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PateraOctopus
Oct 27, 2010

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Wolfe is a author-missionary, but he doesn't want to forcefully convert you. He wants you to convert yourself. It's like he's trying to encapsulate the religious experience porn industry in india itself and preach it, rather than specific theology or Catholic doctrine. This sometimes goes to weird places for a Christian writer; like Latro in the Mist portraying the greek gods and Wolfe saying that he believes that those gods were, at the time, real entities.

One of my favorite bits of the Long Sun books--and one of the parts that sometimes makes me place them above the New Sun--is the completely unexpected treatment of Kypris's divinity. cell phone mobile porn Kypris was Typhon's concubine in life, and he had her uploaded into the Whorl presumably for selfish reasons, giving her the role of the Aphrodite-role of goddess of love and desire in his pantheon. And yet Wolfe portrays her as taking this job seriously, believing wholeheartedly in her "responsibilities" and honestly paying attention to the prayers directed her way. And because she represents love in all its forms--her possessing Maytera Mint is likely responsible for the latter's transformation from timid nun to outspoken defender--she is on her way to "becoming" the Outsider, or an aspect/avatar thereof. It's not presented in a similar way to CS Lewis's "When you were worshiping Tash you were really worshiping Aslan" thing, because Kypris's divinity isn't portrayed as based on a misunderstanding--she's autonomous and separate from the Outsider but no less legitimately divine because of it. Unexpected to read things like that from an unabashedly Catholic writer.

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Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003


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Still haven't read that one. Bought it when it came out, still on my shelf. I understand it's tied up with Memorare somehow--is the connection terribly explicit?

I haven't read Memorare, so I couldn't tell you. An Evil Guest is not Wolfe's best work. It borrows more from early 20th century pulp than it does from Lovecraft, although the Lovecraftian connections become more evident as the novel goes on. Not recommended unless you are a Wolfe completionist.

Speaking of which, I still have a few stand alone Wolfe novels I have yet to read. These are:

(i) Operation Ares (which even Wolfe doesn't like);
(ii) Free Live Free;
(iii) Pirate Freedom;
(iv) Castleview;
(v) Pandora, by Holly Hollander;
(vi) The Devil in a Forest.

Which of these should I track down and which should I ignore?

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Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

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EDIT: Dumb question easily answered by looking at Amazon.

Urth of the New Sun is on Kindle now!

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Xenix
Feb 21, 2003


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Speaking of which, I still have a few stand alone Wolfe novels I have yet to read. These are:

(i) Operation Ares (which even Wolfe doesn't like);
(ii) Free Live Free;
(iii) Pirate Freedom;
(iv) Castleview;
(v) Pandora, by Holly Hollander;
(vi) The Devil in a Forest.

Which of these should I track down and which should I ignore?

I haven't read them all (though someone I met through work recently gave me Castleview when I commented on the Wolfe books on her shelves...), but I really enjoyed Pirate Freedom.

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met art nude gallery How about how he actually rapes Jocasta while on the boat after becoming serious with Dorcas? They go on a lovely boat ride and he decides to help himself to her, not even bothering to hide it, so Dorcas starts weeping as soon as she sees them. In Urth he even says "Some people might call it surprise sex, but I maintain she wanted it"

Yeah, Severian was/is a piece of poo poo to the women in his life and gets karmic retribution when tracking down Dorcas.

While his intent surely makes him a piece of poo poo, it surprises me that this encounter, of all of them in the series, is the one that bothers you. I don't have the books to look back to make sure it happened like this, but I seem to remember that Jolenta was the one who orchestrated the boat trip between the two of them. During the trip, she just lay there half asleep while Severian went about his business. Afterward, Severian was frustrated over how the encounter went exactly because she didn't fight him. I had the impression that Jolenta wanted sex, though possibly only to make Dorcas jealous. After this, Dorcas and Jolenta have a physical altercation. Am I misremembering this?

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BuckarooBanzai
Dec 2, 2004

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After this, Dorcas and Jolenta have a physical altercation. Am I misremembering this?

I won't argue one way or the other about his encounter with Jolenta but it's after this incident that Severian little boy sex story becomes separated from the group . Some time after that Dorcas and Jolenta milley cyrus naked pics become lovers . Though you don't actually find that out, as far as I know, until woman over 60 porn Book 3, after Severian meets little Severian but before he encounters Typhon .

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John McCain
Jan 28, 2009


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I haven't read Memorare, so I couldn't tell you. An Evil Guest is not Wolfe's best work. It borrows more from early 20th century pulp than it does from Lovecraft, although the Lovecraftian connections become more evident as the novel goes on. Not recommended unless you are a Wolfe completionist.

Speaking of which, I still have a few stand alone Wolfe novels I have yet to read. These are:

(i) Operation Ares (which even Wolfe doesn't like);
(ii) Free Live Free;
(iii) Pirate Freedom;
(iv) Castleview;
(v) Pandora, by Holly Hollander;
(vi) The Devil in a Forest.

Which of these should I track down and which should I ignore?


(i) Operation Ares (which even Wolfe doesn't like);

Haven't read this one; no comment.

(ii) Free Live Free;

One of Wolfe's more opaque novels, on the order of Peace. Follows what I will affectionately call a motley crew of broke losers. Interesting cast of characters. Set in ca. mid 20th century Chicago. Ending felt, to me, somewhat deus ex machina-ey. Pro tip: While reading, draw up a timeline and keep careful track of indicators of time.

(iii) Pirate Freedom;

Surprisingly straightforward, adventure on the high seas in the Caribbean. Less intricate than your average Wolfe novel. Relatively unsurprising twist ending.

(iv) Castleview;

Modern-day re-imagining of the Arthurian mythos. Try to work out the correspondences if you can.

(v) Pandora, by Holly Hollander;

Another relatively straightforward tale, especially for Wolfe. Detective story starring a naif.

(vi) The Devil in a Forest.

Coming-of-age story set in the Middle Ages, in what feels like Eastern Europe to me. The characters in this one also feel like archetypes, though I'll be damned if I could correctly identify most of them.



Honestly, I've read and enjoyed all of the books I "reviewed" above. My favorites of the list were probably Castleview and Free Live Free.

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Jul 22, 2007

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I haven't read them all (though someone I met through work recently gave me Castleview when I commented on the Wolfe books on her shelves...), but I really enjoyed Pirate Freedom.


While his intent surely makes him a piece of poo poo, it surprises me that this encounter, of all of them in the series, is the one that bothers you. I don't have the books to look back to make sure it happened like this, but I seem to remember that Jolenta was the one who orchestrated the boat trip between the two of them. During the trip, she just lay there half asleep while Severian went about his business. Afterward, Severian was frustrated over how the encounter went exactly because she didn't fight him. I had the impression that Jolenta wanted sex, though possibly only to make Dorcas jealous. After this, Dorcas and Jolenta have a physical altercation. Am I misremembering this?

It was the most notable incident only because I read Urth of the New Sun which referenced it.

free porn like youtube Other then the mention where he says an outsider might call it surprise sex, all of his other sexual encounters are equally sketchy. Nothing else springs to mind other then the general sense that all Severian's sexual encounters were...complicated at best.

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Jun 26, 2006

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Thoughts on the wizard knight series or there are doors? I remember there are doors being somewhat arcane but I read it long ago, before I was familiar with his other books. I've never read any of the wizard knight books bit I'm curious about them.

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Budgie Jumping
Aug 27, 2007

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Yeah, I think you're misinterpreting it a bit. This isn't a pro-life statement, it's a statement against empty ritual. the simpsons free sex The fact that the objects in question here are embryos isn't a huge part of this passage's importance--it's mainly Silk realizing that the Vironese faith put more emphasis on the literal doctrine of leaving the Seals undisturbed than they did on thinking about fred lampard sex tape why the Seals shouldn't be disturbed, and rejecting that doctrine. Embryos in the Whorl were incredibly valuable because they ensured that the breeding population would never fall below replacement levels--no matter what cataclysms occurred on the interstellar journey, Pas gave them all a backup so that they could still have a sustainable population base when they reached the Blue/Green system. However, the letter of the doctrine became more revered than the logic that led to the doctrine being in place--"Don't disturb my seal, because you might gently caress up the embryos that are your backup in case you near extinction levels" became "Don't disturb my seal." More emphasis is here being placed on respecting the symbolism of the seal than on the rationale for that symbolism's existence in the first place, and as Silk observes the major error in this scriptural logic--if you disturb both the Seal and its contents, you're only going to be chastised for the part with no practical application--he distances himself further from the Faith he was raised in. He doesn't yet know what the deal with the embryos is, but he's realizing that no sanely-ordered universe would place more emphasis on a lock than on the thing behind the door. I don't know if Wolfe is personally pro-life or not--he's vocally Catholic, but he's also incredibly non-dogmatic--but if this was (and I really don't believe it is) intended as a pro-life statement, that sentiment doesn't crop up elsewhere in the series.

Ah! Thanks for this interpretation, man. I think you've saved my Gene Wolfe reading experience. I guess I just never thought an old Catholic dude's lament over embryos could conceivably not be a pro-life statement. What a world we live in.

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Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003


Fallen Rib

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(i) Operation Ares (which even Wolfe doesn't like);

Haven't read this one; no comment.

(ii) Free Live Free;

One of Wolfe's more opaque novels, on the order of Peace. Follows what I will affectionately call a motley crew of broke losers. Interesting cast of characters. Set in ca. mid 20th century Chicago. Ending felt, to me, somewhat deus ex machina-ey. Pro tip: While reading, draw up a timeline and keep careful track of indicators of time.

(iii) Pirate Freedom;

Surprisingly straightforward, adventure on the high seas in the Caribbean. Less intricate than your average Wolfe novel. Relatively unsurprising twist ending.

(iv) Castleview;

Modern-day re-imagining of the Arthurian mythos. Try to work out the correspondences if you can.

(v) Pandora, by Holly Hollander;

Another relatively straightforward tale, especially for Wolfe. Detective story starring a naif.

(vi) The Devil in a Forest.

Coming-of-age story set in the Middle Ages, in what feels like Eastern Europe to me. The characters in this one also feel like archetypes, though I'll be damned if I could correctly identify most of them.



Honestly, I've read and enjoyed all of the books I "reviewed" above. My favorites of the list were probably Castleview and Free Live Free.

Thanks!

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Thoughts on the wizard knight series or there are doors? I remember there are doors being somewhat arcane but I read it long ago, before I was familiar with his other books. I've never read any of the wizard knight books bit I'm curious about them.

I really enjoyed the Wizard Knight. The mythology involved is a little closer to mainstream than most of Wolfe's novels (Norse mythology), although of course he adds his own take on things which distinguishes it, and it has a lot of cool adventure elements which make it a relatively quick read, as far as Wolfe goes. The puzzles are also a little less obtuse.

There Are Doors I found pretty tedious. The setting is not particularly interesting, and I didn't care much for the narrator, who appears at times to be either mentally unwell or not very intelligent.

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John McCain
Jan 28, 2009


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Thoughts on the wizard knight series or there are doors? I remember there are doors being somewhat arcane but I read it long ago, before I was familiar with his other books. I've never read any of the wizard knight books bit I'm curious about them.

"There Are Doors" is about a man who is either mentally ill or has stumbled into interdimensional travel. Because it's Wolfe, either could be true, but my opinion is that nick jonas fake naked the protagonist is one crazy motherfucker . It's a love story (love overcoming obstacles) that extends throughout our world and into another. I enjoyed it, but then again I've never really read anything by Wolfe that I actively disliked.

The Wizard Knight series is about a boy who stumbles into Norse mythology, basically. It's one of his more straightforward series, but I found the ending [of the second book, i.e. the ending of the series] to be somewhat unsatisfying. One thing that sticks out about the series is that the narrator (Wolfe's literary conceit is that the novels are essentially one long-rear end letter that the narrator is writing to his brother) is essentially a "tween" (at least mentally - you'll see what I mean if you read beyond the first ten or twenty pages of the first book). So his motivations are a little gross and unsubtle compared to what you would expect from an adult, and, at least in my opinion, he doesn't grow up too much over the course of the books. I guess the central premise of Wizard Knight is this: Imagine you are a ten or eleven year old boy who (like most boys) is enamored with the concept of knighthood and chivalry, and is somehow transported to a world in which you can live out what are your wildest fantasies - how do you behave?

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John McCain
Jan 28, 2009



As an aside: I am pretty sure that I remember a character jack wrangler porn star literally calling the end of Free Live Free a (literal) deus ex machina, so make sure that sort of thing won't ruin your enjoyment of the story.

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Thinky Whale
Aug 2, 2012

All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Fry.

After reading Book of the New Sun a while back and feeling most of it go right over my head, this thread got me to go and pick up Urth of the New Sun. I'm liking it more because I know to expect something dense and meandering that gives you clues and leaves you to work out their significance.

I'm only at the second chapter and there's already things that feel very Wolfian: the amazing image of Severian shooting up through the huge masts and sails of the spaceship, and that already something important happened that I had to reread and think about before I figured it out.

Severian overshoots and is floating out into space. He throws out the lead box full of his memoirs, and then "at once my destiny seized me and flung me back." It took me a minute to figure out that it was the momentum of throwing the box that made him move in the opposite direction.

It's funny how his seemingly straightforward descriptions obscure things. I'm kept off balance because I never know whether something he talks about is in fact an invention, like the necklace that gives him a "suit of air" to protect him from the vacuum of space, or something familiar, like the picture someone mentioned that he describes as the knight of a dead world and is in fact mary carey in porn the moon landing.

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Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003


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The Wizard Knight series is about a boy who stumbles into Norse mythology, basically. It's one of his more straightforward series, but I found the ending [of the second book, i.e. the ending of the series] to be somewhat unsatisfying. One thing that sticks out about the series is that the narrator (Wolfe's literary conceit is that the novels are essentially one long-rear end letter that the narrator is writing to his brother) is essentially a "tween" (at least mentally - you'll see what I mean if you read beyond the first ten or twenty pages of the first book). So his motivations are a little gross and unsubtle compared to what you would expect from an adult, and, at least in my opinion, he doesn't grow up too much over the course of the books. I guess the central premise of Wizard Knight is this: Imagine you are a ten or eleven year old boy who (like most boys) is enamored with the concept of knighthood and chivalry, and is somehow transported to a world in which you can live out what are your wildest fantasies - how do you behave?

My take was that Able DID grow up significantly, but was still short of developing a fully realised set of morals. That was my general impression, anyway. I can think of plenty of examples of him being a loving arsehole in the first book based on his flawed understanding of the world but not many either way from the second book, anyway. Which may indicate I just wasn't reading the second book closely enough, to be sure. It didn't bother me too much because I found the setting and other characters interesting.

Edit: alright gently caress it, time for a reread, because this duology is fun.

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PateraOctopus
Oct 27, 2010

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I haven't read Memorare, so I couldn't tell you. An Evil Guest is not Wolfe's best work. It borrows more from early 20th century pulp than it does from Lovecraft, although the Lovecraftian connections become more evident as the novel goes on. Not recommended unless you are a Wolfe completionist.

That seems to be its reputation. I already own it, so I'm committed at this point, but I'm in no hurry.

quote:

Speaking of which, I still have a few stand alone Wolfe novels I have yet to read. These are:

(i) Operation Ares (which even Wolfe doesn't like);
(ii) Free Live Free;
(iii) Pirate Freedom;
(iv) Castleview;
(v) Pandora, by Holly Hollander;
(vi) The Devil in a Forest.

Which of these should I track down and which should I ignore?

Operation Ares is nearly impossible to find, and it was heavily edited down from what Wolfe wanted it to be, besides which he himself looks on it largely as a learning experience and nothing else as you said, so you can probably put that on the bottom of the list. I'm pretty close to a Wolfe completionist (dig the username), but I have no interest in that one.

Pirate Freedom is entertaining and as close to "edutainment" as Wolfe is ever likely to get--it's largely just a travelogue of a 21st-century kid living in the golden age of piracy, so if you're interested in that time period it's a pretty good resource, but not much of it stuck with me after I finished it except the twist at the end. I really enjoyed The Devil in a Forest, though it's not what you'd call a "rewarding" read--you'll leave with a lot of questions that might not have answers. Still, it's well-written and a nice look at medieval peasant life.

Free Live Free, Castleview and Pandora by Holly Hollander I haven't read--I'm most interested in the latter, because to my knowledge it's the only instance where Wolfe wrote first-person from a woman's perspective, at least in novel form. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find it for sale in any stores, and when I got it from the library the backpack it was in was stolen before I could read it.

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Lex Talionis
Feb 5, 2011


From what I've seen online, most people don't like Wizard Knight, but I love it. Some reasons:

Wolfe is unusual in that a lot of the dramatic tension in his novels revolves around the metaphysics of the world. Severian spends a while trying to understand how and why the Claw works and doesn't work, for example, and the revelation of the true nature of the universe (and Severian's life) is the climax to Citadel of the Autarch, not some sort of single combat showdown. Wizard Knight kicks all this up to 11. For instance, early on the main character gets a somewhat magic dog. For a long time he keeps coming back to wondering i shot myself nude why the dog is magic, and this isn't an idle thought...it really matters.

Throughout the novel these questions are asked again and again, of almost everything. In another book it might be tedious, but I think the world is fascinating. Someone already mentioned the heavy use of Norse mythology, but that mythology is worked seamlessly into a neo-Platonic universe. Able accumulates magical artifacts (and encounters magical entities) at an incredible rate, so much so that I think Wolfe must consciously have tried to put every possible cliche in: flying horse, magic sword, talking dog, talking cat, etc. Some people think Able is a wish-fulfillment Gary Stu because of he gets loaded down with so much gear. But each one of these things has an explanation that not only fits beautifully into the world system but also is important.

But aside from the metaphysical elements, there's a very serious examination of how the powerful should act. This is another thing that trips people up: they think the author is endorsing Able's behavior in the first book. Most stories have the hero start from humble beginnings. Wolfe has the hero start by not being at all a hero. Able's journey toward actually being good is also, I think, a lot more clearly laid out than Severian's.

Finally, while the surface story is straightforward and (by Wolfe standards) relatively easy to follow, there are vast depths to excavate. I guess that can't really be quantified but I would say there's more hidden meaning than the New Sun books. Unlike in New Sun, the true nature of the world is never laid out even in brief. Last time I reread it (for probably the third or fourth time) I made pages of notes and felt I was getting close to understanding it all, but it's going to take at least one more trip through, and that's probably too optimistic. But as ever with Wolfe, I think the truth is out there.

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Lex Talionis
Feb 5, 2011


As for Castleview, I didn't like it all that much. It's written in a dime paperback page-turner style: short chapters, each of which ends on a cliffhanger. I can't help but see it as more of a writing exercise than anything else, though of course there's a lot of the usual Wolfean business of hidden identities, misunderstood magic, and so on. In Castleview I felt that without knowing a lot more about Arthuriana I had no chance of ever getting close to understanding what was going on. Because Wolfe holds so much back he's always running close to incomprehensibility. The second Latro book was like that, and I thought Castleview was even worse.

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I still don't really know what I'm supposed to think about the Latro books

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Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

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I realize this is pretty small compared to some of the revelations you might stumble over, but I'm on my second read of BotNS and it just occurred to me woman have sex dog Triskele was already dead when Severian found him, wasn't he?

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Finally, while the surface story is straightforward and (by Wolfe standards) relatively easy to follow, there are vast depths to excavate. I guess that can't really be quantified but I would say there's more hidden meaning than the New Sun books. Unlike in New Sun, the true nature of the world is never laid out even in brief. Last time I reread it (for probably the third or fourth time) I made pages of notes and felt I was getting close to understanding it all, but it's going to take at least one more trip through, and that's probably too optimistic. But as ever with Wolfe, I think the truth is out there.

If you want to make a spoiler-filled effort post about this at some point I would like to read it.

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I realize this is pretty small compared to some of the revelations you might stumble over, but I'm on my second read of BotNS and it just occurred to me angelina jolie lesbian pictures Triskele was already dead when Severian found him, wasn't he?

It's been a while since I read it and I don't remember reaching that specific conclusion, what convinced you that was the case?

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Feb 5, 2011


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If you want to make a spoiler-filled effort post about this at some point I would like to read it.
I'd like to do another reread first (I've read so much wildly wrong stuff about New Sun I can't help but fear I'm similarly deluded) but it will be a few weeks minimum before I get to it.

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It's been a while since I read it and I don't remember reaching that specific conclusion, what convinced you that was the case?
"He lay on his side, covered with blood. It was as hard as tar in the cold, and still bright red because the cold had preserved it. I went over and put my hand on his head--I don't know why. He seemed as dead as the rest, but he opened one eye then and rolled it at me."

sex position for him Not 100% either way, I think, but when I reread it a month or two ago I read it the same way as Tuxedo Catfish.

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Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003


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Mar 17, 2007

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It's been a while since I read it and I don't remember reaching that specific conclusion, what convinced you that was the case?

Pretty much what Lex Talionis said, plus I thought it would be strange for a guild that literally marries its animals to throw a live animal into a garbage pit.

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xiw
Sep 25, 2011



Free Live Free's definitely worth a read, it's genuinely funny and the twists are completely not what you expect.

I think I recall someone speculating that the 'marrying their animals' thing is just Severian hearing about 'animal husbandry' and getting it Completely Wrong.

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I think I recall someone speculating that the 'marrying their animals' thing is just Severian hearing about 'animal husbandry' and getting it Completely Wrong.

Holy poo poo.

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cemaphonic
Jan 1, 2011


I always thought this was a nice touch:

Severian posted:

He mispronounced quite common words: urticate, salpinx, bordereau.

It's mostly just Wolfe pointing fun at the baroque vocabulary he uses in BOTNS, but once I looked up the definitions of those words, they actually are words that Master Gurloes would have a reason to know.

Anyone have any thoughts on asian amateur porn free Peace? I enjoyed it, but as typical with Wolfe, felt like I was missing a bunch on the first reading. Anything interesting or important to watch out for on a reread? nude at beach pics Other than the central narrative conceit of the book - I worked that out before I was spoiled about the tree. I think the oddness of his first doctor visit got me thinking along the right lines, and all the stories about ghosts confirmed it.

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free long porn video I'm fairly sure you're correct. I think it might come up in the last book.
Yes, it's toward the end of the last book when Severian figures out that 6 teen full episodes he's always had the power to bring the dead back to life, even before he got the Claw. I think Triskele is one of the details added by the Heirodules to the original Severian's history to change him into someone who can bring the New Sun.

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I just started reading Book of the Long Sun again and realized (this probably isn't anything amazing) but basically everything Silk does is probably influenced by him being enlightened at the very beginning. He gets a glimpse of everything and then from that point on his decisions are probably influenced by that...what to do, etc. Kind of a play on fate and controlling your destiny, perhaps

Or I"m completely wrong, I dunno

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I just started reading Book of the Long Sun again and realized (this probably isn't anything amazing) but basically everything Silk does is probably influenced by him being enlightened at the very beginning. He gets a glimpse of everything and then from that point on his decisions are probably influenced by that...what to do, etc. Kind of a play on fate and controlling your destiny, perhaps

Or I"m completely wrong, I dunno

It's certainly got an influence on him, but he's very frequently surprised--he states multiple times that he immediately forgot most of what he saw because it wasn't like normal "seeing," so he tends to only remember bits when something reminds him of it. free black porn websites He also didn't get that "save the manteion" meant "save the people who make up your congregation" rather than "save the building," so the enlightenment really only presented him with raw data without giving him an idea of what to do with it. He didn't know he was going to get shot, for instance, and the Outsider deliberately misled him with the "expect no help" bit. The enlightenment was less the Outsider showing him what was going to happen and more the Outsider revealing to him the nature of the universe and his own whorl, but in such a way that he wasn't able to comprehend most of it for more than a moment. The majority of what he saw was less immediately important to his mission than girls lick own pussy the fact that he saw it.

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Sep 30, 2005

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Yeah I wasn't exactly thinking that he saw his entire path layed out exactly before him, but the coincidences that happen immediately afterwards made me kind of thing he was subconsciously acting on the information he did receive. But maybe I'm making too much of that

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Budgie Jumping
Aug 27, 2007

Bonus.


I just finished rose mc gowan naked The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories and I recommend it to everyone. All the stories are at least cool, and some of them are just Wolfe mindfuckery of the most outrageous variety. It also features the best prose I've read from him (having only read New Sun and half of Long Sun), which is some excellent prose indeed. It was also cool to see him trying out some of the plot devices he makes use of in New Sun and the Latro books (fact-coloring or amnesiac narrators), and that whole unreliable narrator shtick works great in such small doses. Read it, y'all.

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Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003


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I just finished completely free cartoon porn The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories and I recommend it to everyone. All the stories are at least cool, and some of them are just Wolfe mindfuckery of the most outrageous variety. It also features the best prose I've read from him (having only read New Sun and half of Long Sun), which is some excellent prose indeed. It was also cool to see him trying out some of the plot devices he makes use of in New Sun and the Latro books (fact-coloring or amnesiac narrators), and that whole unreliable narrator shtick works great in such small doses. Read it, y'all.

I think my favourite of those stories is Seven American Nights. The narrator is really unlike most of Wolfe's normal view points and it's one of his more interesting near future settings (which, to be fair, isn't saying that much since he's never been that great at that kind of thing).

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02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



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I still don't really know what I'm supposed to think about the Latro books

There are things about them that I enjoyed, but you need to be a really hardcore ancient history buff to get the most out of them, I think. I *thought* I knew a lot about that period of time until I read the first two books and they were nearly completely incomprehensible. I still have no loving idea what happened at the end of book two. borat naked fight uncensored A slave revolt or something? I couldn't find any information on it.

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Lex Talionis
Feb 5, 2011


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I still have no loving idea what happened at the end of book two. free hot lesbian movies A slave revolt or something? I couldn't find any information on it.
Reading it myself I had absolutely no idea what was happening, but after long study of the writings of the Talmudic scholars of the urth mailing list, I can tell you at least this much about the thick black nude girls slave revolt (but I must be vague because it has been some years):

sexy secretaries having sex Ordinarily the helots (slaves) were not allowed to have any access to weapons, but due to the military emergency the Spartans armed some and allowed them to fight. When the situation was secure, they held a big manumission ceremony to give freedom to these helots. Except the Spartans were afraid of helots, particularly that these helots would lead the others into revolt. So during the ceremony they murder them all. Latro is at the ceremony too because he also is being freed, and not being a helot he's not murdered. They don't allow him to write down the details so the text we read is confusing and he himself almost immediately forgets what happened. But the horrible sight of the helots getting murdered and the betrayal it represented left an emotional mark that was not erased on his amnesia and leaves him depressed for the last section of the novel.

In an pictures of white pussy while discussing how nasty the Spartans were Wolfe mentions this and acts like this was a thing that happened. The historical account it is based on is somewhat more equivocal:

"Once, when they were afraid of the number and vigour52 of the Helot youth, this was what they did: They proclaimed that a selection would be made of those Helots who claimed to have rendered the best service to the Lacedaemonians in war, and promised them liberty. The announcement was intended to test them; it was thought that those among them who were foremost in asserting their freedom would be most high-spirited, and most likely to rise against their masters. So they selected about two thousand, who were crowned with garlands and went in procession round the temples; they were supposed to have received their liberty; but not long afterwards the Spartans put them all out of the way, and no man knew how any one of them came by his end." -- Thucydides, Book IV

No mention of murder actually at the ceremony; in fact the murder happens at least a little time afterward. Also it's not situated within Thucydides' (quite reliable) historical narrative, it's this anecdote just floating around..."I heard that one time they even did this horrible thing..." What he's actually talking about is a totally different incident where the Spartans armed some helots and sent them to help some cities rebelling against Athenian control.

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02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



Oh, awesome, thanks! I've been wondering about that for a long time. Maybe I will even try the third book.

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Popular Human
Jul 17, 2005

and if it's a lie, terrorists made me say it

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I haven't read Memorare, so I couldn't tell you. An Evil Guest is not Wolfe's best work. It borrows more from early 20th century pulp than it does from Lovecraft, although the Lovecraftian connections become more evident as the novel goes on. Not recommended unless you are a Wolfe completionist.

Speaking of which, I still have a few stand alone Wolfe novels I have yet to read. These are:

(i) Operation Ares (which even Wolfe doesn't like);
(ii) Free Live Free;
(iii) Pirate Freedom;
(iv) Castleview;
(v) Pandora, by Holly Hollander;
(vi) The Devil in a Forest.

Which of these should I track down and which should I ignore?

I have actually read all of these, except for O:A (I actually have a beat up paperback copy of it, I just haven't gotten around to it, mostly because from skimming the first 30 pages or so it seems like a pulpy and very un-Wolfean sci-fi novel)

Free Live Free: pretty good book, the ending is kind of abrupt. Has some of the more compelling characters in a Wolfe novel. I didn't really "get" the twist and the historical timeline at the back of the book didn't help.

Pirate Freedom: Probably my favorite 'new' Wolfe book (meaning post-Short Sun, basically). Really fun adventure novel with some life lessons and a deeper twist which I'll spoil: disney the replacements porn Crisoforo is basically the most despicable Wolfe narrator since Severian, trying to convince the reader that he's a 'boy's adventure-esque hero. Also like Severian he's living in a time loop. Recommended.

Castleview: Hands down the worst Wolfe novel I've read. The chapters are all four pages long and all follow the same pattern of "conversation-conversation-HORROR STINGER-next chapter." Very bleh book.

Pandora by Holly Hollander: I actually really like this book, but it's either the most straightforward book Wolfe has ever written or even more subtle then 'Suzanne Delage'. It doesn't seem like there's much more subtext then "detective novel set in the 50's starring a rebellious proto-hippie girl."

The Devil in a Forest: Awesome book. Does a way better job of throwing in subtle Lovecraft references then An Evil Guest, and has what may be the only realistic depiction of medieval life to make it into a fantasy novel.

So yeah, I'd definitely pick up TDiaF and Pirate Freedom, and maybe Pandora and Free Live Free if you ever hit that completist, "gotta read every Gene Wolfe novel" stage. If you do, don't skip the short story collections, they're honestly some of Wolfe's best work.

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redreader
Nov 2, 2009

hot red head lesbian I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.


I've read almost everything by gene wolfe (haven't finished home fires and the sorcerer's house).

The book of the Long sun and the book of the short sun were sort of a let-down the first time I read them: BOTLS seemed boring and BOTNS seemed like it was full of unsatisfying half-experiences (I remember being pissed that there wasn't as much talk of Green, on 'in green's jungles' as I wanted). Now I think they're great books, and I especially enjoy BOTNS, which I think is possibly the best part of the solar cycle.

A few things nobody seems to have mentioned, about Silk:
brother eats sisters pussy whether or not he's an actual clone of typhon is not really the point. I think the point was that there are many genetically engineered specimens with super powers e.g. Mucor, and the Silk clone was meant to have an aura of leadership. When the whorl arrives at the Short Sun solar system, Pas/Typhon was supposed to download his mind into Silk's clone (which was not supposed to have been activated until then). Instead, Pas and his family were at war for quite a while, and Pas was so damaged that he needed someone else's (Silk's) mind to make his personality whole again.

Severian: watch anime sex online I know there's a weird clone/replacement 'sev 1/2/3' theory but I don't really know it. What I took away from Severian being the conciliator is: The resurrection power of the conciliator (that he gets from the heirodules in Urth of the new sun) affects his past too. He has the power of resurrecting people around him. More importantly, he resurrects himself a number of times. Deaths I can think of for now:
-Drowned in the river in the first few pages of the first book.
-killed by the avern
Urth of the new sun:
-killed by some zoo escapee as he was running up the stairs.
-shot by a big cannon/gun when he gets back to Nessus.

I suppose this bit is explicit in the text, but: Dorcas was a corpse buried in the water of the avern lake. He touched her and resurrected her. The boatman looking for the woman may have been his grandfather. Later when Dorcas wants to die, she coughs up stones, that were used to bury her underwater.


Apart from that, I think his short stories are not getting enough love in this thread. I love his short story collections! Death of doctor island and other stories and other stories, strange travellers, they're mostly great. There are the odd stories that I don't really get and never will (there's a talking bellybutton story?) but some "the monday man" will give me the creeps forever.

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Womyn Capote
Jul 5, 2004




I assumed the multiple Severians are tied into the secret of time that Malrubius taught him. the hottest women naked That each time the universe is born and dies is a sort of "universal day" and that everything plays out similarly but slightly different each universal day, which the Heirogrammate watches over from Yesod and manipulates affairs to a degree, trying to create the perfect situation which would drive humanity towards divine evolution as they had for themselves.

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BuckarooBanzai
Dec 2, 2004

Wherever you go, there you are.

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In Urth of The New Sun The Hierodules naked woman pictures free mention putting him back together multiple times after dying. Specifically: girl next door nude falling to his death on Tzadkiel's ship and being killed by the villagers as Apu-Punchau.

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Dick Nipples
Feb 27, 2011

Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.


I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like some of Wolfe's stuff is non-sensical.

I've read three of the four books in BoTNS. I read the first three in succession and then took a break. barbara ann moore nude I'm struggling to convince myself to finish the fourth. I found the writing of the first three interesting but at times tedious. I hate leaving things unfinished but I can't seem to get up the energy to focus on the last book.

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