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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

No, I know what you mean. Archaeology is the same way, in a lot of respects. Surveying up and down the same 120-mile linear thing in southeast Texas in August gets me going the way India and Lonely Planet does some people. What I think about is that I can't see myself working a "home every night" kind of job the rest of my life like my parents did.

I like bumfuck nowhere, I like routine, and I like the ritualized irregular Wal-Mart trip. I want more technical in my life, and more work. Hell, I even liked the safety man they sent down from corporate on that Texas job. Two months between Point Boring and Uglyville is travelling the world to me. I want to be able to grow professionally without the slog through humanities academia that are the Masters and PhD stumbling blocks.

Conclusion: my talking is too flowery.

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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Backing up what FrozenVent said - don't look at all my pictures of me getting drunk in Mexico and think 'wow, that looks awesome!' He's dead right about the life being routine - that suits some people such as myself, doesn't suit others. Are you interested in Deck or Engine more? I can't say poo poo about Deck but Engine is a lot of fun if you're that way inclined.
We did have someone from the US in here a little while ago, if they come back they'll be able to give you more specific information on the way things are handled over there.
But basically, find a maritime college (I think one's in Maine?), study and work your rear end off, get your license, earn money.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

I'd say Deck more fits my inclinations but I don't really know enough to be 100%. I think you are spot on about routine, one thing that's really been fulfilling to me is the ability to set up a routine and follow it under lovely circumstances in lovely locales, and sneak in some drunk in Mexico time once or twice a year to give the folks back home an anecdote. Would you say it's routine but not always dead dull? Like having to adapt the necessary tasks to changing circumstances type work, but sometimes the circumstances don't change for a few months and thats when it drags? I feel like there is a line between routine, and soul-crushing boredom, but I'm not sure where it is.

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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It's routine but important work which is why I like it. I struggled with office jobs because I always felt like the work I was doing wasn't actually worth anything.
Sure, on a ship my work might be routine, but it's important stuff - wiping up an oil leak can help prevent the spread of fire. Noticing a higher temperature can help prevent a bearing burning out. Smelling something unusual can prevent a big problem.
See where I'm coming from?

But then there are times when you're sitting in the bunker break for hours on end watching a pipe, which sucks balls. How old are you?
What have you done previously?
Any seagoing experience at all?

You've got a few options as well - you can look at cruise ships which is what I'm working on at the moment, cargo/container/tanker vessels which I believe FrozenVent works on, or Offshore supply, which my brother does.
The money is the lowest on cruises, but there are women. I believe offshore pays the best but the work can be tough.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Two Finger posted:

It's routine but important work which is why I like it. I struggled with office jobs because I always felt like the work I was doing wasn't actually worth anything.
Sure, on a ship my work might be routine, but it's important stuff - wiping up an oil leak can help prevent the spread of fire. Noticing a higher temperature can help prevent a bearing burning out. Smelling something unusual can prevent a big problem.
See where I'm coming from?

But then there are times when you're sitting in the bunker break for hours on end watching a pipe, which sucks balls. How old are you?
What have you done previously?
Any seagoing experience at all?

I definitely see where you're coming from. I think you've answered in one stroke the essential difference between routine and soul-crushing. I would gladly dig a 30cm wide by 1m deep hole, every 60m, for miles, and find nothing, since it is important work to preserve history while letting present enterprises advance.

I'm 23, got my degree in archaeology 2 years ago and have been working as an archaeology field tech, mostly on pipeline projects, since then, but the last 6 months the work has just died and there is not much room to advance in the field. Between that and the low pay I want out, and considering a masters in this (necessary to advance beyond tech) can take more than 4 years I am very open to 4-year type programs.

No seagoing experience myself, some of my relatives were in the Navy and liked it but I don't think the military is for me (I've found something really rewarding in being a part of these big civilian infrastructure enterprises like pipelines and interstates).

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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Well, the sea is not going anywhere anytime soon, that's for sure. The majority of the world's transport is done by sea and that is unlikely to ever change, so you aren't wrong about it being a growth industry.
I was 23 when I started studying marine engineering, and although my circumstances were different it was the best decision I've ever made.

If you can, do your cadetship on cruise ships. It's a good time.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Hey cool, Great Lakes Maritime Academy has a 3-year licensing program for nontraditional students who already have a bachelors degree, that fits my situation perfectly. Going to have to read up more about that, this sounds like an industry I would really be excited to work in.

edit: hey, it looks like my uncorrected vision would need a waiver, it's worse than 20/200. It corrects to better than 20/20 and I have been wearing soft contacts since I was a kid. Anyone know if they actually grant these bad boys?

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Officially started my job search as of 10:30 this morning. Got a response at 10:45.

This is the best thing about this job.

Edit: It's 1130 and I have an assignement.

Edit 2: In the interest of honnesty, it's with a company I've worked with before, so it's not like I had to do the whole resume / interview ringamarole.

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skinner
Oct 22, 2003



I'm in a similar situation as shovelbum and thinking about either getting a job with a cruise line (American Cruise Line, specifically) as a deckhand or going to Maine Maritime and going deck. I've got a Bachelors that's doing me nothing and currently work as a deckhand on an 80 foot landing craft. I plan on getting my 100-ton Masters license relatively soon but there's just not much room for advancement around here. I could also do Maine Maritime for about $7000 a year as an in-state student.

Is it worth it to go further into debt for another degree? Or would it be better to start as a deckhand and work up from there? I know that takes significantly more time and effort. Talking to a deckhand who works on the vessel I'd try to work on it seems like alright work and good pay.

Also, this ship is near-coastal so I guess that would disqualify me from 3rd Mate Unlimited if I went the deckhand route?

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Fish Shalami
Feb 6, 2005

What is shalami?

Third Assistant Engineer from Kings Point checking in. I work in the M.E.B.A Union. Just got off my last ship yesterday actually. Can answer any questions people might have about going to USMMA, being the union, or shipping out. I've shipped foreign and US flag too.

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Aug 4, 2007


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FrozenVent posted:

Edit: It's 1130 and I have an assignement.

Enjoy, mate. What sort of route are you doing, do you know?

Hey Fish Shalami, I've heard words that American licenses are not recognised internationally and vice versa. Any truth to that?

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Commoners
Apr 25, 2007

Sometimes you reach a stalemate. Sometimes you get magic horses.

So it's kind of a dead horse about former naval personnel who don't have deck experience and don't have a technical degree, but what about those who do have it?

I'm going through my enlistment as an electrical technician, which means I work on navigational radar systems and the different communications gear. Chances are that I'll end up working on the weatherdeck as well just by the nature of frigates and destroyers.

Would they pretty much overlook any of that stuff and tell me to suck it up and use my MGIB and go get a real degree at one of their academies, or would six years of fixing things be able to land me at least in a competitive position as far as getting hired goes?

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Fish Shalami
Feb 6, 2005

What is shalami?

Two Finger posted:

Enjoy, mate. What sort of route are you doing, do you know?

Hey Fish Shalami, I've heard words that American licenses are not recognised internationally and vice versa. Any truth to that?

Yes and no. I worked on some Belgium flagged LNG ships and they accepted my US license and gave me an equivalent Belgium one. So now I have a Belgium Seamans Book and watchstanding certificates. I got laid off from that job though last winter, so now I'm back to US shipping. Working on getting some seniority in my union, then you get the tits jobs that pay close to $1000/day. Yes please.

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Aug 4, 2007


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Honestly the kind of money we can make in this career is so loving sweet.
I take it you're up in Maine, or is that just where you studied?

I guess what I'm asking, is with my New Zealand licence (well, once I qualify anyway), can I work on American ships?

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Tell me more about the union, I've been dicked over so many times because we archaeologists haven't had one in ages. Stories about how great it is make me feel less insane for applying to these maritime academies with no experience at sea. Also anyone who did that, tell me how it went.

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Torka
Jan 5, 2008



Does the "gay for the stay" phenomenon exist on long sea voyages?

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

edit- conversations directly with the NMC medical guys have informed me that there is no 20/800 uncorrected vision cut-off and that I am good to go!

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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Sorry to hear that, dude. You can't look at corrective surgery or anything?

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Commoners
Apr 25, 2007

Sometimes you reach a stalemate. Sometimes you get magic horses.

Wait, so you would be waiverable if you jammed a claw hammer in your eye and wore an eye patch, but not with the eye having poor sight? That's an odd loophole.

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J Corp
Oct 16, 2006

I risked hypothermia and broken limbs and all I got was this shitty avatar and a severe case of shrinkage

In Busan, Korea.

I would not recommend sailing on Green ships. The crew is cool, but we're so short handed everybody works their rear end off for lousy pay. Also, there are only 2 Oilers in the engine room, and the other dude was ill for a week and a half. What's up double duty for a company that doesn't pay missing man wages?

We should be in Okinawa next, which I'm stoked on because it's been a place I've always wanted to see.

Anybody that is looking into sailing but doesn't want to commit to 4 years of school to do it, look into sailing unlicenced. I've been sailing since 2009 and if I keep at it like I am, I should easily have my 3rd Engineers license in the next 4 years. As it stands I should be able to take the class for Jr. Engineer when I sign off here and sail as QMED.

Don't listen to all these jerks, Hawsepipe all the way! :P

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Fish Shalami
Feb 6, 2005

What is shalami?

J Corp posted:

In Busan, Korea.

I would not recommend sailing on Green ships. The crew is cool, but we're so short handed everybody works their rear end off for lousy pay. Also, there are only 2 Oilers in the engine room, and the other dude was ill for a week and a half. What's up double duty for a company that doesn't pay missing man wages?

We should be in Okinawa next, which I'm stoked on because it's been a place I've always wanted to see.

Anybody that is looking into sailing but doesn't want to commit to 4 years of school to do it, look into sailing unlicenced. I've been sailing since 2009 and if I keep at it like I am, I should easily have my 3rd Engineers license in the next 4 years. As it stands I should be able to take the class for Jr. Engineer when I sign off here and sail as QMED.

Don't listen to all these jerks, Hawsepipe all the way! :P

Considering they take about the same amount of time, I'd suggest going to school to get your license. It's much easier compared to jumping through all the hoops the US Coast Guard requires of you these days. It would be very easy to miss some STCW's or forget some crucial form that can slow down the whole process. Better to just let the school take care of it all. You'll also get a BS on top of your license.

That's just me though.

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J Corp
Oct 16, 2006

I risked hypothermia and broken limbs and all I got was this shitty avatar and a severe case of shrinkage

Fish Shalami posted:

Considering they take about the same amount of time, I'd suggest going to school to get your license. It's much easier compared to jumping through all the hoops the US Coast Guard requires of you these days. It would be very easy to miss some STCW's or forget some crucial form that can slow down the whole process. Better to just let the school take care of it all. You'll also get a BS on top of your license.

That's just me though.

If some of my time transferred, maybe, but I'm not going to go back to square one. I don't need to be told what a valve is when I can already overhaul a generator engine myself.

Besides, I'm making money now and it's the same amount of time, or less if I sail more.

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Aug 4, 2007


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What's a valve again?

I kind of like his way of doing it, to be honest. I knew so little when I went out on my first cadetship, it was ridiculous. And he gets to earn money, like he says.

Any photos, man?

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CombatMedic
Feb 26, 2004

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FrozenVent posted:

I've been sailing since 2004, and I've worked with two guys who were prior navy, out of... I don't know, 200, 250 seamen? This is Canada, mind you. If the navy gave you any STCW certification, good for you, otherwise you'll have to go get them.

Then you're still at the back of the line in the Union hall. If you haven't been to sea, then you definetly don't have any sea time, so that's bumpkiss help certificate / license wise.

Medical experience... Heh, if you're an officer it might come up once or twice in your career, but what the company needs is someone with a Person in Charge of Medical Care certificate, STCW such and such. (Or whatever the gently caress it's called, I'd have to reach into a drawer to look at it.) They don't actually care about wether or not you can stitch someone back together, as long as you have the paper that says you can.

In this domain, your resume doesn't count for much - If you're unlicensed, you still have to wait in line at the Union; if you're looking for work on your own, well... The first page of my resume is a laundry list of certificates and license, with a line about how many years of experience I have on what type of vessels. The second page is a listing of every companies and vessels I've worked for.

The offshore industry hires full time medics, I think. I don't know what they need exactly, but that might be worth looking into.

I can tell you a little bit about offshore medics.

My company provides medics to oil platforms, drilling rigs, dive ships, and pipeline barges and other similar vessels. We provide service to mainly the Gulf of Mexico, but we do have a few overseas contracts.

You'll need your TWIC card, and your MCPIC. MCPIC is a 45 hour Coast Guard course for experienced medical providers to deal with things like suturing, basic eye/ear/nose/throat exams, and some minor surgical procedures. It's not difficult at all, and you'll probably never use most of it in the Gulf since you'd just medevac anyone remotely serious.

Anyhow, it's easy work. Lots of free time. Not at all like being a street EMT/paramedic. You might have 1 or 2 patients a shift with minor complaints. Minimal paperwork unless it's something critical. Shifts are usually 12 hours. In general, you work 14 days on, 14 days off. Some jobs are 28 days on, 28 days off. The pay is a little better than on the streets, but nothing spectacular.


I've never heard of a large tanker/container ship having a medic... does that ever happen? I thought it usually just fell on the captain or another officer to play medic if the need arises.

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100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007

Alcohol...
It's the water of life.



Grimey Drawer

Supposing you're a 25-year old guy guy who lives in Michigan and currently has no career prospects and a rather useless liberal arts degree, has no problem doing manual labor and is extremely wary of going to get more school-debt. Maybe in the Great Lakes, maybe further out, who cares.

Where do I start, getting all the papers and initial stuff out of the way? Is there somewhere I can call in Michigan so I can get on track to start pissing my money away in hopes of getting hired to shovel crud and paint the sides of poo poo several months from now?

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Fish Shalami
Feb 6, 2005

What is shalami?

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

Supposing you're a 25-year old guy guy who lives in Michigan and currently has no career prospects and a rather useless liberal arts degree, has no problem doing manual labor and is extremely wary of going to get more school-debt. Maybe in the Great Lakes, maybe further out, who cares.

Where do I start, getting all the papers and initial stuff out of the way? Is there somewhere I can call in Michigan so I can get on track to start pissing my money away in hopes of getting hired to shovel crud and paint the sides of poo poo several months from now?

If you want to work your way up unlicensed, I'd join Seafarers International Union (SIU) and they'll get going. Not sure where there closest hall is for you. I wouldn't stick with them for very long as they sort of have a reputation for being a scum bag union, but it's probably the easiest way from coming from the shore with no sailing experience to getting out on ships. They will push you to take all your courses and license/endorsement exams at their training school in Piney Point, MD, but I've heard you can just take the exams that are pertinent to what you want to do on your own. That way you don't have to deal with their bullshit where they string you along as unnecessary ratings, and you save some money.

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chunkles
Aug 14, 2005

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Anyone here graduate from Texas Maritime Academy? That's probably where I would go. Has anyone here gone to any of the US maritime academies? What do you do, grab a degree and then join a union and just start applying for jobs?

I am seriously mulling this as a career for the next decade or so. I want to travel the world and do poo poo like hike the Appalachian Trail. Not that I think hanging around on a freighter is a good way to do that, but the high pay and contract-based employment seems like it would enable me to do that stuff in my off-time, and hopefully accumulate some decent savings as well so I can transition to an on-shore job later in my life. Thoughts? Will I be too worn out from working to do that sort of stuff?

How many months do you guys typically work in a year?
Whats the money really like for a licensed engineer/deck guy? Hearing "six figures" gets me all hot and bothered but is that really realistic?

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Fish Shalami
Feb 6, 2005

What is shalami?

Guliani is HOT posted:

Anyone here graduate from Texas Maritime Academy? That's probably where I would go. Has anyone here gone to any of the US maritime academies? What do you do, grab a degree and then join a union and just start applying for jobs?

I am seriously mulling this as a career for the next decade or so. I want to travel the world and do poo poo like hike the Appalachian Trail. Not that I think hanging around on a freighter is a good way to do that, but the high pay and contract-based employment seems like it would enable me to do that stuff in my off-time, and hopefully accumulate some decent savings as well so I can transition to an on-shore job later in my life. Thoughts? Will I be too worn out from working to do that sort of stuff?

How many months do you guys typically work in a year?
Whats the money really like for a licensed engineer/deck guy? Hearing "six figures" gets me all hot and bothered but is that really realistic?

I went to the US Merchant Marine Academy in NY, graduated in 2009. Came out with a BS in Marine Engineering Systems, a USCG License as a Third Assistant Engineer on unlimited tonnage vessels of any horsepower (gas turbine, steam, or motor), and a commission in the US Navy Reserve as an Ensign. While you certainly don't have to join a union, I'd say most people end up that way.

You don't really have to apply for jobs in a union, though some companies do hire from within and just require that you be in the union.

If you actually want to travel, shipping isn't what it used to be as far as getting off the ship and exploring exotic ports of call. Container ships are rarely in port for more than day, and even during that time there is stuff that needs to be done while everything is shut down that can't be done when the ship is underway.

Before I got laid off I was working six months (three months on/three months off) and grossed about $90k a year. There are certainly other higher paying contracts out there. THough now I'm shipping out of the hall, this last ship I was on, I made about $28k before taxes for a two month trip, which is pretty low for the industry.

I'd say Military Sealift Command would be your best bet if you just want to go to sea and make a crap load of money. Though you'll probably be sailing about ten months out of the year.

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chunkles
Aug 14, 2005

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Fish Shalami posted:

If you actually want to travel, shipping isn't what it used to be as far as getting off the ship and exploring exotic ports of call. Container ships are rarely in port for more than day, and even during that time there is stuff that needs to be done while everything is shut down that can't be done when the ship is underway.

Nah I meant more like saving up cash and travelling when not working. After reading this thread I'm not under any illusions about having ADVENTURES while on duty.

Also (mainly for engineers) earlier in this thread you guys were talking about on-shore jobs. Are there on-shore jobs that you can get with a marine engineering degree or do you acquire other qualifications during your education/licensing?

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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I've known marine engineers who have gone ashore to work in power stations and the like. Marine engineering is a jack-of-all-trades job and you pick up an awful lot of knowledge that covers a wide range of fields, so you're pretty employable.

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Per
Feb 22, 2006


Sugartime Jones

Yeah, the marine engineer's union in Denmark have about 70% of their members working ashore. Aside from power stations they also work in places like hospitals with a lot of HVAC and electrics.

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J Corp
Oct 16, 2006

I risked hypothermia and broken limbs and all I got was this shitty avatar and a severe case of shrinkage

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

Supposing you're a 25-year old guy guy who lives in Michigan and currently has no career prospects and a rather useless liberal arts degree, has no problem doing manual labor and is extremely wary of going to get more school-debt. Maybe in the Great Lakes, maybe further out, who cares.

Where do I start, getting all the papers and initial stuff out of the way? Is there somewhere I can call in Michigan so I can get on track to start pissing my money away in hopes of getting hired to shovel crud and paint the sides of poo poo several months from now?

The closest SIU hall for you is Algonac. Your going to need your twic and mmd which have already been talked about here before you can get a job. Also try talking to American Steamship, they handle a huge ammount of lakes shipping and they hire direct.

San Juan, PR looks beautiful, too bad we're only here 4 hours.

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

So my one month relief turned into a three months, with the possibility of another four months after a month off... Assuming they find somebody to relieve me. Yay money!

And if anybody from Canada was considering shipping out unlicensed, the union halls are almost empty right now, so... There's demand.

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Pants, Grandpa!
Feb 2, 2005
Call Me The Mech Man.

Guliani is HOT posted:

Anyone here graduate from Texas Maritime Academy? That's probably where I would go. Has anyone here gone to any of the US maritime academies? What do you do, grab a degree and then join a union and just start applying for jobs?

I am seriously mulling this as a career for the next decade or so. I want to travel the world and do poo poo like hike the Appalachian Trail. Not that I think hanging around on a freighter is a good way to do that, but the high pay and contract-based employment seems like it would enable me to do that stuff in my off-time, and hopefully accumulate some decent savings as well so I can transition to an on-shore job later in my life. Thoughts? Will I be too worn out from working to do that sort of stuff?

How many months do you guys typically work in a year?
Whats the money really like for a licensed engineer/deck guy? Hearing "six figures" gets me all hot and bothered but is that really realistic?

I went to Texas Maritime, graduated in December 09 with a 3rd Mates License and a B.S. in Marine Transportation. Most of my friends who joined a Union out of school didn't go anywhere with it; they just ended up at the companies hiring in the Gulf.

In a year I work about six months (three weeks on/off), not including the various training classes I goto in my time off. As a decky working on a rig/drillship in the Gulf, I'm pulling about 130-140 a year, and that's for one of the lower paying drilling companies.

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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Did you do a cadetship on the Golden Bear?
She was in Auckland last weekend with 240 cadets on board. So naturally we showed them a good old Kiwi time - most of our maritime school took them out and we all got absolutely hammered.

Took a photo just because.

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Pants, Grandpa!
Feb 2, 2005
Call Me The Mech Man.

Yeah, I did my freshman and senior cruises on the Golden Bear, good times; absolute poo poo shows in every port we went to. I probably know a couple of the senior Texas students that were on there.

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Having never done one, I can't see the educationnal benefits of a cruise on a training ship with 240 cadets. Wouldn't sea time spent on an actual working commercial vessel be more relevant?

I could see the point for the first time out, but still holy poo poo, 240 loving cadets. That's like 10 times my graduating class, all on one boat... there's not enough booze in the world.

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Pants, Grandpa!
Feb 2, 2005
Call Me The Mech Man.

It wasn't perfect but it wasn't horrible either; when I was on there we basically rotated between doing

1. Deck work, maintenance, soundings, going into tanks, hands on training, etc
2. Navigational Watches, where seniors were constantly taking fixes/azimuths/weather/all that good stuff while teaching the freshmen who were basically lookouts, and
3. Classroom time, which you could do onshore so that was kind of a wash

We rotated between those about every five days and tried to do full celestial days everyday....it worked out alright.

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Does that count toward your sea time, or is it on top of it? It sounds like a great way to do practical work in a structured environment (Vs the "enclosed space simulator" we had, aka the seamanship workshop's closet) but there's no cargo work involved, and you kind of miss out on the "time is money, get the gently caress moving" aspect.

Well, ok, that's not exactly a bad thing. All the US schools have training ships, don't they?

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