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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


LorneReams posted:

The manual stops at 150K.

poo poo it's just like the Mayan calendar and 2012, your car is doomed!

From here you might as well start from 0 miles and follow the schedule again.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Zhentar posted:

If you have RWD, then you can get most of the benefit with just 2 snow tires, which can make things a lot easier to swallow.
Nobody in AI would recommend this, as your grip levels would be vastly different, no matter where you mounted the snow tires. In the front, especially in e: an RWD car, you stand the chance of snap steering your car into a spin. In the rear, you will lose grip and possibly slide straight when going around a turn.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Zhentar posted:

Losing grip and sliding straight is also what can happen if you don't have snow tires at all
With less grip on all corners, people will (or should) drive at the car's lower limits. When they can get up and accelerate faster thanks to their snow tires, they can be misled by the perceived amount of grip.

quote:

and then you'll still have two wheels that can brake.
having different brake bias can catch people by surprise

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


hobbesmaster posted:

Unless you know, their car literally can't move.

Yeah, even among non-snow tires, grip levels are obviously not equal. A good all season tire might be fine, but a lovely, bald all season will be no good. Again, of all the things you don't want to skimp on, tires is at the top.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Vomik posted:

but often enough it is option 3 and a new car is a much better deal. ... And since option 3 is more common

I don't know of any studies that show that in the one to two year market, more than half the cars are huge lemons and basketcases.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


dreesemonkey posted:

I wouldn't look on autotrader for cheap cars, craigslist is where you'd go for cheap cars.

you better not bet one of those people that told CH to list his Mini on Autotrader then <:>
Seriously though, CL over a wider net is probably better for finding a cheap car in a short time. You can use tools like Crazedlist to sweep over several area CLs at once, if you're willing to go far for your beater. Ex:
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(you have to set some option in FF to get that to work)
If it means getting a good deal on the car, putting in the extra search effort is obviously worth it.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Harry posted:

unlike the "great" cars with "only a few problems" you get from craigslist.

Maybe this hasn't been emphasized enough, but to buy a good car cheap, you have to arm yourself with knowledge. No, you don't have to be a shadetree mechanic, but you should be well versed with the general workings of all aspects of a car and familiar with specific issues of the model you're looking at buying.

Basically, you should never be taking the seller's word for anything. Inspect the car yourself and crosscheck the maintenance records against known problems for the model.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Harry posted:

Yeah. I'm just trying to stop this mantra I've been seeing here where every $4000 car works 100% fine and it's easy to find and buy one off of CL and never have a major repair. Cars with over 130k miles can run great if they're well maintained, but let's face it that's not the norm.

Yeah. That point is so important, it should be edited into the OP.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


KarmaCandy posted:

I'm a girl with no propensity or interest in fixing cars so I'm honestly probably not down for that.
This shouldn't necessarily be coupled with not wanting to learn and know more about cars. Your car is in the shop and the mechanic says your exhaust is shot and you need a complete new one welded in -- would you know if you're getting taken?

quote:

is it better to get something like a new Camry, get a used Camry and save the rest of the money or would it be at all worth it to move up a level and get a used vehicle that is a bit above the standard Camry/Accord?

There's 2 independent factors here:
- do you want / need to spend most of that money on a car? If not, it's pointless to minimax what you can get for your full budget.
- what do you rank as your priorities in a car?
All the AI posters rank performance and driving feel pretty high compared to the average car buyer. Your tastes and preferences are completely valid and subjective, but you have to be honest with yourself on what you want in the car.

Take your question above -- picture a run of the mill Camry. When you think of a car a step above it, what features are coming into play? Leather interior? More comfortable seats? More powerful engine? All wheel drive? A ride that is softer/sharper/whatever? If you can't decisively pick those things out, then maybe the Camry my free retro porn is right for you. Or, maybe you have to go out and drive a ton of cars.

Anyways, my point is, no one can tell you what the 3-year old best buy alternative to a brand new Camry is. It depends entirely on what you're expecting in the car. It is possible that you like something like an Audi A6. At that point, you'll be warned about maintenance and reliability issues. It's a stereotype but it's also true. Do your homework and decide if paying less to buy is worth an extra hit over the years.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


KarmaCandy posted:

As far as what I care about - I mainly want a car that's reliable, will last, gets decent gas mileage and hopefully has cheap-ish repairs. I have preferences but they're not that important - rounded over boxy, leather over fabric, trunk space over no trunk space, smaller rather than larger...

sounds like a Toyota Matrix would work for you. Even the all out AWD, top spec engine version would be nowhere near your budget. And it's pretty much a Corolla underneath, so the reliability will be there. In the same vein as the Corolla/Prizm trick, there's the Pontiac Vibe to the Matrix, which can save you a couple thousand. The Vibe GT is probably the car I'd recommend to some car nonenthusiast friend if they asked me for a practical near new car.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


CornHolio posted:

Also, say what you will about early automobiles, but I certainly wouldn't trust a modern car to hot lesbians stripping naked

Tons of cars have advertised that their development testing has included nonstop (except for fueling and tire changes) running equivalent to going around the world.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


CornHolio posted:

Yeah, but 'equivalent to going around the world' and 'actually driving through loving Siberia before roads were even hardly invented' are kind of different.

I'm pretty sure modern cars would have no problems with the latter, either.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


well once again audience, we've successfully tricked CH into talking about cars in BFC.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Two Finger posted:

That was hardly stock, though.

A modern truck could do as well as a 60hp, 5000 lb car, I'm positive. Provided it could get cheats like this "At one point the Thomas covered only 60 miles in 4 grueling days, using teams of horses and enormous human effort to move ahead."

Buy an SVT Raptor, you're probably good to go.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


There is such a thing as really bad gasoline. Places that let the gasoline sit forever (sometimes because there isn't enough business to run through shipments regularly) can introduce water or a tiny bit of sediment into the gasoline. But in general, using the hotly advertised magic Shell gasolines don't have a positive maintenance effect on the engine.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


SuperCaptainJ posted:

How many miles do you drive a year?

He says <10k, which gives him a 2k buffer.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


notMordecai posted:

Figured! Wish me luck.

This is kind of important because if I can't get this car I will have to drop out of this internship.

If you can borrow $1000 from your folks and put in about $1500 of your own money, you can definitely get a car that will last you the internship with no problems, that you can sell at the end to recoup some of the cost. Scrounge Craigslist and ask in the AI regular question thread which has the best chance.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Maggot Monster posted:

This has nothing to do with owning a car but today my wife paid $700 to rent a loving subaru outback for one week. Since crashing the car it's like she's single handedly trying to destroy our finances.

She accepted the first insurance offer without even speaking to me (it was $400 less than the clean retail which I imagine is pretty good) and now this. She managed to get them to drop it to $225 if she returns it sunday. Nothing like a two day rental for $225 to really help me enjoy the weekend. She's killing me.

Was it that she had no idea what typical rental rates are?

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


moana posted:

- I noticed that there were some hybrids that seemed comparably priced to the other models I was looking at. I know cw when they first came out was that they were overpriced, not really that much better mpg-wise, and cost more just to give you a warm fuzzy feeling. What're your thoughts on hybrid in general, or specific models?

You should test drive the previous generation Prius. If you like the ergonomics, hatch space, and ride, it's a decent option vs the markup of a new car. That it can get 40mpg in the city pretty easily is a bonus, but ultimately not a big factor. It can't do that well if you speed along on the highway for miles. I wouldn't recommend getting a hybrid solely for fuel economy, because that usually doesn't pan out for people.

But yeah, if you like Civics, you should look at used ones. Or maybe consider a new Kia Forte? It's pretty much the new Korea Civic clone, and not bad by most accounts.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


CornHolio posted:

Apart from what I've read, I know very little about hybrids. I'm pretty sure that if anything drivetrain-wise need work, it's dealer-only though. I highly doubt non-dealer mechanics have had any experience working on hybrids yet.

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong)

I've seen one reputable shop in the Boston area advertise full service for all Japanese hybrids. They claim to be fully certified to work on all Japanese makes, so I guess they invested in the obvious gap.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


You might ask in AI. There's at least 2 guys who deal with both sides of an auction. Not sure how easy it is to hook up with a licensed dealer who'd be willing to flip a car to you for cheap.

e: oop, sorry a bit late

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Leperflesh posted:

There are, or have been in the past, tax rebates for hybrid cars. Surely that has to be taken into account when comparing prices?
I don't know of any such discounts that exist any more. Hybrids are too well established at this point.

Harry posted:

I think he meant this pretty obvious just based on percentages.

It is, which is why fuel economy isn't marketed this way in the US.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


CornHolio posted:

if you equate significance with amount of change, the significance of each would be exactly equal.


A delta on this derived metric is not a linear quantity, so it's not really an equally significant amount of change.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


You should change your link to the OP of that thread to give better context.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Faceless Clock posted:

quote:

that there is a sweet spot of price versus reliability

I don't know what to say about this because it basically sounds like an old wives tale. It sounds like something which might be true, but there is no actual evidence to support it.
Cars' reliability can be modeled roughly with a bathtub curve for frequency of problems. Additionally, they all tend to follow a well defined resale depreciation curve.
So the sweet spot would be when the initial plummet of depreciation has passed and any time during the middle of the bathtub curve. My guess is something like 3 years is a good place.

Faceless Clock posted:

Besides, have you actually looked at car prices? You're not going to get much of a new car for $15k.

There are many completely serviceable $15k vehicles for people looking to buy new and getting the benefit of a warranty.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Faceless Clock posted:

Another thinks we should be happy with the "perfectly serviceable" vehicles we can buy for 15k.

Nor do they always buy 15k vehicles. Nor should they, if they can afford to purchase a more attractive vehicle or afford to purchase vehicles more often.

Speaking to artard's situation, yes he could probably finance (or lease) a new car for more than $15k. But you were the one who brought up the $15k threshold. From a BFC perspective, it isn't good advice to say you can't buy much of a new car for $15k. That's basically giving zaurg's wife the go ahead to think bigger than her budget.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Was it earlier in this thread that someone recommended that people create their own warranty? In the following way -- with the money you were going to use to buy the warranty, open a savings account. The hope is that it'll match or heavily cover the cost of any unexpected issues. It might not pay out as well, but you don't have to negotiate repair issues with 3rd party warranty slime.

Congrats on the Forte. I think it'll be just as good as a Civic and cheaper. Looks better, too, if incredibly derivative.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


The Car and Driver review is pretty informative:
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"Besides $1700 or $1800 in their pockets, those who opt for the Kia will find Bluetooth phone connectivity with steering-wheel controls, Sirius satellite radio, USB and auxiliary input jacks, four-wheel disc brakes, and stability control among the standard features. These items are extra-cost options or require jumping to a higher trim on most competitors, if they’re available at all. For example, stability control is standard only on the top-spec Corolla, and the Civic requires you to get navigation if you want satellite radio."

"Believe it or not, we actually were more satisfied with an EX [the 150hp 2.0] with a four-speed automatic. This segment isn’t about barn burning; it’s about inexpensive, comfortable, roomy, inoffensive, and—increasingly—stylish cars, and those are precisely the Forte’s strengths. With the smaller engine and the automatic gearbox, the Forte didn’t invite aggressive driving, but that’s all the better to enjoy the spacious and well-appointed interior and airy greenhouse."

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


alreadybeen posted:

Doing all of your own repairs also has the tremendous cost of time.

I can look up a few mechanics to get some quotes, drop my car off, and swing later and pick it up. I spent maybe a little over an hour dealing with the whole problem rather than it being a day long project.

If working on cars is something you really enjoy doing then by all means go ahead and do it and I'm glad it helps you save a bundle, but it's really not practical advice for most people.

Everybody's time is worth different amounts of money. A window regulator messed up in my gf's Saab. A local shop would have charged 2 hours of labor and over a hundred for the whole regulator. I spend an hour researching the problem (having never touched a Saab before) and ordered the little plastic roller I needed to fix the issue for $5. And then an hour on a weekend to replace the thing.

Sure, it cost me quite a bit of my time, but it certainly offset the money paid to a shop for labor-intense body work. I think my argument is that, if you are sufficiently shrewd, there are certain things that people with even basic tools can fix successfully, if they are willing.

e: fwiw, I didn't enjoy the repair much, but I love saving money, so I still prefered the experience overall.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


$5k and $1k a year (at the very very most) for maintenance will get you years of reliability from a variety of several year old economy cars.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


corded ware culture posted:

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've done some preliminary looking around and research. There are a ton of turn of the century Camrys around South Florida but most of them in my price range have 90-120k miles on them. For the same price I'm seeing American cars (i.e. Focus) four or five years newer with 30-50k fewer miles on them. Will the Camry really be a better value assuming both cars are maintained properly?

In this case I would go with the Focus, though the Camry is probably a bit bigger. I go with the Focus because I'm pretty familiar with the model years and the various small problems that Focuses have. That kind of anticipation and awareness of issues can help you budget maintenance and give you peace of mind.
A quick example: B-engine Saabs and VR6 VWs tend to have ignition issues. In both cases, the fix for a no-start condition is a ~$100 part that you can carry around in your trunk and replace with very basic tools in 10 minutes, if you know the issue and are prepared. This can save you a couple hundred in diagnosis, shop labor, and even a tow. Note that I'm not advocating you get one of those cars, as their reliability pales compared to what we're recommending. I'm just illustrating what a bit of reading can get you prepared for.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Seems like a pretty decent deal, for being 3k under invoice. A comparabale Corolla or Civic would be hard to get at that price, so I think you certainly didn't get screwed.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


The_Fuzzinator posted:

I'm trying to decide on a new car, between the Ford fiesta and Honda fit. I currently am driving a '95 VW Jetta with ~105k miles on it that has a problem that my family mechanic basically told me it would be more to fix it than the car is worth. the Jetta i drive now is as far as i can tell on it's last legs due to the problems it's having it won't be able to pass inspection. is there anything that anyone has heard about either car? I've been having trouble finding many complaints about either car.

The Fiesta doesn't seem to have too many consumer reviews from Britain, either, which is surprising. I only found these:
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There shouldn't be too many problems, as even though it is new for the US, it isn't new worldwide, which means major problems would have been addressed by now.

Any chance you'd consider a 1-year old Fit? The whole financial bit and all...

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


The_Fuzzinator posted:

i'd be looking at ~15k on a fiesta, or 12k on the versa. as much as i like the fiesta a lot more than the versa, the price is hard to beat, while the only things i'm seeing that i'd be losing out on between the two is the versa doesn't have heated seats and does not look as good as the fiesta to me. probably going to go out to test drive some soon

It's not worth the 3k difference in price to most people, but the Fiesta has SYNC, which is one of the best audio/communication control systems out there.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


The_Fuzzinator posted:

I've given though to getting a "slightly used" 2010 or 2009, i'm not worried about depreciation of the car because i plan on driving it for quite a while.

If that's the case, you only stand to save more by getting a used one and running it as long as you can.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Leperflesh posted:

Yeah, that's a good point. Still seems a decent price for an unused car, but I haven't gone and looked for used 2010 models to compare (there probably aren't all that many out there).

It doesn't seem like a good deal to me, but only because I heard that they were going for $10k in the worst of the recession. Not sure how much pricing recovered on small cars since then.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Ridonkulous posted:

I'm really just getting tired of driving an SUV.
I'm sorry if I tried to rationalize, but thanks for the advice.

But a smallish truck will have virtually the same ride quality as the body-on-frame Xterra?

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


CH, your post would have been strengthened if you didn't sperg about how much you want a 242 motor. Certainly they're cool, but I think there's a lot of want and not need bleeding through.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


NOTinuyasha posted:

Compared to the Sonata, the Jetta actually comes out as the cheaper, lower quality driving appliance and that isn't right at all.

Well, if the Jetta is genuinely cheaper, that's ok. There's no reason to take established repuations too seriously.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Leperflesh posted:

Arzakon's issue with the transmission would be something of concern, except that I think transmission/clutch (especially manual) is highly dependent on driving habits, and a clutch that starts to slip at 90k is not that unusual for any car.

my1999gsr has said that lots of the first DSG trannies have been breaking, and the official VW policy to dealerships doing the warranty repairs is to replace the whole unit because a teardown is no longer worth the trouble. Obviously that's one tranny option you have and VW has undoubtedly tried to fix it, but VWs are far from bulletproof. Of course even cars like a Honda Civic can be prone to serious model issues, like the 1.9L block cracking.

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