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EyeRChris
Mar 3, 2010

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I forget which Cain book had the Metal Men in it. Kinda shows that the AI could still be made but the robots pretty much go into "Crush Kill Destroy Swag" mode instantly.

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Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
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Makes you wonder who the hecked programmed "Crush Kill Destroy Swag" into their OS in the first place.

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lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003

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Makes you wonder who the hecked programmed "Crush Kill Destroy Swag" into their OS in the first place.

Open source most likely.

And what exactly is the machine spirit? I always thought it was the dumbed down mechanicum not fully understanding their own technology anymore, so they devolved back into believing in something like god of machines.

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Cat Planet
Jun 26, 2010



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And what exactly is the machine spirit? I always thought it was the dumbed down mechanicum not fully understanding their own technology anymore, so they devolved back into believing in something like god of machines.

A part of it is that (I'm going to pray to the machine spirit of my toilet to prevent it from backing up!!! ) but as Nephilm said there are also advanced machine spirits which are not unlike programs/AIs.

Also because of the warp fuckery stuff like weapons/armor can sometimes remember its previous owners, which is attributed to the machine spirit. The fluff has some ancient power armor suits that help their wearers fight, etc.

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Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
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Open source most likely.

And what exactly is the machine spirit? I always thought it was the dumbed down mechanicum not fully understanding their own technology anymore, so they devolved back into believing in something like god of machines.
The tech-priests think every machine, from a vibrator to a titan walker, is a living thing inhabited by a spirit. This spirit must be appeased through proper rites, otherwise it will become stubborn or irritated and thus malfunction. A rite is just as likely to involve prayers and incense as lubricants and screwdrivers. Every machine spirit is a child of the Machine God, the source of all technological knowledge.

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Mr.48
May 1, 2007


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They use AIs; advanced machine spirits are just that (more basic ones are expert systems, and lower is just general programming or not even a thing). However, they're not fashioned to think like humans, but instead be like sort of an animal sapience related to its task. You could say, for instance, that the AI that drives a Land Raider is like an attack dog in scope and personality. And that fulfills the edict: you may not fashion an artificial construct in the likeness of man.

I've always understood those to be advanced programs tailored to a particular task, not true AI's since they are not sentient or capable of learning new behaviors.

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Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
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I read some tech-priests also replace parts of their brains with electronics, becoming living computers themselves comparable to any AI you see in sci-fi.

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Ephemeron
May 10, 2012

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I actually enjoyed the Soul Drinker books, at least the ones that I read. (2nd and 3rd) They weren't amazing, but I was entertained.

Did they ever use their titular soul drinking ability in any of those books? Or do they continue to act like generic Chaos Space Marines?

In the first book, as far as I recall, it was offhandedly mentioned at the very beginning (when Sarpedon consumed the soul of some mutant) and then completely forgotten.

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berzerkmonkey
Jul 23, 2003


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I read some tech-priests also replace parts of their brains with electronics, becoming living computers themselves comparable to any AI you see in sci-fi.
Parts are replaced, but they are still "human" brains. Just more calculating and logical. A true AI would be built from the ground up and has the capability of becoming self-aware and learning.

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I've always understood those to be advanced programs tailored to a particular task, not true AI's since they are not sentient or capable of learning new behaviors.
They're sentient, but it's an animal sentience. Animals learn, but they rely on instinct more than anything else. There have been some descriptions of Titans using actual animal sentience as their base level of programming. Warlord Titans are grizzly bears, Warhounds are dogs or wolves, etc. I want to say it was Abnett in the Titan comic that said this...

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branedotorg
Jun 19, 2009


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I know what the fluff says, but what purpose did the writers have in mind to establish that in the first place? Why did they decide that EDIs and HAL 9000s were unsuitable for their particular vision of the 41st millennium? It was just so that they could use servitors?

Keeps the base level of technology down too. No AIs to help with research, meaning dudes in armour still use hand weapons and prey before replacing a spark plug.

Enough on that though

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Kegslayer
Jul 23, 2007


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I forget which Cain book had the Metal Men in it. Kinda shows that the AI could still be made but the robots pretty much go into "Crush Kill Destroy Swag" mode instantly.

I think it was an Abnett book with Gaunt finding an STC.

Last bit about the AI ban, the whole crusade to reunite humanity was also a way of promoting humanity first and only above all others. Come 40k, I always thought that the Imperium sees anything sentient that isn't remotely genetically connected to humanity as an abomination. Programmed robots, targeting systems and virtual intelligence machines are okay because you do need a human to code the software but a true AI that was self aware and could learn, mature and think and eventually challenge it's designer would disrupt the natural balance of humanity as the top and only sentient species allowed to live in the galaxy.

Back to book talk, I've just finished reading Know No Fear and I really liked the way that Abnett has portrayed the Ultramarines as the 'ideal' marine justifying a lot of the love that GW seems to give the Ultramarines.

(Mild spoilers)guy on dog porn Whereas the other Primarchs focused on training soldiers and warriors, Guilliman is portrayed as being far sighted enough to prepare his men to become the future regents and leaders of the Imperium. Guilliman, despite being the perfect nice guy, also seems to have doubts about being used as a poster boy and is well aware that he is disliked by many of the other Primarchs.

The ending seems typical Abnett but it's definitely one of the better HH books that Abnett has written so go pick it up if you have the chance.

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berzerkmonkey
Jul 23, 2003


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The ending seems typical Abnett but it's definitely one of the better HH books that Abnett has written so go pick it up if you have the chance.
"Better HH books?" I would go as far to say "Best HH book." In my eyes, it has been the first time ever that the Ultramarines have been portrayed that well.

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Greataval
Mar 26, 2010


I personally think Mechanicum is a under rated book a lot of good bits and a decent story about the fall of mars . Is ctan still a thing because ?

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rocket_Magnet
Apr 5, 2005



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Speaking of the missing primarchs. I know there isn't much detail about them but it seems like in Heresy they seem to hint pretty strongly that one of them killed the other and Russ was forced to sanction the aggressor.

I think I got most of this impression from Prospero Burns.

That's a shady reference to the two missing legions, the 2nd and 11th there's little to no information about those two legions aside from mentions in conversations between primarchs in Prospero Burns, a Thousand Sons, and the First Heretic.

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Kinetica
Aug 16, 2011


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That's a shady reference to the two missing legions, the 2nd and 11th there's little to no information about those two legions aside from mentions in conversations between primarchs in Prospero Burns, a Thousand Sons, and the First Heretic.

Look man, that little incident never happened. Nope. Never.


Also- in a few of the HH books they talk about the AI's going rogue and thats why they were banned during the crusade/after.

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Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
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How many astropaths does the Imperium have (per planet, per ship, etc)? From what I've pieced together, they don't have very many, so they can't handle the bulk of Imperial communications. Is the rest handled by messenger ships?

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Feb 18, 2012

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Any planet with an Adeptus Terra presence will have astropaths.

Despite despising them, the Imperium can't function without psykers.

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Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
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Do the people who come into regular contact with psykers and depend on their services treat them a little better? I can't imagine how a rogue trader is going to get any business done if his navigator has locked himself in a closet devouring a bucket of ice cream because of some careless witch joke he made.

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As a generalization, the Imperium and its citizens hate psykers.

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Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

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Hate and fear them, don't forget. Most people won't talk poo poo at a navigator's face, because they're witches that can kill you with a single glance from their warp eye.

Astropaths, however, get so much poo poo from everyone unless they're really high ranking.

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Immanentized
Mar 17, 2009



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Hate and fear them, don't forget. Most people won't talk poo poo at a navigator's face, because they're witches that can kill you with a single glance from their warp eye.

Astropaths, however, get so much poo poo from everyone unless they're really high ranking.

One of the "Battles" books has the Ultramarines treating Tiberius or whatever as a complete outsider, despite him being buddies with the chapter master and the dude who figured out how to beat the hive fleet. Doesn't matter who or what you are, but if you are a psyker, you are on the absolute bottom of the heap.

Also I would recommend picking up the BL novella Crimson Fist, it's a pretty good background on the Imperial Fists, Templars, and the Crimson Fists.

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Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
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The astropaths need to unionize, then, like the Navigators did. A little tricky since they don't have family networks, but they thai nude body massage can communicate with each other at will.

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Could the Gods of Chaos be somehow blamed for humanity's state? It seems odd that all humanity has languished in superstition and ignorance for 10,000 years. 10,000 years ago, we were banging rocks together and barking at the moon. Or maybe humanity really is nothing without the Emperor's active influence. My guess is that humanity's original rise, before the Age of Strife, was the result of the Emperor's influence. He went around encouraging rationalism, science, and progressive social movements, perhaps occasionally posing as a famous historical luminary. After the Horus Heresy, his influence ended and humanity regressed to its natural barbaric state.

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Nephilm
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There's this thing called the Age of Strife. You should read up on it.

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Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

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Yeah, the height of mankind's power is roughly the year 20,000, at which point psykers appeared and everything got all hosed up. Anyway, can we please keep fluff discussion related to specific BL books? I don't think this is really the thread for people's inane theories on which Manhattan Project scientist was secretly the Emperor.

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Nephilm
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I think general fluff discussion is fine here, since the traditional games thread mostly limits itself to the modelling and gaming aspect.

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Polpoto
Oct 14, 2006



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I think general fluff discussion is fine here, since the traditional games thread mostly limits itself to the modelling and gaming aspect.

I agree, I really don't have any interest in reading about the modeling/tabletop aspects of 40k.

Not every question/discussion is going to be about someone's inane theories.

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Sep 11, 2005


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As a generalization, the Imperium and its citizens hate psykers.

Though another theme in the fluff is just how enormous and varied the Imperium truly is. The only real requirements for being a part of the Imperium is to revere the Emperor (in any form, be it sun god or ancestor spirit or whatever), round up all psykers for the Black Ships, hate all mutants and aliens, and pay your taxes. That's it. The rest, you can basically do whatever you want and can get away with in front of the local branches of the Inquisition.

It's possible that there are indeed planets that are socially more friendly to psykers, so long as they still gather them up for screening. The Librarians in some Space Marine Chapters, for instance, are definitely considered to be of high-status and given leadership roles.

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Dodoman
Feb 26, 2009



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It's too much to go through the tabletop thread looking for fluff, especially since I hate looking at models (because then I'll want to buy all of them). This thread makes discussing/catching up on fluff much more accessible.

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Greataval
Mar 26, 2010


But then u end buying books for small fluff bits like xenology.

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It's possible that there are indeed planets that are socially more friendly to psykers, so long as they still gather them up for screening. The Librarians in some Space Marine Chapters, for instance, are definitely considered to be of high-status and given leadership roles.
There are planets where the populous is friendly to psykers. But they've all fallen to Chaos. The problem is, if you get chummy with a psyker, you're not going to want to send him/her off to the Blackships. So you hide the psyker. Then that psyker becomes a conduit for some greater daemon because he/she never a)had the training to control the psychic powers; or b)was put down by the Inquisition.

Of course, this is an overgeneralization, but it's pretty par for the course. Psykers are to be feared for a reason - they can really ruin your day if left unchecked.

As for the Marines, they don't go out and selectively choose psykers - their psykers happen to be recruits who show an aptitude for psychic powers.

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Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

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As for the Marines, they don't go out and selectively choose psykers - their psykers happen to be recruits who show an aptitude for psychic powers.

Except for a certain Chapter that does just that for all recruits.

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Baron Bifford
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There's this thing called the Age of Strife. You should read up on it.
Which ended 10,000 years ago. Why hasn't humanity picked itself up?

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Which ended 10,000 years ago. Why hasn't humanity picked itself up?

Because all the STC's were lost or destroyed. One of the "end game" scenarios for the Imperium crushing everyone else is the discovery of a fully-functional STC.

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Cooked Auto
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I think it was an Abnett book with Gaunt finding an STC.

If I remember right the book in question was First and Only but it was so corrupted it was pretty much useless to anybody.

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What if it just replicates houses ?

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What if it just replicates houses ?

I think it was the same Abnett book where they mention a case where two scouts found an ancient STC print-out for a better way to make a combat knife. In the end, they were rewarded with a planet each for their discovery.

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Demiurge4
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I think it was the same Abnett book where they mention a case where two scouts found an ancient STC print-out for a better way to make a combat knife. In the end, they were rewarded with a planet each for their discovery.

It still gets to me that Horus didn't try to trick that one planet into giving him the only fully functional STC in the galaxy. And instead went balls out invasion and had it blown up in Angrons face.

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Oct 20, 2010

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I would like to thank the people in this thread and the previous for recommendations. After playing the WH40k games thanks to steam sales I wanted to read some of the fluff. The threads pointed me at Eisenhorn and Ravenor and I've enjoyed them. Now I have the two Gaunts omnibuses waiting for me.

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CommissarMega
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What if it just replicates houses ?

Then each house will be unto a fortress, capable of keeping a family in perfect comfort even on Lava Hellworldius III. Seriously, their tractor engines can run on practically any combination of combustible material, Baneblades were a dime a dozen, their civilian hinting rifles are the primary weapon of the Imperium. poo poo, they even moved the Solar System to the middle of a stabilized Galactic Centre just so Earth could be the literal as well as figurative centre of the human empire.

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