell me a $400 30k tuneup that included a coolant flush and change, the tech told me the coolant didn't smell sweet anymore so it needed replacing. Went and bought a $5 coolant tester, loving good as new.

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SlapActionJackson
Jul 27, 2006
I'm comin to getcha

hobbesmaster posted:

Brakes are also critical of course. If your disk brakes are squealing it means that they need to be replaced ex gf nude videos now.

People that sell suspensions would tell you that suspension is just slightly less critical than tires and brakes, but its really not that big of a deal. You'll have a much more pleasant commute with a good suspension, but it takes quite a bit to affect safety.

Disc brakes that are squealing need to be looked at by someone who knows brakes. Squealing might mean they just need more anti-squeal applied to the pads, or it might mean it's time to replace them.

I agree that suspensions are more degredation-tolerant than tires or brakes, but suspensions play an important role in handling and safety, too. It's responsible for keeping the tires in good contact with the road.

Here's a quick test for shock absorbers: at each corner of the vehicle, press down with all your weight, then release suddenly and watch the body of the car. Ideally, it will rise back to its resting position and stop. It's acceptable to overshoot slightly, and stop on the way back down. Any more bouncing than that and it's time to replace the shocks/struts.

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NJ Deac
Apr 6, 2006


CornHolio posted:

free nude straight men Belts:
Timing - Always, always, always replace this either when the manufacturer recommends, or sooner if inspection reveals it to be wearing prematurely. On an interference engine, if it breaks it means very costly repairs. On a non-interference engine, it usually still drives the water pump, meaning if the belt breaks and you don't notice your temperature climbing, it could still lead to costly repairs. A timing belt job is usually expensive, but cheap when compared to the alternative usually.

My car has a timing chain instead of a timing belt. I've done a bit of research and the manufacturer indicates it should last "for the lifetime of the engine." More like, the engine will last for the lifetime of the chain because if I lose the chain, there's a good chance I lose the engine. Does this mean I can safely keep the original chain forever as long as there are no problems? Are there wear indicators my mechanic can check for, or is there a danger that one day the chain will just give out and take my engine with it without warning?

I've started to worry a bit about this as I'm at around 130k miles and this is where I'd normally consider having the belt replaced. Is there a general rule on chains vs. belts, or does it vary from manufacturer to manufacturer? (Talking about a 2003 4.6 V8 Mustang GT in this specific case, if it's relevant)

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Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


as long as you keep oil in your car the timing chain should last indefinately

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LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

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The one thing missing from all the maintenance talk here is fluids. They at least need to be checked for correct level. In many cases, changing the fluid at a different interval than recommended will have a huge impact on the life of the car. For example, anyone with an '01 and newer automatic Volvo who doesn't change their transmission oil can expect it to take a poo poo around 100k miles. People who change it at a 30k interval have been able to squeeze 200k or more out of the original tranny. Coolant is another one that will sneak up on you. It may seem to be working fine, but you won't know that you should have changed it more often until it's way too late. It's relatively easy to change, and cheap enough that it's dumb not to do it.

NJ Deac posted:

My car has a timing chain instead of a timing belt. I've done a bit of research and the manufacturer indicates it should last "for the lifetime of the engine." More like, the engine will last for the lifetime of the chain because if I lose the chain, there's a good chance I lose the engine. Does this mean I can safely keep the original chain forever as long as there are no problems? Are there wear indicators my mechanic can check for, or is there a danger that one day the chain will just give out and take my engine with it without warning?

I've started to worry a bit about this as I'm at around 130k miles and this is where I'd normally consider having the belt replaced. Is there a general rule on chains vs. belts, or does it vary from manufacturer to manufacturer? (Talking about a 2003 4.6 V8 Mustang GT in this specific case, if it's relevant)

Chains are lubed by engine oil and definitely are supposed to last the life of the motor, but in some cases they have tensioners or guides that wear out and need replacing, or it can skip a tooth. In your case it's a standard V8 motor, which should be super easy for you to research in google as to whether or not there are any timing chain issues.

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CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

LloydDobler posted:

Chains are lubed by engine oil and definitely are supposed to last the life of the motor, but in some cases they have tensioners or guides that wear out and need replacing, or it can skip a tooth. In your case it's a standard V8 motor, which should be super easy for you to research in google as to whether or not there are any timing chain issues.

Also, chains can stretch a little bit over time. I think they start to emit a slight 'ticking' when this happens but I could be wrong. I wouldn't worry about timing chain issues until 200k+ myself, but every car is a little different.

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AbsentMindedWelder
Mar 26, 2003

It must be the fumes.

I agree with the sentiment that the maintenance schedule in the owners manual is what you should mainly go by. Inspection by the trained people at regular intervals is also necessary to spot the things that are not part of the factory schedule that need attention. This is where you have to really find a mechanic you can trust (or do your own work.)

Speaking about coolants, certain cars will require this to be changed sooner then the factory schedule would suggest. A good example is my last car, a 93 Mazda MX6. In the engine somewhere there is a coolant path that is lined with a metal (I forget which one exactly) that is not aluminum. Because of the 2 dissimilar metals, electrolysis occurs, which breaks the coolant down prematurely, which causes it to turn acidic.

I don't have to tell you what acidic coolant can do to coolant system parts.

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LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

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I have a 2001 VW Jetta that I've owned for a while. I've done all the maintance and am approchaing 150K miles. It still drives great, but now I'm unsure what more I need to do to the car. What should be my strategy? I've put maybe $2,000 in repairs since I bought it 6 years ago, and average about 22K a year. How many miles can I resonably expect out of the car?

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Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


LorneReams posted:

I have a 2001 VW Jetta that I've owned for a while. I've done all the maintance and am approchaing 150K miles. It still drives great, but now I'm unsure what more I need to do to the car. What should be my strategy? I've put maybe $2,000 in repairs since I bought it 6 years ago, and average about 22K a year. How many miles can I resonably expect out of the car?

read your manual, it should have the maintenance schedule.

other than that, fix what breaks, the car will last as long as it lasts

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LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

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Don Lapre posted:

read your manual, it should have the maintenance schedule.

other than that, fix what breaks, the car will last as long as it lasts

The manual stops at 150K.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

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LorneReams posted:

The manual stops at 150K.

poo poo it's just like the Mayan calendar and 2012, your car is doomed!

From here you might as well start from 0 miles and follow the schedule again.

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Mar 17, 2007

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LorneReams posted:

The manual stops at 150K.

Does that mean that they never expected the car to last that long?

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Vladimir Putin posted:

Does that mean that they never expected the car to last that long?

Well, my Accord's maintenance schedule stops at 120k. For my Accord they probably should have just printed something like this:
Every 6k mi - oil change, filter change, rotate tires. (Every 3k with severe conditions)
Every 30k mi - inspect such and such.
Every 60k mi - 30k service plus replace ATF
Every 90k (105k?) - replace timing belt/water pump

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Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


hobbesmaster posted:


Every 60k mi - 30k service plus replace ATF


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Sep 19, 2002



Don Lapre posted:

?!?

Automatic Transmission Fluid is the only thing I could think of with that acronym.

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