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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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FrozenVent posted:

I could see the point for the first time out, but still holy poo poo, 240 loving cadets. That's like 10 times my graduating class, all on one boat... there's not enough booze in the world.

It was actually a dry ship, but goddamn it was a good night when we all went out. My credit card took an absolute pounding.

Pants, Grandpa! posted:

Yeah, I did my freshman and senior cruises on the Golden Bear, good times; absolute poo poo shows in every port we went to. I probably know a couple of the senior Texas students that were on there.

I'd ask you about a few names but honestly I can't really remember any of them, it was that kind of night.

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Pants, Grandpa!
Feb 2, 2005
Call Me The Mech Man.

FrozenVent posted:

Does that count toward your sea time, or is it on top of it? It sounds like a great way to do practical work in a structured environment (Vs the "enclosed space simulator" we had, aka the seamanship workshop's closet) but there's no cargo work involved, and you kind of miss out on the "time is money, get the gently caress moving" aspect.

Well, ok, that's not exactly a bad thing. All the US schools have training ships, don't they?

It counts as time and a half towards our sea time, so they're only two month cruises while our commercial cruise is three months.

And technically, I believe they all do, but I know for Texas we don't have enough money to fix up our ship to make it usable, so we sail with Cal. I also think, not entirely sure, that the guys over at Kings Point solely do cruises with companies; apparently they have a training ship but not the kind used for training cruises.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Couldn't get this out of my head so I talked directly to the Coast Guard medical guys a while back, they said that the NVIC 04/08 vision cut-off of 20/800 was not a hard rule and that the waivers were routine in candidates whose vision was well-corrected. Also figured out that one of my eyes was likely assessed wrong and as far as I can tell both are somewhere between 20/400 and 20/800 uncorrected anyway. Started applying to maritime academies for 2012, Great Lakes had a last-second engineering slot open, toured their facilities, was impressed with their 200' diesel-electric training ship and quite new class and lab facilities (and let's face it, with the non-regimented cadets, small size, and the location in Traverse City, I am not 18 anymore and the town and atmosphere really appealed to me). The prospect of doing most of my sea time on commercial vessels (Lakes and ocean) also appealed. I took their offer, passed their physical, and am starting in a few weeks on track to finish in 3 years due to lots of basic science credits from my previous bachelors degree shaving all the intro to chem, physics, math, etc off. Always kind of wanted to sail the lakes specifically as a kid (not to mention there's about a dozen Michigan guys I've worked with as a field tech who kept saying a southern boy couldn't handle it on the lakes). Tell me what I am missing here, I was away from home 9+ months a year just to scrape up a 20 grand salary as an archaeologist, when I could find work at all, is there a catch to this or is it seriously a reasonably-paid field that people actually don't want to do, with jobs out there for new grads?

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pazrs
Mar 27, 2005


Had my second of three Engineering Exams this morning, it basically consisted of:

*Forces in helical and double-helical (herringingbone) gearboxes.
*Stern tubes.
*Flow paths in water tube boilers.
*Survey requirements for (main 60 bar) boilers.


And a bit of other crap, was a lot easier then expected. Tomorrow is support systems and electrical.

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Aug 14, 2005

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Pants, Grandpa! posted:

I went to Texas Maritime, graduated in December 09 with a 3rd Mates License and a B.S. in Marine Transportation. Most of my friends who joined a Union out of school didn't go anywhere with it; they just ended up at the companies hiring in the Gulf.

In a year I work about six months (three weeks on/off), not including the various training classes I goto in my time off. As a decky working on a rig/drillship in the Gulf, I'm pulling about 130-140 a year, and that's for one of the lower paying drilling companies.

Well thats good to know. How'd you get a job on a rig/drillship, do you need any special connections/experience? Would you say working on those is similar to working in shipping (which is what most people in this thread seem to be doing)?

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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pazrs posted:

Had my second of three Engineering Exams this morning, it basically consisted of:

*Forces in helical and double-helical (herringingbone) gearboxes.
*Stern tubes.
*Flow paths in water tube boilers.
*Survey requirements for (main 60 bar) boilers.


And a bit of other crap, was a lot easier then expected. Tomorrow is support systems and electrical.

Are you doing a steam ticket man? I haven't heard of a 60 bar boiler on a commercial diesel ship in a while.

shovelbum posted:

Tell me what I am missing here, I was away from home 9+ months a year just to scrape up a 20 grand salary as an archaeologist, when I could find work at all, is there a catch to this or is it seriously a reasonably-paid field that people actually don't want to do, with jobs out there for new grads?

No, this is pretty much it as far as I can tell. There is a massive shortage of marine engineers worldwide and companies are absolutely screaming for people. As near as I can tell, nobody wants to do it. It seems like everyone has this idea in their heads that IT/Law is where the huge money is so everyone runs off to those careers.
Let them, I say, I'll enjoy my time on the ocean.

Congratulations, by the way. You'll have a blast.

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pazrs
Mar 27, 2005


Two Finger posted:

Are you doing a steam ticket man? I haven't heard of a 60 bar boiler on a commercial diesel ship in a while.

Under the Australian system you can sit for your Steam qualification without having ever been on a steam powered vessel, so you get a Motor/Steam powered ticket. I am going to sit for both Motor/Steam but that is about a year off.

One of my lecturers is really passionate about steam, no matter what question you ask he will somehow relate it back to a steam powered ship. We joke that the crazy old dutchman must have a 60 bar coffee machine. After looking at pictures of a steam ships engine room, it looks like a nice clean quiet place to be!

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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Haha, we have a lecturer just like that. It must be something about older people. He's an incredibly onto it guy though. Anything I've ever needed to know about boilers or steam he has been the man to ask.

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

I had a lecturer obsessed with steam too, and I'm deck. They're just one of those cliché characters, like how there's an engineer on every boat who's obsessed with the poo poo bacterias. (Best trolled b loudly asking the cook for some Ajax)

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CroatianAlzheimers
Jun 15, 2009

I can't remember why I'm mad at you...


So, out of curiosity, how does one go about becoming a ship's cook? I'm currently unemployed in Detroit, have a culinary degree and experience in the cooking industry, and a liking for boats. Is it painting and school, or is there some other way that ship's cooks are made? Losing a leg in action and getting a cook's warrant from the captain for your trouble perhaps?

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Aug 4, 2007


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FrozenVent posted:

I had a lecturer obsessed with steam too, and I'm deck. They're just one of those cliché characters, like how there's an engineer on every boat who's obsessed with the poo poo bacterias. (Best trolled b loudly asking the cook for some Ajax)

gently caress, you had one of those too? Every time I went to take a poo poo I'd tell him I was feeding the bacteria, and he'd get a big happy grin.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Welp, just finalized registration and pulled the trigger on the first student loan, I'm committed now. Moving to Traverse City tomorrow, I am sure I will have many stories from the school and from the lakes for this thread. You bastards better be right about an engineer's ability to pay down some student loans fast

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

shovelbum posted:

You bastards better be right about an engineer's ability to pay down some student loans fast

Don't worry, 100% of the 33% of matriculating students who end up graduating have no problems paying up.

Expect half of your classmates to drop out before the 3rd semester, if engine is anything like deck.

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Aug 4, 2007


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If you do a Golden Bear cruise and it comes down to NZ, let me know - I'll make sure to meet you for a beer.

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Tactical Grace
Apr 30, 2008


Why are there such high drop out rates? Are they specific to the USA?

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Tactical Grace posted:

Why are there such high drop out rates? Are they specific to the USA?

Actually, I don't know if they have that kind of drop rates in the states, but that's pretty much how it goes accross Canada, and with some of the foreigners I've spoken to.

There's a lot of poo poo to learn. Maths, physics, regulations, cargo work, navigation, meterology, astronomy... obviously I'm talking deck, here, but its simillar for engineering. Except they have more maths and physics. Oh and chemistry. Including core classes, the first semester for a fresh out of HS student in navigation at the school I attended was something like 30 hours. (I had my core requirements already, so all I had was 19 hrs - 16 of first semester nav and a 4th semester course.) Flunking a class usually meant waiting a year before it was offered again.

Then there's the work terms, where a lot of people realize that holy gently caress, this isn't like being on dad's sailboat, and three months is a long loving time.

My initial class was 58 students; we were something like 17 at graduation... and like 7 of those people were a year late. Heck, some people who started the year before me finished the year after... and some of those people still don't have tickets, four years later. I think that out of the 17, 14 are still sailling. (Obviously, it's hard to keep track of people)

I should specify that the school had a policy of taking everyone, without requiring a medical first. Every class had a guy or two drop out because they were colorblind or whatever. Public education FTW.

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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Yeah, we had one guy who had literally never been in the water in his life. Watching him do his survival training was hysterical, we honestly thought he was going to drown - in a lifejacket. It's a lot harder than a lot of people expect it to be. I've made it through second year, but I'm not looking forward to all the insane maths+physics in third year.

It's just not what a lot of people expect, I think.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

The US schools all seem to take different approaches, I have looked over most of their requirements- some train you more towards the operations/management side of things, some do the maths/physics mindfuck, some are all over the place and you wonder what they could even call their degrees, the one I am going to takes guys with random bachelors degrees coming in and essentially chains them to either a diesel engine or a pilotage simulator, notice how the curriculum immediately devolves into hour after hour of concentrated lab time past the first semester, as all other aspects of it vanish (in the grand US tradition, credit hours bear no actual relationship to the time spent in the lab)- lois griffin sex comics The upside is a three year program with two commercial cadet cruises.

I am still looking forward to it.

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TF CURES GENERATOR
Aug 4, 2007


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As you should be. Can we get a count here?
Deck: Frozenvent, who else?

Engine: Me, you, pazrs, and was someone else one as well?

Might be worth updating the OP? Not really sure if you want to do that, FrozenVent.

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Two Finger posted:

Might be worth updating the OP? Not really sure if you want to do that, FrozenVent.

I'm on my cell phone right now, but if you make a list I'll update the OP when I get a chance.

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ETMPlus
Jul 28, 2008

You're going to be the Eleventh Commandment: 'Thou shalt not get away with it.'


NOAA fleet guy checking in. I've sailed civilian and commissioned deck officer, and can answer questions about our ships, life on them, or whatever. Our ships and plants are smaller than almost any merchant ship, but we can do some fun things with them (walking them sideways to piers, holding station without any of that DP crap, etc.) It's a different side of the maritime world, and it's pretty drat fun.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

ETMPlus posted:

NOAA fleet guy checking in. I've sailed civilian and commissioned deck officer, and can answer questions about our ships, life on them, or whatever. Our ships and plants are smaller than almost any merchant ship, but we can do some fun things with them (walking them sideways to piers, holding station without any of that DP crap, etc.) It's a different side of the maritime world, and it's pretty drat fun.

Do you have to be a scientist of some kind, or do they hire licensed deck and engineering guys whose background is just civilian maritime work?

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ETMPlus
Jul 28, 2008

You're going to be the Eleventh Commandment: 'Thou shalt not get away with it.'


shovelbum posted:

Do you have to be a scientist of some kind, or do they hire licensed deck and engineering guys whose background is just civilian maritime work?

Nope, all of our deck & engineering guys are credentialed or licensed mariners. We have a few mates throughout the fleet, and all engineering officers are licensed. We also have ABs, OSes, Oilers, JUEs, and so on. Science is, on most ships, run by a scientific party supported by a survey tech who is part of the ship's company (and is, in the best cases, a skilled deck hand.)

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lightpole
Jun 4, 2004


J Corp your ot rate is my penalty rate and I get 2 hours OT and 14 penalty on my duty night for sitting on my rear end. Unless you are already close going through the hawsepipe is a waste of time. Anything special you might learn over those years should be picked up by a new 3rd in his first 6 months. I know you are close and dont want to bring you down but anyone looking to get in should go to school if they figure out its something they can handle. The course load and workis brutal and all the academies have some sort of regimntation which drives a lot of people off so drop out rates are high. Engineers are all but garunteed to make 80k or more on graduation. Deck a little less. My expectedpay is 90k in 6 months work as a 3rd. I have no problems getting it.

Im on the Green Cove now, 42 days of drifting before we got cargo. We were out of food by the time we got back to Japan. The cook was making ramen noodle packets for breakfast.

Its not hard to sneak some booze back on the Bear. One of my friends dropped a 5th of rum on the quarterdeck getting back on board and just kept on walking. The mate on watch said he should have picked it up 1st. I was thinking about grabbing an lwo spot on there for kicks since the cruise this summer looked awesome but I would rather get paid.

shovelbum if you make it through you wont have a problem with work, just keep a good attitude and show up ready and willing to work and learn. Its not rocket science out here, more a be able to work with others because you cant get away from them thing. I think SUNY was just ranked in the top 5 schools for money and jobs. The other maritime schools have the same options but also some different majors that bring the averages down. You have nothing to feaar if you can make it.

Also steam is loving awesome. No dirty rear end diesel manifold to leak everywhere and be really loud. Just boil water all day.

Sorry for the post, Im on duty and only have my kindle for internet. 3 weeks to Hono then on to Mexico, Panama, Puerto Rico and Jacksonville where my 90 is up.

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camino
Feb 22, 2006


shovelbum posted:

The US schools all seem to take different approaches, I have looked over most of their requirements- some train you more towards the operations/management side of things, some do the maths/physics mindfuck, some are all over the place and you wonder what they could even call their degrees, the one I am going to takes guys with random bachelors degrees coming in and essentially chains them to either a diesel engine or a pilotage simulator, notice how the curriculum immediately devolves into hour after hour of concentrated lab time past the first semester, as all other aspects of it vanish (in the grand US tradition, credit hours bear no actual relationship to the time spent in the lab)- free porn tamil movies The upside is a three year program with two commercial cadet cruises.

I am still looking forward to it.

I think we spent all of one day in the diesel simulator during first year, and that was only because half the class took a propeller club trip to go look at a dock or something.

Be prepared for PowerPoint. Oh god, the PowerPoint.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

camino posted:

I think we spent all of one day in the diesel simulator during first year, and that was only because half the class took a propeller club trip to go look at a dock or something.

Be prepared for PowerPoint. Oh god, the PowerPoint.

I made it through an archaeology degree in what seems like a past life. It transitioned from hours and hours of slides to hours and hours of powerpoints a day while I was there (I am not old, but some profs were). This is where I shine.

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Grand Prize Winner
Feb 19, 2007




What kind of policies do shipping companies have with regards to background checks? Would they take a guy with a felony?

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Grand Prize Winner posted:

What kind of policies do shipping companies have with regards to background checks? Would they take a guy with a felony?

Canadians with a criminal record (IE a DUI) can't enter the US without a waiver and vice versa.

So in short, if it can be an issue regarding visa, it can be an issue. It's not that they won't hire you, it's that you get laid off if the boat is headed to the states or wherever the gently caress won't let you in.

Check with your local union.

Edit VVVV Oh yeah, if you're American and can't get a TWIC, you're pretty much hosed. If you're a dirty foreigner, you can't get one anyway... But you still need to be able to enter the US (Canadian citizenship, B1 visa, whatever)

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Grand Prize Winner posted:

What kind of policies do shipping companies have with regards to background checks? Would they take a guy with a felony?

How old's the felony and what is it? Could be an issue just to get a TWIC much less work, right?

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nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

FrozenVent posted:

Canadians with a criminal record (IE a DUI) can't enter the US without a waiver and vice versa.
I think Canadians with DUIs are ok to get in the US but not vice versa as a DUI is a felony in Canada but not the US. Obviously, I would call the US embassy/consulate before hand.
If you have a wet and reckless in the US you may be able to get into Canada without issue depending on the exact statute.

There is also a washout period for these, either 5 or 7 years.

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Canadian to the US, as far as I know, a DUI is enough to keep you out. After 5 years, you can get a pardon, but the US doesn't recognize it. So if you've been to the states before the pardon, you need a waiver for the rest of your life.

Heck I've seen people with waivers for the dumbest reasons.

I don't know about the other way around, but it's a pretty loving dumb system.

Edit: I should specify that I'm not on a waiver, so all I know is second hand. Never seen anything official. People with criminal records get waivers forever, and that's the way it goes.

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Grand Prize Winner
Feb 19, 2007




shovelbum posted:

How old's the felony and what is it? Could be an issue just to get a TWIC much less work, right?

I'm a US citizen in the US. It's about three months old at this point, one count of assault resulting in GBI in California. Assuming I keep a clean record through the end of my probation in 2014, the court may reduce the conviction to a misdemeanor.

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Aug 4, 2007


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You might be better to ask in the Legal Questions Megathread over in BFC. I don't really know, sorry, it's not something I've ever had to deal with.

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Nov 20, 2005
waiting for the money to roll in

Would going to say PMI or MITAGS be a good way to get started in this industry?

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Grand Prize Winner posted:

I'm a US citizen in the US. It's about three months old at this point, one count of assault resulting in GBI in California. Assuming I keep a clean record through the end of my probation in 2014, the court may reduce the conviction to a misdemeanor.

I think there might be a table of crimes and penalties for maritime credentials in 46cfr200 something, saw it in class today.

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

shovelbum posted:

I think there might be a table of crimes and penalties for maritime credentials in 46cfr200 something, saw it in class today.

What happened to getting chained to a simulator for three years?


46 CFR § 12.02-4,
Table 12.02-4(c) - I can't find the table, but I guess it exists. Google is fun!

How do you like it so far?

I'm home on emergency leave for a few days. I never realized how much mental preparation went into getting off the boat. While I'm happy to be home, I wasn't prepared for it; it's jarring and sudden, and I'm still in boat mode personality and brain wise. And oh God, the sleep pattern. I never realized how loving quiet this room is. (Well, I do every time I come home, then I forget to get a fan or a white noise machine or whatever the next morning and the cycle continues.)

But I'm going back soon, so there's no sense readapting. I kind of want to go back just to get this over with. Yes, that's right, I want to go back to a boat. I need a shrink.

The manning situation is getting ridiculous.whatever. There are guys who haven't had time off in four months because there's no reliefs available. If this keep up, they'll have to tie up boats for lack of crew within five years. (Well, ok, they'll get coasting waivers for foreign boats long before that, but it still means we're going to be out of a job.)

So hey, you! Get off your rear end and go to sea! Uncle Pennybag wants YOU for the Merchant Marine!

Seriously. 100% employement, decent wages, benefits. If you hate your friends and family, what's not to love about this job?

I'm around for a few days, so I can answer questions quickly if anybody has them. Eventually I'll get around to writing a post on the various marine school in Canada... Eventually.

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StopShootingMe
Jun 8, 2004

I can't believe I spent $5 on this title.

I just bailed on my last ship and am about to embark on an overseas holiday with my sea tickets in hand. Is the manning situation in North America dire enough that an Australian-ticketed chief mate could get work as a second or third mate there? Oil endorsements and product tanker experience here.

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FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

You'd have to get some sort of work visa... And I'm not exactly sure of the process for your license, but seeing as you're from a commonwealth country, I can't believe it would be a huge pain. Might take a few months to process.

One of these fine people should be able to answer your questions: dr drew sex addicts

I can ask around once I get back onboard, there's always a few guys who immigrated to work here with or without licenses. I'm not 100% sure of the process, like I said. I know there are Philipino ratings that only have Philipino passports, so it is possible to sail on a visa of some sort...

And if you have a chief mate's license and experience to match, I wouldn't expect to be 2nd or 3rd for long. The manning shortage is ridiculous. (Although things do die down a bit in the winter on the East coast, when the lakes shut down)

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Aug 4, 2007


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I have a question...


Why does my life kick so much rear end?


Oh yeah, because I have no responsibility and work on a cruise ship.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

FrozenVent posted:

What happened to getting chained to a simulator for three years?


46 CFR § 12.02-4,
Table 12.02-4(c) - I can't find the table, but I guess it exists. Google is fun!

How do you like it so far?

I like it so far, we have been more chained to a powerpoint projector than anything, learning rules, regs, and not to drive drunk. I found the table, it's 46 CFR §10.211, I left out the 10 before! Whoops. Anyway, what we seem to do on the engine side instead of sims at this point is STCW practicals (cutting pipes, making gaskets, etc) and tracing systems on the training ship, especially in the parts that previous years of cadets haven't painted color-coded yet. There's big computers with pipe and valve sims etc that we will spend lots of time on later.

As someone who already had a bachelors and already did a lot of the math/physics/chem stuff beforehand, this "ok here is how a ship works, as this ship not-so-clearly indicates" approach is really useful for me. Great Lakes is definitely more of a deck/pilotage school but engine side guys sure seem to do fine out of here too. I guess we are the "grease monkey" academy since we don't learn a lot of the physics and chem. If some 18 year old kid is reading this, go to Maine or somewhere and get an engineering degree, but if some other college-educated 20somethings are reading this, at least look at the 3-year license track here.

edit: we spent the first two weeks on the training ship doing rowing, lifeboat/liferaft stuff, and intro to pipes and valves and pumps, it was a great time, even if we barely left port! I wake up every day and want to go to class. Oh, found the table of crimes and times for the assault guy, looks like it will give you some trouble last long in sex Also, here is what the TWIC guys are looking at as far as criminal record: porn movies for girls So just combine those two pieces of information and see where you can go from there.

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