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02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



Steven Erikson's The Malazan Book of the Fallen is an epic dark fantasy series that feels a bit like Glenn Cook's The Black Company books, but with the complexity of George R.R. Martin's writing. It's difficult to describe because there isn't really anything like it. They're dark, gritty, and utterly brutal, but they're also pretty funny, and have a huge cast of really lovable characters.

The Malazan Empire is basically an overstretched Roman Empire with wizards and explosives. Its emperor has been killed and usurped, its armies are scattered over too large an area, and both its conquered peoples and its armies are a hair away from open revolt. The first book focuses on a city besieged by a Malazan army, following characters both inside the city and out. On the inside it follows bickering nobles and their political intrigues, a drunken dandy, a thief having a moral crisis, and a fat, probably-retarded wizard who can see the future through his dreams. On the outside it follows an army company seemingly sentenced to death, who have become a political inconvenience to their empress, repeatedly sent on whatever mission is most likely to kill them. Also in the mix are an ambitious young noble attempting to quell dissent in the army, a zombie made of dust, and a giant floating mountain that shoots lasers (it can't actually shoot lasers, shut up).

The second book is set on the continent of Seven Cities, where a religious uprising called The Whirlwind overthrows Malazan rule and takes power. The book follows the uprising itself, and a desperate general trying to lead a train of refugees across the continent to safety while the rebelling armies hunt them down. A few characters from the first book are also intertwined.

From there the plot branches out, forwards and backwards and every which way. You're really starting in the middle of an enormous story, not the start, and you're dropped in headfirst. They don't spend the first book setting the scene and introducing you to characters with long winded exposition to ease you into the world and whatever, the plot just loving starts and you're in it now. This makes the books extremely rereadable, because each time you go through your understanding of the world and the characters is deeper than it was before, and you don't have to trek through the boring explanatory half of the first book each time that's so common with fantasy series.

Erikson has trained as both an anthropologist and archaeologist and approaches his story as a history. Ancient cultures and dead races everywhere. Not everyone has the same idea of how a historical event turned out, and you’ll read theories from different points of view and form your own ideas of the what’s what.

The magic system in the books is based around "Warrens", which are other dimensions that mages draw their power from. The type of magic will be influenced by the type of place the power is coming from, but these worlds are themselves fleshed out places, which can be travelled to and through, each with their own geography and history. So in addition to following the main world, you're learning about the histories and cultures of the warrens and the relationships between them. The magic isn't an unexplained force of nature, it's a fluid thing that exists in certain ways for certain reasons at certain times, which is a mystery that you'll learn more about as the series goes on. The series is also full of gods and goddesses and ascendants and all sorts of powerful whatsits, each of which are interesting characters in their own right, not just plot devices to drive the stories of the protagonists. Also, you’d better watch out, because this series has UNDEAD SPACE-VELOCIRAPTORS WITH SWORDS FOR ARMS in it. Seriously.



There are ten books in the series. The final book has just been released as I write this.

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If you are a diehard motherfucker, there's also a companion series written by Erikson's friend Ian Cameron Esslemont. It's called "Novels of the Malazan Empire", and will be 5 books long (the entire 15 book arc was planned together, and the stories intertwine). Three are currently finished. All of his books deal with subjects that will be of great interest to you if you're reading Erikson's books, but his writing is just straight up worse. Most people should just read Erikson's 10 books, and if you crave more afterwards, try Esslemont. But if you're so completely suckered in to the universe that nothing will sway you, here is the "recommended" reading order.

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Night of Knives sucks, but it's very short. Return of the Crimson Guard and Stonewielder aren't quite as good as an Erikson book, but they're pretty decent in their own right, and still walk all over most of the lovely fantasy out there. Reading them in this order is also a good way to get all the story development, while spacing out the shittier writing. Or, to look at it another way, you get a break from Erikson's excessive philosophizing if it's starting to grate on you by that point.

Erikson has also written a series of short novellas, the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach series. These are funny and they sort of own, but they're just short and fun and simple and don't have any bearing on the main story, so they can be read whenever or outright ignored.







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Q: I just started book 4/5. Who are all these new lovely characters? Where are my Bridgeburners?
A:
These stories will all tie into the existing story awesomely, you just need to give it some time and piece together how it fits in to what you’ve already witnessed. And how DARE you call Karsa lovely, you rear end in a top hat.

miss teen canada 2009 Q: I heard you were supposed to start on the second book.
A:
Erikson wrote the first book, then hunted around for a publishing deal for a good ten years, then wrote books 2-10. His writing gets better with every book, but the jump is most noticeable between books 1 and 2 as a result. Some people do recommend that you start at book 2. Books 1, 2, and 5 all start a new major plotline with a new cast of characters, and you could start the series at any of these points, in black and blonde porn theory. In practice, it’s probably not a good idea. Though the timelines combine and overlap and jump back and forward, the series is written to be exposed in a certain order, the pieces of the puzzle are supposed to fall in a certain way. Just about everyone in this thread has a different idea of the best or worst book, and I, for example, had my rear end completely kicked by how cool book 1 was, but found book 2 a bit of a struggle. My favourite book is book 4, and that’s the least favourite of plenty of posters in the thread. As everyone has a conflicting opinion, just start at book 1. If you can’t handle the style of storytelling, this series probably isn’t for you.

premarital sex in islam Q: I started reading and I have no idea what's going on. Help!
robert ben garant naked A: As mentioned you're just dropped in to the story headfirst. Try to pay attention as you're reading. This can be an uncomfortable thing for many readers, but try to realize you are not supposed to know or understand everything from the get go. The denial of information to the reader is just as important to a good story as the exposition is, and Erikson is excellent at it.

Juaguocio wanted me to add posted:

My take on Erikson was always that he expects you've read all his books at all times. When you read book 1, he expects you're read books 2-10, kinda. It sounds retarded, but it makes it infinitely rereadable.

hot air balloon sex Q: I haven’t seen this character for a few books. Who is s/he again?
christina applegate sex pics A: For the love of god, don’t google it. Or wikipedia search it. The internet is full of huge awful spoilers, so just ask us: we’re good with spoiler brackets here. If you’re wondering about house placements and things, it’s a good idea to check the appendix at the back of the teen big ass pics previous book to avoid spoilers. If you check the back of the book you’re mature sex party video currently reading, it might reveal movements in the houses that will give away plot points.

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qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.

From the last thread: I just finished Bonehunters. Really loved it. Mostly for the fact that Erikson finally laid off on introducing 50 new characters and for the most part just stuck to ones we already knew.

I was really on the edge of my seat for the last 200 pages, wondering who was gonna live/die. married couple porn videos Kalam/Tavore/T'Amber basically cutting a swath of Claw death across Malaz City was AWESOME. Then the showdown with everyone trying to hold off Icarium.

It seems like the consensus is that Reaper's Gale is great, so excited to dive right into that.

02-6611-0142-1 posted:

sexy sex fuck naked Q: I haven’t seen this character for a few books. Who is s/he again?
christopher meloni nude pictures A: For the love of god, don’t google it. Or wikipedia search it. The internet is full of huge awful spoilers, so just ask us: we’re good with spoiler brackets here.

On that note, who's Cartheron Crust again? I recognize the name, but I don't remember the context.

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02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



qbert posted:

On that note, who's Cartheron Crust again? I recognize the name, but I don't remember the context.

Old guard, high fist, member of Kellanved's inner circle. (HoC) post my nude wife "drowned" alongside his brother, Urko. Urko was the guy in the tower who beat up Karsa.

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Illuyankas
Oct 22, 2010



qbert posted:

On that note, who's Cartheron Crust again? I recognize the name, but I don't remember the context.
You might also remember him as nude african tribe girls the captain from DG who takes Kalam and Salk Elan/Pearl to Malaz City.

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A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Meh...Kind of a lackluster thread title. But great OP! Though I think I'd put the chronology things lower...Maybe at the end. Just random unasked for advice.

Also, isn't Erikson an anthropologist, not an archaeologist?

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Concurred
Apr 23, 2003

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Major in Anthro, minor in English or English lit, or vice versa.

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02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



It looks better that way, you're right. If somebody comes up with a better thread title we can just ask a mod to change it later.

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Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


Just finished the first book last month, good stuff. I got kind of annoyed with how prevalent magic is in the world, because most edgy fantasy these days (like A Song of Ice and Fire, The First Law, or the manga Berserk) has magic as a thing not many people believe is real or really know about. In Malazan it's just everywhere and some of the lore behind in all just seems excessive. I also felt the first book suffered from too much explanations of magic and history and not enough of making the characters seem three dimensional. I hardly felt anything for Paran even though he's basically the main character. And the ending big tit porno movies with that magic tree thing that weakens the Jaghut tyrant and then turns into a house? What the hell was that about?

Despite all those complaints I enjoyed the book, and I'll probably read the second and third over the summer. It's nice that an epic fantasy series is finally done, too. I know I'll be waiting for years for ASoIaF and Berserk to get anywhere.

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


qbert posted:

lilo and sticth porn Kalam/Tavore/T'Amber basically cutting a swath of Claw death across Malaz City

I think you left out the spoiler from the other thread...

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Sep 1, 2004



Ccs posted:

Just finished the first book last month, good stuff. I got kind of annoyed with how prevalent magic is in the world, because most edgy fantasy these days (like A Song of Ice and Fire, The First Law, or the manga Berserk) has magic as a thing not many people believe is real or really know about. In Malazan it's just everywhere and some of the lore behind in all just seems excessive.

Its better to think about these books as if you're reading a giant Greek epic like the Iliad or Odyssey, only without the incomprehensible translations.

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Masonity
Dec 31, 2007

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Ccs posted:

Just finished the first book last month, good stuff. I got kind of annoyed with how prevalent magic is in the world, because most edgy fantasy these days (like A Song of Ice and Fire, The First Law, or the manga Berserk) has magic as a thing not many people believe is real or really know about. In Malazan it's just everywhere and some of the lore behind in all just seems excessive. I also felt the first book suffered from too much explanations of magic and history and not enough of making the characters seem three dimensional. I hardly felt anything for Paran even though he's basically the main character. And the ending free tiny pussy porn with that magic tree thing that weakens the Jaghut tyrant and then turns into a house? What the hell was that about?

Despite all those complaints I enjoyed the book, and I'll probably read the second and third over the summer. It's nice that an epic fantasy series is finally done, too. I know I'll be waiting for years for ASoIaF and Berserk to get anywhere.

Some characters are just more sympathetic than others. Ganoes Paran starts off as a spoiled merchant's son who's just been rapidly promoted through the system because of Daddy's money/influence. Is it any wonder you struggle to feel for him at first? As the series goes on, characters become far more rounded. Be prepared to later feel sorry for guys you used to hate. You may even end up rooting for some of them!

As for the spoiler, selen free porn movies The Jaghut's power / part of his soul was stored in the acorn. The Jaghut wanted it back, so he could return to his full self. Once it grew, it created an Azath, which you'll learn more about later. They are basically the Malazan universe's self defence mechanism though, growing from power in order to trap / contain powerful creatures. I won't go too far into the nature of the Azath, as they play a fair part in the later story.

If you are more a low fantasy fan, you'll love the next book. While there is magic / magicians, the main storyline is following a bunch of mostly non magical soldiers escorting a huge bunch of refugees across a hostile, rebelling continent. Some of the best characters in it are pretty much 100% non-magical.

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qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Habibi posted:

I think you left out the spoiler from the other thread...

You're right, edited. That's what happens when you copy/paste the post directly instead of checking the version showing tags.

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A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Ccs posted:

Just finished the first book last month, good stuff. I got kind of annoyed with how prevalent magic is in the world, because most edgy fantasy these days (like A Song of Ice and Fire, The First Law, or the manga Berserk) has magic as a thing not many people believe is real or really know about. In Malazan it's just everywhere and some of the lore behind in all just seems excessive. I also felt the first book suffered from too much explanations of magic and history and not enough of making the characters seem three dimensional. I hardly felt anything for Paran even though he's basically the main character. And the ending the pussy cat dolld with that magic tree thing that weakens the Jaghut tyrant and then turns into a house? What the hell was that about?

Despite all those complaints I enjoyed the book, and I'll probably read the second and third over the summer. It's nice that an epic fantasy series is finally done, too. I know I'll be waiting for years for ASoIaF and Berserk to get anywhere.

One thing newcomers don't realize is that the first book in this series was written quite a bit before the rest of the series, as they spent a long time shopping it around and trying to get the series made. As a result, the first book is generally considered to be the weakest, and has slight inconsistencies as far as style and content go. Still, you'll be blown away how many things in the first novel come into play later, and how deeply layered the series is.

But yeah, as far as character development and such go, trust us...It gets way, way better. If you liked book one, by book three you'll be blown away.

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Mar 8, 2004

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A Nice Boy posted:

Meh...Kind of a lackluster thread title. But great OP! Though I think I'd put the chronology things lower...Maybe at the end. Just random unasked for advice.

Also, isn't Erikson an anthropologist, not an archaeologist?

He's both according to Wikipedia. Plus, archaeology is a branch of anthropology.

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Groke
Jul 27, 2007
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A Nice Boy posted:

Still, you'll be blown away how many things in the first novel come into play later, and how deeply layered the series is.

Rereading book 1 after getting a bit further (like halfway or so) in the series is a pretty interesting experience. "So ugly old naked women that's what that meant, and isn't that the guy who did that thing, and gently caress ME SIDEWAYS..."

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


qbert posted:

You're right, edited. That's what happens when you copy/paste the post directly instead of checking the version showing tags.

Hehe - I thought that's what may have happened.

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Icehawk_OS
Aug 2, 2009


What about this mega-thread that already exists?

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I just started Gardens of the Moon, hoping to get into it considering the comparisons to Cook's series and my general love of military fantasy.

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Daico
Aug 17, 2006


02-6611-0142-1 posted:

It looks better that way, you're right. If somebody comes up with a better thread title we can just ask a mod to change it later.

I'm still a fan of "Witness!" personally.

Great OP though!

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


Icehawk_OS posted:

What about this mega-thread that already exists?

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I just started Gardens of the Moon, hoping to get into it considering the comparisons to Cook's series and my general love of military fantasy.

Check the last page of that thread.

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A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Yeah, we've been meaning to start a new megathread for a long time, as the last one is years and years old and has no real OP to speak of.

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Sil
Jan 4, 2007


TCG has arrived!!!!

And I have a full day of school work today and a full day of actual work tomorrow

The wait for tomorrow night is going to suuuuck. Good on Amazon for getting the book to me in just a day though.

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


Been reading TCG sporadically since yesterday - just at the part now where free real sex tv Fid's called together all of the seargeants/etc... for their post-massacre pep rally.

Soo....I assume this probably gets expounded on later, but - free nude wrestling videos did that short bit on QB early on suggest that he's at least part-Andii? Because if so I'm going to be telling a lot of people, "I told you so!"

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Bullio
May 11, 2004

Seriously...



Awesome. New thread, outstanding OP. I love the way you explain the first book, its background and some of the characters. If I had read that originally, I probably would have been able to avoid a couple of false starts and could have dived into it sooner. I have no regrets though, the series is flat out fantastic. I actually get kind of excited when I think about what I might discover on future re-reads.

Also:

Daico posted:

I'm still a fan of "Witness!" personally.

I know I mentioned it in the last thread, but I'm with this guy. I think "Witness!" has a chance to draw new readers in because it has just the right amount of mystery. "Witness? Witness what? Is there something I'm missing? Oh, a free online couples porn finished epic fantasy? What a novel concept!"

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Dec 31, 2007

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Habibi posted:

Soo....I assume this probably gets expounded on later, but - beyond the naked eye did that short bit on QB early on suggest that he's at least part-Andii? Because if so I'm going to be telling a lot of people, "I told you so!"

Nope. Nothing more is said beyond that. So maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I guess we have to wait and see! It does seem likely though.

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A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Not to mention that it's a big theme in the series, and not just with Karsa. The Bonehunters being "unwitnessed," along with a few that need spoilers.

Habibi posted:

.

Soo....I assume this probably gets expounded on later, but - ice t coco sex did that short bit on QB early on suggest that he's at least part-Andii? Because if so I'm going to be telling a lot of people, "I told you so!"

I'm almost done, and there's been nothing about this. So, I doubt it.

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


A Nice Boy posted:

I'm almost done, and there's been nothing about this. So, I doubt it.
loving cock-tease Erikson. That passage sure as hell sounds like he's free drunk mature porn using 'Mother' to refer to 'Mother Dark,' and potentially alluding to himself having drifted away from his Andii-ness due to the time he's spent among humans.

I just wish this got resolved beyond such a vague segment, since the idea of him having Andii heritage is something I'd theorized about several times in the old thread (and which led to at least two arguments on the interpretation of his black skin ).

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A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Habibi posted:

loving cock-tease Erikson. That passage sure as hell sounds like he's totally free porn videos using 'Mother' to refer to 'Mother Dark,' and potentially alluding to himself having drifted away from his Andii-ness due to the time he's spent among humans.

I just wish this got resolved beyond such a vague segment, since the idea of him having Andii heritage is something I'd theorized about several times in the old thread (and which led to at least two arguments on the interpretation of his black skin ).

Well, as we've said in the past, it never describes Quick as being Andii-like at all. It just says that he's black, along with Kalam and most of the other denizens of Seven Cities. Whereas the Andii are very specifically described as being midnight or onyx colored...Pretty big difference, I figure.

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Dec 31, 2007

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A Nice Boy posted:

Well, as we've said in the past, it never describes Quick as being Andii-like at all. It just says that he's black, along with Kalam and most of the other denizens of Seven Cities. Whereas the Andii are very specifically described as being midnight or onyx colored...Pretty big difference, I figure.

Given that Quick has (early series spoiler, I guess?)black snake moan nude 6 other souls in him. it's entirely possible one of those was Andii.

That said, my understanding wasn't that he was (early TCG spoiler)vida guerra have sex Andii as such. He referred to Mother Dark as Mother, and spoke of Father. I can only assume that she was his mother in the same way she was Rake's. As for his father, who is "doing his own thing" or something (from memory here. I know it's made clear he's active) it seems likely that Draconus is the man. After all, he's active, was cozy with MD for a while, and has powerful mage kids already.

So my reasoning is that one of Quick's souls is actually the son of MD and Draconus. He may be Tiste, or may not. After all, with MD as mummy and an elder god as daddy, who knows WHAT the offspring would "naturally" look like?

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Nigulus Rex
Jun 13, 2006


Masonity posted:

Given that Quick has (early series spoiler, I guess?)fat black porn free 6 other souls in him. it's entirely possible one of those was Andii.

That said, my understanding wasn't that he was (early TCG spoiler)biggest boobs ever nude Andii as such. He referred to Mother Dark as Mother, and spoke of Father. I can only assume that she was his mother in the same way she was Rake's. As for his father, who is "doing his own thing" or something (from memory here. I know it's made clear he's active) it seems likely that Draconus is the man. After all, he's active, was cozy with MD for a while, and has powerful mage kids already.

So my reasoning is that one of Quick's souls is actually the son of MD and Draconus. He may be Tiste, or may not. After all, with MD as mummy and an elder god as daddy, who knows WHAT the offspring would "naturally" look like?


I obviously haven't read tCG, but I don't feel like if one blue lagoon nude scene of his souls was Andii, and in fact the son of a Draconus/MD coupling, that he would have agreed to join Quick Ben's "body." That kind of mage would be incredibly powerful, and it'd be logical that they would all join HIM, and not vice versa. I also can't see how the bridgeburners could possibly chase down and kill members of that 'cabal' in the desert prior to the series if one of them was essentially a god ling. So what I guess I am saying is that I disagree with your theory. Though with the wording 'mother' and such that you cite from tCG, I feel like while I still disagree with your theory, it is obviously touching close enough to the issue to make me super curious to know

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


A Nice Boy posted:

Well, as we've said in the past, it never describes Quick as being Andii-like at all. It just says that he's black, along with Kalam and most of the other denizens of Seven Cities. Whereas the Andii are very specifically described as being midnight or onyx colored...Pretty big difference, I figure.

Yeah yeah, we've been over this (and I remember someone getting very heated about this in the old thread), but I still find it telling that Erikson tends to use skin colors literally (blue, black, ochre, rust, etc...) rather than in a way that applies to our own social norms. And for the record, on at least one occasion he describes Rake as having "jet-black" skin (and it is facial features that are referred to as having been 'cut from onyx'). Andarist is described as having skin "black as ebony." Arantha has "black skin faintly dusted." Etc... Again, my point is that he's pretty specific. He describes some as 'midnight,' some as 'black,' some as variations - which to me are intended to get across the slight difference in shades. Hence why, when he describes humans as having 'black' skin, I interpret it as is.

Now, cumm in my pussy I'm using Andii inclusive of not necessarily being Andii, but having MD be his mother even if FD wasn't. And I think, as commented on above, it would make more sense for his original self to be some sort of MD-descendant / Andii-offspring than it would be for him to be human and in possession of an Andii soul. Also, IIRC he has significantly more than 6 souls in him...no?

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Dec 31, 2007

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Nigulus Rex posted:

I obviously haven't read tCG, but I don't feel like if one sex in a kitchen of his souls was Andii, and in fact the son of a Draconus/MD coupling, that he would have agreed to join Quick Ben's "body." That kind of mage would be incredibly powerful, and it'd be logical that they would all join HIM, and not vice versa. I also can't see how the bridgeburners could possibly chase down and kill members of that 'cabal' in the desert prior to the series if one of them was essentially a god ling. So what I guess I am saying is that I disagree with your theory. Though with the wording 'mother' and such that you cite from tCG, I feel like while I still disagree with your theory, it is obviously touching close enough to the issue to make me super curious to know

Well, (early to mid series spoiler)naked hidden camera pics Ben Delat was the weakest magically, but youngest, of the 7 people who set into the desert. One of the others was a mage who had made Dassem retreat a step in a sword fight, for instance. I believe there was some speculation that one was Toblokai. My theory is that Delat was the host because he was the least conspicuous. Some of those souls clearly wanted somewhere to hide out.

As for the Bridgeburners not being able to hunt them down, we've seen many a time before that the most powerful ascendant can have the game turned on them, and mortals are ultimately the biggest danger to even an Elder god.


Habibi posted:

*snip*

What I meant is he had wet pussy porn pictures 7 souls in him, that we know of. Those being his own soul and the souls of the other 6 people he went into the desert with. 6 being his extra souls, not including his own.

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A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

During the story part they describe the souls that Quick absorbs, and it just says that they're the other mages that were in his village. Don't remember the exact wording, but it leads you to believe that it's just the desert mages he was hanging out with. Erikson never says a word to make you believe that one of them is Andii, though I spose it's a possibility. Seems a weird thing to leave out, though.

TCG: sexy naked school girls Also, hey may be talking to Mother Dark and Father Light, but that doesn't mean he's calling them HIS mother and father. They are NAMED Mother Dark and Father Light, so if he's talking to them or whatever he's going to call them Mother and Father, right?

Also, at one point a character observes Quick and Kalam walking together and it describes them as being the same color. So, I dunno...I still think Quick = Andii is pretty farfetched.

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Opal
May 10, 2005

athena king naked news some by their splendor rival the colors of the painters, others the flame of burning sulphur or of fire quickened by oil.


Habibi posted:

Yeah yeah, we've been over this (and I remember someone getting very heated about this in the old thread), but I still find it telling that Erikson tends to use skin colors literally (blue, black, ochre, rust, etc...) rather than in a way that applies to our own social norms. And for the record, on at least one occasion he describes Rake as having "jet-black" skin (and it is facial features that are referred to as having been 'cut from onyx'). Andarist is described as having skin "black as ebony." Arantha has "black skin faintly dusted." Etc... Again, my point is that he's pretty specific. He describes some as 'midnight,' some as 'black,' some as variations - which to me are intended to get across the slight difference in shades. Hence why, when he describes humans as having 'black' skin, I interpret it as is.

i am one of the people who got heated up about it () and i never read it as anything more than Erikson using varied language in describing people and things to avoid repetition.

someone - i don't know if it was you - made the argument that he described kalam as 'black' or 'dark' and quick ben as 'black-skinned' but i feel it's weird to draw the conclusion from that fact that we're meant to think of quick as literally the colour black as in the colour of these spoiler tags or the silent void of space.

i wish i had the books on digital media so i could Ctrl + F the passages where he describes these things so i could come back with some proper arguments.

another thing is also that it's simply illogical to me that one single person would somehow be a different skin colour to what we as humans are used to, even if that single person happens to be the rather extraordinary quick ben. i really feel that if erikson wanted us to imagine his human characters in ways you wouldn't normally expect a human to be or look, he would be a lot more obvious about it, because i can't think of any other instance where a 'standard human' is described as anything but very normal according to our 'social norms'
and finally from what i can remember erikson never said that having these souls within him changed the way he looked.

edit: just making it clear though that these are to me the most interesting points of discussion because it's fascinating how people can read so wildly different things in the same text. that's why i'm sperging out, I'm Not Angry

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

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A Nice Boy posted:

TCG: man's favorite sex position Also, hey may be talking to Mother Dark and Father Light, but that doesn't mean he's calling them HIS mother and father. They are NAMED Mother Dark and Father Light, so if he's talking to them or whatever he's going to call them Mother and Father, right?

Also, at one point a character observes Quick and Kalam walking together and it describes them as being the same color. So, I dunno...I still think Quick = Andii is pretty farfetched.
To the first, you are correct, but the context in which he uses and refers to the names pretty heavily suggests some sort of real maternal connection. I'll have to reread it when I get home from work, as it was pretty late last night when I went through it, but I'm pretty sure this was the case.

To the second, again, I'm not theorizing that he's Andii - dragon ball porn comics my initial theory was that he carries Andii blood, sort of like the Shake, which is different and not at all unprecedented.

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


the periodic fable posted:

i am one of the people who got heated up about it () and i never read it as anything more than Erikson using varied language in describing people and things to avoid repetition.

someone - i don't know if it was you - made the argument that he described kalam as 'black' or 'dark' and quick ben as 'black-skinned' but i feel it's weird to draw the conclusion from that fact that we're meant to think of quick as literally the colour black as in the colour of these spoiler tags or the silent void of space.
Not sure if that was me (I honestly can't recall), but I'll keep returning to the same general point: Erikson really seems to use skin colors literally, and often goes out of his way to describe particular shades. I feel that if he had intended QB to look like a particular ethnicity with which we are familiar (in this case, one of African descent, as a lot of fan art interprets) he would have used specific language to refer to that. A perfect example is that he specifies Rake as having epicanthic folds.

quote:

another thing is also that it's simply illogical to me that one single person would somehow be a different skin colour to what we as humans are used to, even if that single person happens to be the rather extraordinary quick ben. i really feel that if erikson wanted us to imagine his human characters in ways you wouldn't normally expect a human to be or look, he would be a lot more obvious about it, because i can't think of any other instance where a 'standard human' is described as anything but very normal according to our 'social norms'
and finally from what i can remember erikson never said that having these souls within him changed the way he looked.
First, it's not necessarily one person, because there are others in the series (typically of 7C origin) who are described as black-skinned. And I don't think it's a huge leap to imagine a bunch of people having black skin because they're carrying Andii blood from some union from way back when. Second, as I said, Erikson already uses shades of color for which we don't have an analogue. The Napanese, for example, are almost invariably blue-skinned. Finally, again, I haven't made any claims about him carrying around an Andii soul.

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Fuzzy Mammal
Aug 15, 2001



Lipstick Apathy

Finished book one of the Crippled God last night. Probably already covered but I've been avoiding spoilers:

forced sissy sex stories - So, is Quick Ben somehow related directly to Mother Dark? Probably explained later but seriously a pretty big wtf.
- What is the deal with Ruthan Gudd? He's mentioned a few times in DoD but I don't remember him from bonehunters or reapers gale, or the ICE books. Came over from Fist clearly, but I don't recall his introduction at all.
- Anyone notice that the Assail Calm is the one Karsa freed in book 4? Awesome.

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Daico
Aug 17, 2006


the periodic fable posted:

someone - i don't know if it was you - made the argument that he described kalam as 'black' or 'dark' and quick ben as 'black-skinned' but i feel it's weird to draw the conclusion from that fact that we're meant to think of quick as literally the colour black as in the colour of these spoiler tags or x girlfriends nude pics the silent void of space.


This made me chortle and imagine Quick Ben as the villain from Captain Simian and the Space Monkeys (free black sex films) just casually walking around the Bridgeburner camp.

"I have news about the K'Chain Che'Malle!"
"Oh? What's that, Be--OH GOD I SEE ETERNITY IN YOUR FLESH!"


For the record, I side with Quick Ben being Tiste Andii black, but mainly because I think it's cooler that way.

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Weaponized Cum
Aug 31, 2004


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02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



Just finished Stonewielder. Enjoyed it a bunch, except for Kiska. loving hell. In the first book, you could at least say "oh, she's an inexperienced idiot, that's why she doesn't know anything".

But you'd think that someone who had been a claw for many years, and the bodyguard to the most powerful mage in an enormous multicontinental empire, would know some things. Isn't she a mage herself, too? I only vaguely remember. But yeah, she encounters the very beautiful naked women Liosan and is all like "who are they guys, they look like the tiste edur and the tiste andii except instead of being grey or black they are white! I have no idea!" and then leoman says "well obviously, they're the tiste liosan, you downer." and she says "THE TISTE LIOSAN?!?! ARE THEY SOMEHOW RELATED TO THE TISTE EDUR AND ANDII?!?!?!?!" incredulously. Claws should be savvy! Wizards should be savvy! It's retarded that she is written to be so thick. She also spends the whole book saying "nobody respects me, i'm going to go out there and show them how great i am!" and then gets her rear end brutally kicked again and again, proving that everybody else was right, and she is truly useless. Why anyone would choose her for any kind of quest is utterly beyond me, unless the god in question was hoping for some kind of bumbling idiot sitcom to entertain themselves through the boredom of eternal life.

I find it's also kind of hard to remember who is who, because Esslemont's characters don't have memorable personalities like Erikson's do. Other than that though, it was cool, and I'm glad to have read it.

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Illuyankas
Oct 22, 2010



Habibi posted:

First, it's not necessarily one person, because there are others in the series (typically of 7C origin) who are described as black-skinned. And I don't think it's a huge leap to imagine a bunch of people having black skin because they're carrying Andii blood from some union from way back when. Second, as I said, Erikson already uses shades of color for which we don't have an analogue. The Napanese, for example, are almost invariably blue-skinned. Finally, again, I haven't made any claims about him carrying around an Andii soul.
The people from Seven Cities and the desert based Dal Honese have dark brown skin. The jungle based Dal Honese have almost midnight black skin. jonas brothers butt naked The way the marines in the Bonehunters who are that black scare the poo poo out of the Edur while they're invading Lether is a interesting throw-away fact in Reaper's Gale.

I think it's either that kiki vidis free porn one of the souls in Quick is a Tiste Andii soul, or the story Whiskeyjack was told by Quick and then repeated to Rake was a slight amendment of the truth and he's an Andii disguising himself as a human like Rake did when he was a guard or soulshifted himself into another body. It'll explain how he remembers how to do it, too.

I never know when to use spoilers so I'll just assume no-one's read beyond book one at almost any given moment to be safe.

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