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The Rooster
Jul 25, 2004

If you've got white people problems I feel bad for you son
I've got 99 problems but being socially privileged ain't one


Not to mention, if you gently caress up, ala Little Man, you get dealt with rather harshly.

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MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

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Little Man was bugging out.

If you stayed cool and kept your mouth shut you would usually be ok. Unless you're D'Angelo.

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DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009


I guess it makes sense that someone who routinely goes into situations where he gets shot gets more money then someone who doesn't. And not only do they face more risks but require more skill as well. Plus, muscle gets you territory. I'm not sure how much money a single corner makes but you need to have that corner somehow and then hold it. The soldiers basically net you more money then a low level dealer in the end.

Besides, the top level drug guys also get privileges. They just aren't holding the corners. Stringer Bell handles the financal/distribution side in current season. Monk in later seasons seemed to be Marlo's no. 2 and he wasn't a soldier.

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Schenck v. U.S.
Sep 8, 2010


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I guess it makes sense that someone who routinely goes into situations where he gets shot gets more money then someone who doesn't. And not only do they face more risks but require more skill as well. Plus, muscle gets you territory. I'm not sure how much money a single corner makes

In a later episode this season the squad nails Wee-Bey making a pickup on the morning take from the projects, and from the amount they extrapolate that the Barksdale organization grosses about $60,000 per day. The towers are most profitable, then the pit, then the corners. They actually have five high-rise towers (I looked it up, since the projects were a real place) but I don't know how many corners. Most likely it runs several thousand per corner per day. Freamon guesses the organization's overhead (i.e. salaries, expenses, and spillage), to be about 20%.

quote:

but you need to have that corner somehow and then hold it.

That's Marlo's story, really.

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DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009


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In a later episode this season the squad nails Wee-Bey making a pickup on the morning take from the projects, and from the amount they extrapolate that the Barksdale organization grosses about $60,000 per day. The towers are most profitable, then the pit, then the corners. They actually have five high-rise towers (I looked it up, since the projects were a real place) but I don't know how many corners. Most likely it runs several thousand per corner per day. Freamon guesses the organization's overhead (i.e. salaries, expenses, and spillage), to be about 20%.

Holy crap, that's about 22 million per year. That's nuts. Honestly, none of the drug dealers in this show acts according to their net worth. Even with Avon's nice SUV's and strippers and bars I figured he makes like couple of million per year max. No wonder all those developers in season 3 are all on Stringer's tit.

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Sep 24, 2007

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Besides, the top level drug guys also get privileges. They just aren't holding the corners. Stringer Bell handles the financal/distribution side in current season. Monk in later seasons seemed to be Marlo's no. 2 and he wasn't a soldier.

That's an interesting take on Monk. I'd always figured Chris to be his number 2, but since Marlo was dropping bodies so frequently and had to consult his war chief more often, you didn't really get a feel for the commerce side of things to the extent you did with the the Barksdale pit crew.

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DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009


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That's an interesting take on Monk. I'd always figured Chris to be his number 2, but since Marlo was dropping bodies so frequently and had to consult his war chief more often, you didn't really get a feel for the commerce side of things to the extent you did with the the Barksdale pit crew.

Remember when Mike slacked out on his corner and they sent Monk there to deal with it? It seemed that he he handled all the business and corner crews and distribution because Chris was too busy murdering people or alternatively acting as Marlo's bodyguard. Chris was obviously more close to Marlo but Monk did stuff like be responsible for distributing all the drugs to West Side the Co-Op, keeping tabs on phones and cops, etc.

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Sep 24, 2007

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I'll keep an eye out next time, been some years since I'd seen that season. I wonder if they intentionally kept those scenes short because they had already been addressed with the previous Barksdales storylines or out of some sort of plot expediency, trying not to clutter up an already complicated show.

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Jun 8, 2001

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Holy crap, that's about 22 million per year. That's nuts. Honestly, none of the drug dealers in this show acts according to their net worth. Even with Avon's nice SUV's and strippers and bars I figured he makes like couple of million per year max. No wonder all those developers in season 3 are all on Stringer's tit.

They take a pretty big hit cleaning the money. You can't buy condos with trash bags full of tens. They have more than they can spend, even after a year or two in the game, per Marlo. But what is a kid who came up in the projects gonna buy? can't own much in your own name, that'll bring the feds down on you. Limited experience, limited contacts, limited advice, and indeed limited interest in the straight world 'away games'. So, you got your Navigator, you got your apartments, you got your girlfriends, you got your guns, what else could you spend money on?

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DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009


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They take a pretty big hit cleaning the money. You can't buy condos with trash bags full of tens. They have more than they can spend, even after a year or two in the game, per Marlo. But what is a kid who came up in the projects gonna buy? can't own much in your own name, that'll bring the feds down on you. Limited experience, limited contacts, limited advice, and indeed limited interest in the straight world 'away games'. So, you got your Navigator, you got your apartments, you got your girlfriends, you got your guns, what else could you spend money on?

Yeah. Can't really travel either because you have to be on top of poo poo all the time. Could eat fancy food all the time but why, takeout and fast food is really loving good. And by the time you get to a point where you make millions the game is your life and I suppose it's hard to leave, either because you like it or you have so many enemies that you need your crew to protect you.

Stringer is educated enough to want something more, but he wasn't exactly average. Marlo got a chance but he didn't want anything more. Omar got out but he was pulled back in.

I wonder why they don't start selling drugs on discount then.

(I suppose the answer is that they would just have more customers and would end up making the exact same amount of profit in the end)

Charity, maybe?

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


Were the Terrace towers in Season 1 actually real? Like, I know at some point they used CGI for the towers-- fairly certain I heard it on a DVD commentary. You rarely see the towers, but when you do, I think it's a pretty well-done CGI of towers, because in reality, the project towers had actually been destroyed at the location where they were filming.


I could be 100% wrong, so someone help me out on this.

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In a later episode this season the squad nails Wee-Bey making a pickup on the morning take from the projects, and from the amount they extrapolate that the Barksdale organization grosses about $60,000 per day.

Yeah, in one scene from an episode we'll watch soon, Dee brings in a little over $20,000 from the Pit, and Stringer says "drat, we've never made that much from the low-rises in one day". Dee was well on his way to getting a percentage, like Stink eventually did.

Stink apparently was a dealer and an enforcer though. He oversees the re-up, but I think he is also one of the guys who kill Brandon. He is also supposed to oversee the drug dealing when they expand to Edmunson Avenue, and take Scar's territory-- and get 20% of the income, instead of a fixed salary (but we know what happens to Stinkum right as he goes after Scar).

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They take a pretty big hit cleaning the money. You can't buy condos with trash bags full of tens.
At one point in Season 1, Avon tells Dee that they can't move his uncle to a private nursing home because "we can't show that kind of money" yet. Despite Avon owning the strip club, a towing company, an apartment, the copy shop, and a couple other pieces of real estate-- all in someone else's name of course.


An aside:
Anyway, I hope you guys are cool with 2 episodes a week. One every 3-4 days seems like a pretty good pace. I'd say the slower pace lends itself to longer discussions, and ultimately better discussions. (Also, if I continue to do each episode myself, well, it took me 2+ hours to do that review. I enjoyed it, but I don't want it to become a headache, especially when I go back to school in a month.)

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InternetBully
Mar 17, 2004
I bully, on the internet.

quote:

When shooting scenes for the first season that took place in the towers, the show’s producers had to make due with retirement homes outside downtown Baltimore, because even before the series began shooting, as David Simon pointed out in a Q&A on the HBO site, the “Lexington Terrace, Murphy Homes, Lafayette Courts and Flag House high-rises were leveled”.

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Also, there is a blog that has been attempting to deconstruct each episode in a similar fashion. At the rate the author is going this thread will surpass him pretty quickly but for now it's an interesting start. Some interpretations obviously might be unintended but there are multiple scenes dissected and discussed in ways in which I hadn't previously thought about.

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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Yeah. Can't really travel either because you have to be on top of poo poo all the time. Could eat fancy food all the time but why, takeout and fast food is really loving good. And by the time you get to a point where you make millions the game is your life and I suppose it's hard to leave, either because you like it or you have so many enemies that you need your crew to protect you.

Reminds me of the scene where Dee takes his girl-- who is freaking gorgeous, by the way-- to a fancy restaurant. Dee feels completely out of place. Besides, why go anywhere when you can get Lake Trout Sub

And yeah, remember how Avon moves around? They especially hammer this home in Season 1. He won't leave his apartment without Wee-Bey first making sure nobody is on the street, not even a couple of young kids with sports gear. Dealing with the law and the rival dealers, the traveling doesn't seem like a good idea. In fact, I think the only time traveling is touched upon is in that brief exchange in Season 4 when Bodie says "I want to go to Florida" and go marlin fishing. Remember in Season 2, he says "Why the gently caress would anybody want to leave Baltimore?"

As far as the street-level dealers making less than minimum wage, I don't know if that's true. At one point Bodie tells Carver that he [Bodie] makes more than Carver does. It's when they're playing pool.

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Regarding the CGI of the towers:

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There's a site called Quora that is really intrusive and wants to have access to your Facebook, Twitter, or Email for you to even view the Q&A, but from the search results I found:

quote:

What are things in movies you don't expect to be CGI, but that typically are?

The Wire used CGI to recreate a housing project tower that had alre...
edit:
Actually, forget the Youtube video-- it's such low quality. Here is the shot where you can distinctly see the CGI'ed towers.

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brylcreem
Oct 29, 2007


Here's another blog about rewatching The Wire.

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May 22, 2007



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Started my re-watch last night, finished episode one at about half midnight and was so very, very tempted to burn through the next two but managed to restrain myself. One of the things I noticed about D'Angelo was how conflicted he seems to be. He gives it the big up in the car with Wee-Bey then gets scolded for doing so. He does the same with Avon in the club and again gets a dressing down. And the silent walkaways after Johnny gets beaten and Gant turns up dead, you can see the gears working in his head, like he's wrestling with "I'm not cut out for this/yes I am". But Larry Gilliard does it in such a subtle way that it just works. Also, Gilliard is married to Alma from season 5, never knew that!

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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Here's another blog about rewatching The Wire.

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He only did Season 2 and two episodes of Season 3

Apparently re-reviewing every episode of The Wire is exhausting.

Unless you're Alan Sepinwall

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He has a "veterans review" edition of the first two seasons. And "newbie editions" for them as well. He has Season 3-5 as well. Sepinwall's reviews I read religiously during the show's airing of Season 4 and 5. He's even interviewed David Simon.

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brylcreem
Oct 29, 2007


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He only did Season 2 and two episodes of Season 3

Oh, I didn't know that. Well, I'll be following this thread. Good work on the review OP

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NastyPBears
May 2, 2003

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Can anyone else remember a specific scene that really sold them on this show?

Mine is when the cops are raiding the spot and one of the old Irish cops gets knocked to the ground. They all start hitting the dealer who shoved him and Kima runs over. I though she was going to be all professional and PC and I kind of rolled my eyes a bit...

But I was terrible at judging this show, I was convinced it was about D's salvation, until it wasn't

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Can anyone else remember a specific scene that really sold them on this show?

Mine is when the cops are raiding the spot and one of the old Irish cops gets knocked to the ground. They all start hitting the dealer who shoved him and Kima runs over. I though she was going to be all professional and PC and I kind of rolled my eyes a bit...

But I was terrible at judging this show, I was convinced it was about D's salvation, until it wasn't

"This is literally my dick in your ear"

But seriously, "Got to man, this is America" and I was hooked.

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


I really can't think of a time where I wasn't enjoying the show. From the opening scene. The first two episodes had shocking cliffhangers. Not to mention hilarious moments amidst the drama. The chess scene is what finally hooks a lot of people. And the scene where Bunk and McNulty solve a crime using only one word. But I remember renting the first DVD from Blockbuster (no poo poo), and having to go back later in the day to get the second disc.

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Oh, I didn't know that. Well, I'll be following this thread. Good work on the review OP

Thanks

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


Just another thought:

In Season 2, Poot and Bodie run the pit, and a few of the younger members beat up a fiend for saying their product is bad. "You can't tell these youngins nothing" . . . "We beatin' niggas for bullshit, man"

Contrast that to the how they acted a year prior, when they drat near killed Johnny over $20 or $30.

The game makes you grow up quickly. We'll see much more of that when we get to Season 4 and 5.

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Reminds me of the scene where Dee takes his girl-- who is freaking gorgeous, by the way-- to a fancy restaurant. Dee feels completely out of place. Besides, why go anywhere when you can get Lake Trout Sub

And yeah, remember how Avon moves around? They especially hammer this home in Season 1. He won't leave his apartment without Wee-Bey first making sure nobody is on the street, not even a couple of young kids with sports gear. Dealing with the law and the rival dealers, the traveling doesn't seem like a good idea. In fact, I think the only time traveling is touched upon is in that brief exchange in Season 4 when Bodie says "I want to go to Florida" and go marlin fishing. Remember in Season 2, he says "Why the gently caress would anybody want to leave Baltimore

The comfort of the members of the Street, including the S4 kids, outside of the corners and neighborhoods they know comes up pretty consistently. Wallace being confused by crickets and coming back to say that the Towers are all he knows. Heck, I think more than a few characters in the Street say they've never left the West Side, let alone Baltimore.

You can see parallels in D's behavior at the restaurant, and the kids in S4 when Bunny takes them out. They're fish out of water, and they haven't even left city limits.

The show makes a lot about how the system can trap you, but I think examples of how limited these people are from a bigger world really illustrates that.

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MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

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Probably best exemplified by Prop Joe saying that a west side niggas idea of running away is running across the city to the east side.

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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Probably best exemplified by Prop Joe saying that a west side niggas idea of running away is running across the city to the east side.

I love that exchange.

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Mr Lance Murdock
Feb 29, 2008

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Just another thought:

In Season 2, Poot and Bodie run the pit, and a few of the younger members beat up a fiend for saying their product is bad. "You can't tell these youngins nothing" . . . "We beatin' niggas for bullshit, man"

Contrast that to the how they acted a year prior, when they drat near killed Johnny over $20 or $30.

The game makes you grow up quickly. We'll see much more of that when we get to Season 4 and 5.

I think the best example of this is Poot. His conversation with Dookie at the shoe store is how I think many of those kids had to look at the streets. Poot pretty much tells Dookie "well I guess you need to stay on the corners a little longer then come get a job"

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Schenck v. U.S.
Sep 8, 2010


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As far as the street-level dealers making less than minimum wage, I don't know if that's true. At one point Bodie tells Carver that he [Bodie] makes more than Carver does. It's when they're playing pool.

There's a few qualifiers you have to attach to that. I doubt Bodie actually knows how much a Baltimore City cop earns, and he was just talking poo poo anyway. Bodie has no fixed expenses because he's 16 and lives with his grandma. Even if he's only earning as much as a cashier at Wal-Mart, he doesn't have to make rent, car payments, or anything like that, so anything he earns he can waste on clothes, fast food, entertainment, or gambling with Carver. Finally, Bodie is the straw boss in the pit, so he doubtless earns extra money. Most of the employees associated with the pit earn very little. There are probably a dozen or more hoppers, lookouts, and touts who we seldom see and never care much about, because we spend our time on the orange couch with management. They earn almost nothing. Later in the season, when D holds up everybody's pay on Stringer's instruction, you can see that Wallace makes it to about the middle of the next week before he's begging D to give him and Poot an advance, showing that he doesn't make enough to put anything by.

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solovyov
Feb 23, 2006

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Can anyone else remember a specific scene that really sold them on this show?


When Wallace objects that Hamilton was not a President, I went from "this show is great" to "oh poo poo, this show is going to break my heart, isn't it?"

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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There's a few qualifiers you have to attach to that. I doubt Bodie actually knows how much a Baltimore City cop earns, and he was just talking poo poo anyway. Bodie has no fixed expenses because he's 16 and lives with his grandma. Even if he's only earning as much as a cashier at Wal-Mart, he doesn't have to make rent, car payments, or anything like that, so anything he earns he can waste on clothes, fast food, entertainment, or gambling with Carver. Finally, Bodie is the straw boss in the pit, so he doubtless earns extra money. Most of the employees associated with the pit earn very little. There are probably a dozen or more hoppers, lookouts, and touts who we seldom see and never care much about, because we spend our time on the orange couch with management. They earn almost nothing. Later in the season, when D holds up everybody's pay on Stringer's instruction, you can see that Wallace makes it to about the middle of the next week before he's begging D to give him and Poot an advance, showing that he doesn't make enough to put anything by.

You make a good point. But what's strange is that Wallace gets a $500 bonus for pointing our Brandon, too. I know he ends up getting high, but still, where did that $500 go? $500 of chips and juice boxes for the young ones?

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DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009


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When Wallace objects that Hamilton was not a President, I went from "this show is great" to "oh poo poo, this show is going to break my heart, isn't it?"

Oh God, yes.

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The Rooster
Jul 25, 2004

If you've got white people problems I feel bad for you son
I've got 99 problems but being socially privileged ain't one


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You make a good point. But what's strange is that Wallace gets a $500 bonus for pointing our Brandon, too. I know he ends up getting high, but still, where did that $500 go? $500 of chips and juice boxes for the young ones?

He wasn't working while he was getting high, and yeah, raising a bunch of kids will drain $500 quick.

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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He wasn't working while he was getting high, and yeah, raising a bunch of kids will drain $500 quick.

Not to mention get high every day. I think Poot mentions Wallace has been out of wack for a week or more. Let's assume two vials a day, that's $140 in a week (in Wire prices-- I don't poo poo about the real deal).

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Mr Lance Murdock
Feb 29, 2008

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You make a good point. But what's strange is that Wallace gets a $500 bonus for pointing our Brandon, too. I know he ends up getting high, but still, where did that $500 go? $500 of chips and juice boxes for the young ones?

You also gotta remember that no matter what the corner boys, for the most part, have to always look correct.
Lots of their income went right out the door for clothes, boots etc..

Like when Wallace comes back to work and they are clowning him about his boots and he says "No, these are timbs" (Timberland boots)

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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You also gotta remember that no matter what the corner boys, for the most part, have to always look correct.
Lots of their income went right out the door for clothes, boots etc..

Like when Wallace comes back to work and they are clowning him about his boots and he says "No, these are timbs" (Timberland boots)

That's true. Though D is on a fixed salary, he has a nice little place and some great outfits. I wish I could pull off some off those looks he does. Or afford them.

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Apr 19, 2004

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I've been jonesing for a rewatch, but was putting it off until I finish my rewatch of Six Feet Under. At 2 episodes a week, though, count me in.

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And the scene where Bunk and McNulty solve a crime using only one word.

That was the moment I went from "this show is pretty good" to "gently caress, now I'm addicted, this is brilliant."

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Randomly Specific
Sep 22, 2012

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That was the moment I went from "this show is pretty good" to "gently caress, now I'm addicted, this is brilliant."

Likewise. Somebody else put it best when they talked about how that scene really makes you focus on seeing the details the way they do, instead of having it spelled out. Very nicely done.

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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nicely done.

Oh you clever one.


Anyway, since you are my partner in crime, how did the OP and the discussion turn out-- so far?

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Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006



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Today I got an email from Amazon recommending the boxset and seasons 1-5, individually

Kind of a weird coincidence.

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Feb 16, 2002
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Someone mentioned that the typewriters were anachronistic, and later on the use of the pagers and payphones is particularly old-fashioned. In the world of the show there are justifications for all these things - and ones that help build the themes: painting the policing institution as bureaucratic and unwieldy, and the dealing institution as disciplined and organised. But at the same time, the story is based on 80's casework, and it can be appreciated on that level too - The Wire compresses 30 years of the drug war into it's five year span.

I think you could extend this to season 2 as well - one of the reasons I read that they didn't revisit the port in later seasons was that the places they filmed before were gone! So it's easy to imagine that as a mid-nineties story that's been modernised again. The towers being demolished also came up in the thread, and again it's something where real life pre-dated the show's history of events. Even further in Season 3, Cutty reflects on how much drug dealing has changed, but if you've read The Corner you know the changes he's talking about came and went before the time of that book, back in '93.

On a different tack, I'm sure it was on here I read how someone pointed out how deliberate the parallels are in the first episode. You can go scene for scene with McNulty being chewed out by his boss, D'Angelo being chewed out by his boss; McNulty finds out he's being reassigned; D'Angelo gets reassigned; McNulty discovers his new co-workers aren't up to much, D'Angelo...

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

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I'm only just starting episode one but 5 minutes in and I've already remembered just how much I love (and miss) the opening credits/theme song, regardless of who was singing it/what scenes/imagery they were using.

Also I love how the female security guard who perjures herself still manages to find a way to do it in a way that makes her look good and the police look like loving idiots. Even after they point out her signed witness statement showing she identified D'Angelo.

And considering that I normally find Idris Elba's American accent a little forced, I still can't get over how flawless it seems (to me at least) in The Wire. First time I saw the series I didn't realize he was British, but even after everything else I've seen him in I still think his accent in The Wire is excellent.

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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Someone mentioned that the typewriters were anachronistic, and later on the use of the pagers and payphones is particularly old-fashioned. In the world of the show there are justifications for all these things - and ones that help build the themes: painting the policing institution as bureaucratic and unwieldy, and the dealing institution as disciplined and organised. But at the same time, the story is based on 80's casework, and it can be appreciated on that level too - The Wire compresses 30 years of the drug war into it's five year span.


I don't find it anachronistic. They deliberately juxtapose it with the high-tech poo poo in the FBI field office. Later in the season, Jimmy asks the FBI for just a couple of light-weight recording mics and Fitzhugh says "that's it?", to which Jimmy replies "we're just happy to be in the 20th century."

And the beepers thing are so they can't be tapped. Later in the season: Poot's cell phone is destroyed; Avon orders to have landlines in his girl's house deactivated; Lester remarks about the beepers being a "discipline".

Also, think about Season 4, when Prez finds all the computers and new textbooks in storage, while they use outdated stuff. I think it's actually intentional.

We're definitely in the 21st century during the entirety of the show. The Sept. 11th attacks are mentioned in the first episode.

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And considering that I normally find Idris Elba's American accent a little forced, I still can't get over how flawless it seems (to me at least) in The Wire. First time I saw the series I didn't realize he was British, but even after everything else I've seen him in I still think his accent in The Wire is excellent.

On the other hand, Dominic West lets his British accent through many, many times. One of my favorite minor parts is when he does a fake British accent in some season that is deliberately terrible, sort of a meta-joke for the writers.

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