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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


Avon had a nice corner-cell with a view and lots of books and KFC. I don't remember the video games, though.

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janklow
Sep 28, 2001

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O'Malley makes a cameo in Season 5, IIRC.
you might be thinking of his Republican predecessor, who they make allusions to in the show: Robert Ehrlich. he's a security guard in the episode where Carcetti is getting jerked around by HIS Republican governor in season four.

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E the Shaggy
Mar 29, 2010


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There's this, and also the fact that most of the COs are working class African Americans from the same community as Avon. So, not only do they know his rep and see that they don't want to make him their enemy, but they're also likely to share a somewhat jaundiced view of the criminal justice system. Officer Tilghman takes it the farthest, smuggling drugs in on his own, but buying KFC and letting Avon have extra privileges is pretty harmless. Michael G. Santos was in the federal prison system for decades after running a coke ring for upper-class white kids in the 1980s, and he wrote some books about his experience that are really fascinating. Compared to some of the real-life prisoners Santos discusses, Avon's operation inside the prison is pretty low-key.

I never even thought of it from this angle but it makes perfect sense.

I could have also been ok with the idea that they were bribing every CO in the system. I think it was Freakonomics that did a breakdown of how much one "corner" makes and it was staggering.

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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you might be thinking of his Republican predecessor, who they make allusions to in the show: Robert Ehrlich. he's a security guard in the episode where Carcetti is getting jerked around by HIS Republican governor in season four.
I'm pretty sure it's in Season 5, but it is some sort of minor role like a security guard/escort. When Carcetti is trying to get some face time with the governor and he just makes him sit there for hours. You're probably right about the actor though. I've only seen season 5 twice, and not in the last four years.

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Schenck v. U.S.
Sep 8, 2010


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I never even thought of it from this angle but it makes perfect sense.

I could have also been ok with the idea that they were bribing every CO in the system. I think it was Freakonomics that did a breakdown of how much one "corner" makes and it was staggering.

Goodfellas made this point first, but it's also a useful one for the Wire--even people who are supposedly on the legit have some of the characteristics of a gang, in that they look after their own. You don't need to bribe every CO, you just need to bribe a few. The ones who didn't take your money will never rat on the ones that did, because they have to look out for one another.

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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Goodfellas made this point first, but it's also a useful one for the Wire--even people who are supposedly on the legit have some of the characteristics of a gang, in that they look after their own. You don't need to bribe every CO, you just need to bribe a few. The ones who didn't take your money will never rat on the ones that did, because they have to look out for one another.

This is true for almost everyone in every profession, even DOCTORS.

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geeves
Sep 16, 2004



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Avon had a nice corner-cell with a view and lots of books and KFC. I don't remember the video games, though.

Avon was playing something the last time D'Angelo came by to tell Avon that he didn't want any part of what Avon was up to.

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He was playing some sports game on an Xbox hooked up to a tiny TV I believe.

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Sep 8, 2010


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This is true for almost everyone in every profession, even DOCTORS.

If there was a show that did for medical drama like the Wire did for police procedural, I would watch the hell out of it.

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He was playing some sports game on an Xbox hooked up to a tiny TV I believe.

NBA 2k2 on an Xbox if my memory serves me correctly.

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If there was a show that did for medical drama like the Wire did for police procedural, I would watch the hell out of it.

I remember thinking that before they announced that the 5th season would be the last, that Cutty's girlfriend would be the catalyst for a season on public health/healthcare. Although David Simon's idea for a 6th season sounded far cooler than mine.

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If there was a show that did for medical drama like the Wire did for police procedural, I would watch the hell out of it.

If there was a Wire-like show about garbage men I would watch it.

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It might also be intended to reinforce the point that D is a bit of a chump, since Levy feels ok putting hands on him and D accepts it (imagine if Levy pulled that on Bird).


I think that Levy would smack Bird, Wee-Bey, even Stringer if they were writing out a confession when he walked in. Levy is protecting, and protected by Avon. He is paid to be blunt and effective because blunt and effective keeps everyone out of jail and making money. If he doesn't present himself as an authority figure who is above them, they won't listen to him. If they don't listen to him, he can't protect Avon.

His knowledge of the legitimate side of the world makes him dominant even over the muscle, and he understands street culture enough to know that the game doesn't tolerate beta males. Levy needs compliance and cooperation from guys fall in line by force or threat of force so it's natural that when he's alone in the box with a banger he's going to treat them like the fuckup children they are in his world.

It's not like they're going to tell anyone that they got punked out by a balding, tubby white guy and even if they took offense they'd only be in a position to act on it if he'd done his job right. I feel like beating a murder rap is the kind of currency that can ease some hurt feelings.

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Thanks for saying this is better than Breaking Bad. I enjoy Breaking Bad, but drat if it doesn't bother me-- to an unreasonable extent-- when people say it is better than The Wire.

They're totally different shows. Then again, the wire in a league unto itself. Just totally different from anything else out there that I've seen.

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Randomly Specific
Sep 22, 2012

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Thanks for saying this is better than Breaking Bad. I enjoy Breaking Bad, but drat if it doesn't bother me-- to an unreasonable extent-- when people say it is better than The Wire.

I'm the same way. I enjoy Breaking Bad, though the last half-season and especially the mid-season finale kind of killed it for me. (Not going to get into that here.)

However, while Breaking Bad is good TV, it's not the best in my admittedly purely subjective opinion. What really makes The Wire the best of all time for me is that there is not one single episode that I feel like skipping on a rewatch. Even the not-as-awesome newsroom scenes are still perfectly watchable, they really mostly pale by comparison to the excellence that everything else was executed with. I don't have any other TV show that I've ever watched.

It's kind of like Star Wars, which is not a piece of high art. However, the genius of the original was that there were no slow moments, no place in the movie where you feel like it's slow enough to run to the bathroom and skip the scene.

The Wire is like that, as a series. All the pieces really do matter in the end.

ETA: I will say this, though: The Wire is non nude russian teens heavy. There are a lot of shows that I'll throw on as casual background noise, popcorn fun stuff. The Wire always makes me think every time I watch it, which in a weird way does make some other shows more fun on occasion.

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I'm the same way. I enjoy Breaking Bad, though the last half-season and especially the mid-season finale kind of killed it for me. (Not going to get into that here.)

However, while Breaking Bad is good TV, it's not the best in my admittedly purely subjective opinion. What really makes The Wire the best of all time for me is that there is not one single episode that I feel like skipping on a rewatch. Even the not-as-awesome newsroom scenes are still perfectly watchable, they really mostly pale by comparison to the excellence that everything else was executed with. I don't have any other TV show that I've ever watched.

It's kind of like Star Wars, which is not a piece of high art. However, the genius of the original was that there were no slow moments, no place in the movie where you feel like it's slow enough to run to the bathroom and skip the scene.

The Wire is like that, as a series. All the pieces really do matter in the end.

ETA: I will say this, though: The Wire is grils gone wild naked heavy. There are a lot of shows that I'll throw on as casual background noise, popcorn fun stuff. The Wire always makes me think every time I watch it, which in a weird way does make some other shows more fun on occasion.

One thing I love about the wire is how with very few exceptions, e.g. the montages wrapping up the seasons, there is no artificially inserted music. Everything is being listened to by someone in-scene.

I think this is one way in which the Wire is better than Breaking Bad. If there were a Moh's scale of hardness for drug shows, Breaking bad might be a whole lot harder than Weeds, or almost any other show. On the other hand, the Wire took it to a whole other level. There are astonishingly few TV-show conceits, relatively little glorification of violence, it's just real, or as close to real as anyone's fit onto a TV.

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Randomly Specific
Sep 22, 2012

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One thing I love about the wire is how with very few exceptions, e.g. the montages wrapping up the seasons, there is no artificially inserted music. Everything is being listened to by someone in-scene.

I think this is one way in which the Wire is better than Breaking Bad. If there were a Moh's scale of hardness for drug shows, Breaking bad might be a whole lot harder than Weeds, or almost any other show. On the other hand, the Wire took it to a whole other level. There are astonishingly few TV-show conceits, relatively little glorification of violence, it's just real, or as close to real as anyone's fit onto a TV.

What I really appreciate about that is how much it makes the montages stand out. I could easily watch the S2 montage leading up to Sobotka's demise a hundred more times, because the music was so evocative and it so neatly tied together all the strings of his impending gory demise.

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

"Slow train coming"

"Slow quality poster coming to the threads about the shows I like."

"No, really, jokes aside, post more in The TV IV because you make good points and don't suck."


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One of the weird exceptions is when Avon goes to the pit and they have a slow-mo of him, rocking an entirely denim outfit, and somehow pulling it off. It's when he's paying the bounty for Brandon.

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The Rooster
Jul 25, 2004

If you've got white people problems I feel bad for you son
I've got 99 problems but being socially privileged ain't one


One thing that stood out for me is when Ziggy aces Double G, they use that shaky blurry camera to demonstrate his mindstate. I don't think they do anything like that anywhere else.

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm fairly sure there's a few other scenes in S2 that were of that nature: more traditional TV and less "strictly observational".

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Sep 22, 2012

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One thing that stood out for me is when Ziggy aces Double G, they use that shaky blurry camera to demonstrate his mindstate. I don't think they do anything like that anywhere else.

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm fairly sure there's a few other scenes in S2 that were of that nature: more traditional TV and less "strictly observational".

It's another case like the S2 montage where it works to beautiful effect. Ziggy's shooting is a total collapse and the scene takes you right into the middle of it. Then it's followed by that very solemn Landsman scene with the confession, and the solemn Landsman scenes always have a fuckload of punch.

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Varicelli
Jan 24, 2009


My favorite character is Terry, from Season 5. There's just something about...

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Mr Lance Murdock
Feb 29, 2008

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It's another case like the S2 montage where it works to beautiful effect. Ziggy's shooting is a total collapse and the scene takes you right into the middle of it. Then it's followed by that very solemn Landsman scene with the confession, and the solemn Landsman scenes always have a fuckload of punch.

Ya his scene with Bubbles is a heart breaker.

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Apr 19, 2004

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I really can not class The Wire with anything else. Yes, it is a TV show in that it aired on the television. But I can not compare it to any other television, because it is so distinctly, so completely, different. It literally (IMHO) transcends its medium. It is a visual novel.

Very, very few shows have done that, and so in my mind it is completely unfair to compare it to the rest of TV, or the rest of TV to it. In my mind, there are two bubbles: TV; and The Wire, The (original) Prisoner, and maybe MASH.

holly kendra bridget naked They were all great entries, and eventually it came down to The Sopranos vs The Wire, and I swore to myself if they didn't pick The Wire I would have to punch something. Luckily, I didn't have to.

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Edit: There was an interesting thing a journalist/academic did where he had some real life gangsters come in to watch The Wire with him and he recorded their thoughts/feelings on the realism (or not) of the show. I was always interested in the fact that every single one of them was adamant that Bunk was on the take, and that they saw absolutely nothing morally wrong with that at all. Their reasoning was that a policeman is paid badly, a policeman "in the pocket" wasn't likely to cross a certain line and you'd be foolish to ask him to, but giving him a few extra bucks in return for information/early warning of investigations and the like was perfectly fine.

If you can recall where you saw/read that I would love to see it.

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Sep 22, 2012

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I really can not class The Wire with anything else. Yes, it is a TV show in that it aired on the television. But I can not compare it to any other television, because it is so distinctly, so completely, different. It literally (IMHO) transcends its medium. It is a visual novel.

Very, very few shows have done that, and so in my mind it is completely unfair to compare it to the rest of TV, or the rest of TV to it. In my mind, there are two bubbles: TV; and The Wire, The (original) Prisoner, and maybe MASH.

Visual novel is a good way of putting it.

What I've realized about the way it's so perfectly paced is because it is one large narrative that requires every single episode to really work properly. There's no filler, no jar episodes. Everything flows from one scene to the next, one episode to the next, and all the pieces really do matter in the series.

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Visual novel is a good way of putting it.

What I've realized about the way it's so perfectly paced is because it is one large narrative that requires every single episode to really work properly. There's no filler, no jar episodes. Everything flows from one scene to the next, one episode to the next, and all the pieces really do matter in the series.

Some would say it's the Dickensian aspect.

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Aertuun
Dec 18, 2012


The only times I felt the writing in the Wire could have been better were when they were getting the "old team" back together in season 2 (the plotting felt a touch forced) and during the various newsroom scenes. Perhaps as a former journalist himself the writer was a bit too close to the material; in all the other parts of the show he was an outside observer looking in.

It's also fairly bizarre the show never won an Emmy. Not that I think that winning an Emmy is any guarantee or indication of quality, but how did that not happen?

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May 20, 2004

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It's also fairly bizarre the show never won an Emmy. Not that I think that winning an Emmy is any guarantee or indication of quality, but how did that not happen?

Emmys are based on single episodes of shows. The Wire is a show where "all the pieces matter" so it's difficult to present them ONE episode that stands out all on its own.

It still should have won Emmys for acting/writing etc

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It's right and proper that the show never won an Emmy.

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geeves
Sep 16, 2004



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It's right and proper that the show never won an Emmy.

I somewhat agree. But it just shows how outdated the Emmy's are in that they haven't adapted to long-form television.

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

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To be fair, I think episode 11 of season one (The Hunt) fits the Emmy criteria, was it nominated?

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E the Shaggy
Mar 29, 2010


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It's a really interesting book, as Felicia's life is pretty close to Snoop's character. There's a part of the book where she talks about how she killed someone in "self defense" which sounds pretty shady.

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Jun 20, 2005

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Breaking Bad is good tv, it's fun, and it's a good thrill. The Wire is a different animal. It's all about the slow build, realism, deep sociocultural self-reflection. Somehow The Wire manages to simultaneously have like twenty really amazing, well-developed characters I actually care about at any moment in the series.

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Sep 28, 2001

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I'm pretty sure it's in Season 5, but it is some sort of minor role like a security guard/escort.
as luck would have it, i actually watched this season recently (because it's nice to watch something upbeat during the holidays) and i can confirm it's season four (sex ed rocks music). chalk it up to me being a Maryland resident looking out for these ridiculous cameos.

and "when Carcetti is trying to get some face time with the governor and he just makes him sit there for hours" is the scene exactly.

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It's also fairly bizarre the show never won an Emmy. Not that I think that winning an Emmy is any guarantee or indication of quality, but how did that not happen?

I think the only reasonable explanation is that someone went on a dog killing spree among Emmy voters while wearing a David Simon mask.

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The Rooster
Jul 25, 2004

If you've got white people problems I feel bad for you son
I've got 99 problems but being socially privileged ain't one


I can't really be mad that people think Breaking Bad is the greatest show of all time. Some people believe Sons of Anarchy is the greatest show of all time. I'm certain people feel the same way about Real Housewives of Cityname.

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Apr 19, 2004

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This may be dumb, but I am going to Baltimore for a week on Saturday. I've seen the building they use for the exterior of Homicide like a dozen times. Is there any place the thread would like me to go and photograph?

And please note if you say "X corner in the Western district" that is flat out not happening. I've driven through those areas and it's not a place you want a banger to catch you with a Nikon and a big lens.

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Oct 3, 2003

It's just business.

In the middle of my re-watch of episode 3. Just noticed a nice cut. During the "chess" speech, when D is talking about the pawns he looks at Wallace and says, "...they be out of the game early." Then it cuts to Wallace. Nice foreshadowing that I never noticed before.

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I think the only reasonable explanation is that someone went on a dog killing spree among Emmy voters while wearing a David Simon mask.

One of the reasons has to do with how the Emmy process works: for most awards (I think) they're only allowed to judge individual episodes of a show, not the season as a whole. Of course, nearly all episodes of The Wire are impossible to judge outside of the context of the entire season - owing to the "visual novel" format.

On the other hand, I swear I read Simon claiming once that it had to do more with the fact that they had a 95% black cast with many nonprofessional actors, and that their writing staff wasn't WGA dayjob workers but mostly crime novelists. I'm probably confusing this with speculation from somewhere else though.

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