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E4C85D38
Feb 7, 2010

Doesn't that thing only
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This.

Tailhook is one of the great big warning areas over the Atlantic. Northbound traffic over AR18 clips the southeast corner of it. (It doesn't ACTUALLY clip it, but the computer is over-cautious, so every single loving airplane shows up in conflict whenever it's hot.)

Blue alerts are potential airspace violations in URET. There are also yellow and red alerts for conflicts between aircraft. ERAM changes blue alerts to amber, because what the gently caress, how could we rose mcgowan naked pics NOT give LockMart another couple million dollars.

By the time URET or whatever conflict decision tool smart enough to beep/blink early enough to avoid whatever the disciplinary process over there considers a separation conflict, or is a funny color a sign you're going to get a talking-to from your supervisor?

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Zochness
May 13, 2009

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So after almost a year as CPC I'm finally getting sent to OJTI class (a class to learn how to train new controllers on live traffic). Any of you guys who train enjoy it/hate it? I've got a tower only CPC-IT (already certified at another facility, transferred here and in training) on my crew who I'm going to have to train on radar, so I'll get thrown into it pretty much right away. I enjoy teaching people so I hope that helps, we do a lot of training.

Get a week in Dallas to take the class at DFW TRACON, the last guys who got the class had to do it here, they are so pissed .

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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So after almost a year as CPC I'm finally getting sent to OJTI class (a class to learn how to train new controllers on live traffic). Any of you guys who train enjoy it/hate it? I've got a tower only CPC-IT (already certified at another facility, transferred here and in training) on my crew who I'm going to have to train on radar, so I'll get thrown into it pretty much right away. I enjoy teaching people so I hope that helps, we do a lot of training.

I've recently begun training people at my facility as well. I was briefly authorized to do it at my first facility, but then I transferred shortly after, so I don't have a ton of experience training other people. I haven't yet had a situation get out of control, my developmental has been at this facility longer than I have, and is on his last radar sector, so I'm not exactly starting fresh with him. This is his first FAA facility (he was in the Navy prior).

If the trainee is working the traffic, it's actually pretty easy, you just monitor for mistakes, correct them on their phraseology, or provide suggestions when they encounter something new they haven't seen before.

Our training situation here is a bit ridiculous (people taking 4+ years to certify at a level 9 Tower/TRACON facility) and I really try to make sure that I'm providing useful feedback to the trainee, as well as accurately documenting the training session on the evaluation form we fill out after every session. Recently, we designated a computer for training reports, and I've been able to type reports into a PDF and print them out. Much to my trainee's chagrin, this allows me to write WALLS OF TEXT quite rapidly, and provide tons of references to our manuals.

When I first began my career, my instructor was awesome. He drat near had the manuals memorized, always kept his cool, and was a great controller as well. He helped me so much, since I was starting without experience, and I really want to be the same kind of instructor to other people.

I'm doing what I can to keep my feedback actionable. I was so sick of hearing people say a person "needs more time" or whatever, when all the training reports they wrote just said "Good job, no assistance required (signature)." I try to explain on the form what I thought was wrong, and how I wanted to see it done better next time ("you had 6 miles between these airplanes on final and you only needed 3, next time I want to see you run them at least less than 5 miles apart")


quote:

Get a week in Dallas to take the class at DFW TRACON, the last guys who got the class had to do it here, they are so pissed .

That's where I did my class as well. I'm not sure how well it prepared me for instructing others, a lot of it is just going through the national training order manual and discussing how to fill out the training report form after every session. Something I don't think we do very well in the FAA is ensure that the people providing training are actually good teachers. You can be a good controller and still be a crap teacher. Our problem at my facility is that we don't fail anybody out of training, but we don't certify them either. It's a horribly frustrating kind of limbo for the trainee, whose pay depends on completing certification.

It was neat to see DFW TRACON though, definitely a bit bigger than the facilities I've worked at.

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Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

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I'm guessing AR is Aerial Refueling. And what is Tailhook? And Blue alerts? I'm not asking just for me, mind you.

AR means Atlantic Route, Tailhook is a chunk of military airspace that one plane will take up hundreds of miles in diameter, and miles up, to practice 10k feet of crap in, blue alerts I have no clue.

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Blue alerts are potential airspace violations in URET. There are also yellow and red alerts for conflicts between aircraft. ERAM changes blue alerts to amber, because what the gently caress, how could we porn download on psp NOT give LockMart another couple million dollars.

Explains why I didn't get this at first. We have so much military airspace we have a waiver to not to have to turn that crap on. It actually can screw up the system if we actively turn that stuff on due to how much we have.

I imagine you have dealt with at least Q routes being around Houston, or DFW, center airspace? When I was in PWM is when I learned about AR/Q routes. But the AR routes are basically what the pilots use at high altitudes to go back and forth from the north to the south of the east coast.

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So after almost a year as CPC I'm finally getting sent to OJTI class (a class to learn how to train new controllers on live traffic). Any of you guys who train enjoy it/hate it? I've got a tower only CPC-IT (already certified at another facility, transferred here and in training) on my crew who I'm going to have to train on radar, so I'll get thrown into it pretty much right away. I enjoy teaching people so I hope that helps, we do a lot of training.

Get a week in Dallas to take the class at DFW TRACON, the last guys who got the class had to do it here, they are so pissed .


Training. Keep in mind this is sort of like a mentor position. You can greatly affect the long term love/hate relationship of that person with ATC. Don't be a dick, like some people, for the sake of being a dick. If you honest to god like seeing someone learn and grow as a person then you will enjoy it (assuming the trainee is actually trying). Be open minded with it, you have a serious long term impact on this person and it WILL effect their life outside of the job. You know this, you remember training, so don't be THAT guy. Good luck man, I hope you end up being one of the good ones.

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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AR means Atlantic Route, Tailhook is a chunk of military airspace that one plane will take up hundreds of miles in diameter, and miles up, to practice 10k feet of crap in, blue alerts I have no clue.

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I might have heard of these before but I didn't recall them. TRACON airspace is a small world compared to Center. About the most interesting things we have are rape little girls porn and having sex with her We also have an alert area that is commonly filled with Navy T-34 Mentors doing rapid maneuvers through several thousand feet, it's scary when someone decides to fly through it without talking to us. Either they really trust their traffic avoidance system or they're stupid (or both).

We have a couple offshore GPS waypoints for helicopters but we so seldom use them anymore, most of their operations moved out of the Corpus Christi area, where I'm at.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


The only Q route we really see is SRQ.Q100.LEV. West Side Coastal (the area to our west, that actually adjoins Houston) deals with most of that traffic. We just get a teensy bit of it.

As for URET/EDST alerts, the computer probes flight plan and projected track data out for something like two hours or some such ridiculousness. Its all locally adapted to actually display conflicts at different times, but its not so much an "OH poo poo" alert as a planning tool. We're trained to be able to separate aircraft from airspace, and from each other in our own airspace, without any tools at all, with only strips, if it comes to that, but URET/EDST alerts let us be helpful even on things that don't occur in our airspace. We can reach out and fix things WAAAAY before they become an issue, with revised routing, different altitudes, etc.

For example, one of the most common is routing south from RSW to EYW. RSW direct EYW is approved by our SOP with West Side Coastal, but when some of their military airspace goes hot, theres a dogleg fix that we issue, called KARTR, that takes them the ~12 miles or so to the east of the direct course, to miss the airspace. Without URET, we probably wouldn't ever think twice about it, but with URET, if we're not super busy, we'll take a second to issue KARTR to the guy, so that the next controller doesn't have to. Saves the airplane a little bit of gas, too.

In ERAM, at our facility, TMU somehow became responsible for turning on and off all the restricted/warning areas and MOAs, so I fully expect them to never be right, ever again.

EDIT: If you look at the bottom of that chart that FerretKing posted, where AR5 and AR16 meet, theres a fix... A fix called SNABS.

A fix that I find it completely impossible to say without chuckling. I don't know why.

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AR means Atlantic Route

Maybe out there on the commie east coast

Here they're just aerial refueling tracks.

URET/EDST is a really great tool if you just use it as a tool instead of trying to separate traffic with it. There have been a few times when I'm getting my rear end kicked and I glance over at it and see some reds that I hadn't already caught myself. Some people rely on it way too much.

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May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

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Every time I've tried, I just throw up my hands in frustration after fifteen minutes and rage quit; that's why I never bothered to apply to Nav Canada.

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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The mechanics of it looked alright but it was so complicated I never bothered to learn how to play it.

There are some more arcadey radar games that are good, but they all miss one of the biggest parts of terminal radar control, and that's degrees divergence. We can have less than 3 miles(lat/long) or 1000ft(vertical) if aircraft are on courses or headings that diverge by at least 15 degrees. This comes up a lot when vectoring to a final approach course, or splitting up departures, but none of the games I've played take it into consideration. They all "ding" you any time you bust that 3 mile bubble around the airplane. Kinda frustrating because it really changes the way you have to work the traffic in those games. The interfaces are always cumbersome too.

I feel like real ATC is easier than some of these clunky games.

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Jun 27, 2004


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Every time I've tried, I just throw up my hands in frustration after fifteen minutes and rage quit; that's why I never bothered to apply to Nav Canada.

I can sit on this for hours at a time which is great when my wife is watching dancing with the stars. It's a bit clunky and complicated since you have to type the commands in but once you know the commands you just have to deal with the traffic.

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Mar 24, 2005

Well that's less than ideal


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So after almost a year as CPC I'm finally getting sent to OJTI class (a class to learn how to train new controllers on live traffic). Any of you guys who train enjoy it/hate it? I've got a tower only CPC-IT (already certified at another facility, transferred here and in training) on my crew who I'm going to have to train on radar, so I'll get thrown into it pretty much right away. I enjoy teaching people so I hope that helps, we do a lot of training.
I train a lot and I enjoy it, but there are definitely pitfalls. Trainees have a tendency to "regress to the mean", that is that even the best trainees will often fall back at some point during their course and this can be difficult for both the trainee and the trainer. The best way I've found to handle that is when you feel yourself getting frustrated because they keep making the same mistake over and over, take a couple days off from training. Talk with the trainee and your supe, tell them that you'd like to take a little break and work on your own for a bit. Hopefully you'll have some good sessions on your own and you'll be ready to take your trainee back on before you know it.

As others mentioned, don't berate the trainee for no reason, it's way to easy to wreck someone's confidence that way. My dad was an ER doc and he worked with a guy who everyone called Nervous Gerdes. This dude was a superstar, knew medicine like the back of his hand, but someone early on in his career had convinced him he wasn't any good and so he ordered a zillion tests and over-analyzed everything. Trainees need to be held to a standard, and if they've failed to live up to their end (learning the basics of airspace and so forth) then you need to be firm with them, but just yelling for yelling's sake is counter-productive.

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Apr 17, 2004

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Every time I've tried, I just throw up my hands in frustration after fifteen minutes and rage quit; that's why I never bothered to apply to Nav Canada.

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TheHouseofM
Feb 13, 2012


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Our training situation here is a bit ridiculous (people taking 4+ years to certify at a level 9 Tower/TRACON facility) and I really try to make sure that I'm providing useful feedback to the trainee, as well as accurately documenting the training session on the evaluation form we fill out after every session. Recently, we designated a computer for training reports, and I've been able to type reports into a PDF and print them out. Much to my trainee's chagrin, this allows me to write WALLS OF TEXT quite rapidly, and provide tons of references to our manuals.



Any chance you can get me a copy of that PDF? I'm at controller at NORCAL and would love to be able to type my trainee's reports instead of writing them out.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


Just talked to a guy going VFR to Naples. His accent not only meant that he was hard to understand, but that every time we asked him to restate his destination, he said "Cessna one sebbinty two, going to Nipples."

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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Any chance you can get me a copy of that PDF? I'm at controller at NORCAL and would love to be able to type my trainee's reports instead of writing them out.

EDIT: Ha, I found it (I had the wrong form number before). It's on the employee website. mature sex tube video

You'll need your login credentials of course. Whatever firefox does to display PDFs doesn't show the fields as fillable, but once you download the PDF and open it with Adobe Reader proper, you'll see them.

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TheHouseofM
Feb 13, 2012


Awesome! Thanks for the link didn't know the FAA made this!

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The Slaughter
Jan 28, 2002

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If you kindly go check your application status, you'll see that if you're a CTI grad or someone very qualified that you've been denied. (at least according to my facebook)

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Iucounu
May 12, 2007




I'm not sure what they were looking for, but the results have been crazy.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


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If you kindly go check your application status, you'll see that if you're a CTI grad or someone very qualified that you've been denied. (at least according to my facebook)

StuckMic is an apocalyptic wasteland of shattered hopes and broken dreams.

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Stupid Post Maker
Jan 8, 2008


4 people that I know that applied said they failed the biographical check or something

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Jun 27, 2004


I'm in the same bucket, extensive aviation experience and I "failed" the bio questionnaire. I just heard that there may have been a meeting at the FAA about the hiring matrix being flawed. gently caress this noise

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Iucounu
May 12, 2007




It genuinely seems like there was something wrong with whatever automated process they used to get a go/no go from the biographical questionnaire.

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StuckMic is an apocalyptic wasteland of shattered hopes and broken dreams.

I haven't been there yet, might stop by tomorrow to drink some of the tears. It does suck if you didn't get accepted, but there are so many entitled motherfuckers out there and I admittedly get some joy from them crying.

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Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Same here, it says I failed the biographical questionnaire. At least I just applied on a whim with no aviation experience, it sucks for those people who have dumped significant resources into training for this or have related qualifications. One odd thing is that I didn't get an email about it, even though I checked the box to receive email updates. Maybe there is some sort of flaw and people will get a second bite at the apple, but I doubt it.

Edit: After doing some further reading, if significant numbers of CTI grads have been rejected based on the questionnaire, I can see them causing some serious agitation. It could get some play in the mainstream media, and Congressmen will score political points trashing it. "Took out thousands of dollars in student loans, spent years studying, rejected based on 15 minute questionnaire" will be tough to explain away, and enough of the public will sympathize with it to force the government to respond somehow.

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Feb 8, 2005


So did anyone actually pass it?

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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The stuckmic.com rumor mill has several posters who passed it, but there's another rumor circulating that these notices were sent in error and that there might be some changes.

Rumor rumor rumor.

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SaltPig
Jun 21, 2004



I am still hoping they change the process so that you are given a facility assignment before the academy. There are going to be so many ERRs and hardships in 3-5 years otherwise.

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Infinotize
Sep 5, 2003



I also failed the bio. The reasoning is very vague. I can't imagine actually failing to qualify based on like 20 multiple choice questions, but who knows. Applied with only a PPL (besides normal job experience).

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The stuckmic.com rumor mill has several posters who passed it, but there's another rumor circulating that these notices were sent in error and that there might be some changes.

Rumor rumor rumor.

Yeah, hearing that only 2200 out of 28000 applicants passed the questionnaire and there might be issues with it.

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Boola
Dec 7, 2005


Didn't get through myself. Bachelor's in engineering, 5+ years work experience in my career, but no FAA related experience / CTI schooling / veteran status.

I understand there being more qualified people applying than myself (like military controllers) but failing the biographic questionnaire was surprising. Hoping it is a bug in their system; but if it isn't, oh well.

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Got my rejection notice, too. I hope it's an error as people say, I really don't have many more options left to get into something aviation related. Well, here's to hoping.

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Failed the bio also. Kind of hosed if it isn't a bug. I'm currently enrolled in an ATC-CTI program.

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Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

There is some definite bull shittery afoot. I'd put money on an error in the automation process with the initial resume screenings.

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Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


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There is some definite bull shittery afoot. I'd put money on an error in the automation process with the initial resume screenings.

Agreed. There's one guy on StuckMic with a masters in an unrelated field, a CTI cert, CFI, IFR ticket, and five plus years work experience, and got kicked out.

Also, everyone in my facility thread that had a TOL here has taken a redirect o somewhere else. Meanwhile: we're essentially working six day work weeks, UFA.

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Pretty sure the bio questionnaire had nothing to do with experience, it's looking for personality types that have a history of being good controllers. A friend's sister got past it. Said friend is also a controller.

Doesn't mean something wasn't hosed up though.

Also so many "I answered how I thought the FAA wanted me to answer" replies.

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I've always hated the automated "Respond how the corporate entity wants you to" bullshit. You and the person who (eventually might) interview you both know it's bullshit.

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Mar 24, 2005

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Pretty sure the bio questionnaire had nothing to do with experience, it's looking for personality types that have a history of being good controllers. A friend's sister got past it. Said friend is also a controller.
I really hope it's not that, because almost all of those have all the evidentiary basis of voodoo. They predict who will be successful and who won't be about as well as a flip of the coin. And, although it's admittedly a small sample, looking around my facility there are a huge number of different personality types. The idea that you could possibly create a 20 question tool to assess who's the "right" sort of person to be a controller is laughable on its face.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


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I really hope it's not that, because almost all of those have all the evidentiary basis of voodoo. They predict who will be successful and who won't be about as well as a flip of the coin. And, although it's admittedly a small sample, looking around my facility there are a huge number of different personality types. The idea that you could possibly create a 20 question tool to assess who's the "right" sort of person to be a controller is laughable on its face.

There's a woman at the academy that greets you on your first day and administers some tests. She has a lot of letters and abbreviations after her name, is probably borderline on some kind of personality test, maybe the one she administers, and is ABSOLUTELY convinced that her statistical analysis can produce better controllers.

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There's a woman at the academy that greets you on your first day and administers some tests. She has a lot of letters and abbreviations after her name, is probably borderline on some kind of personality test, maybe the one she administers, and is ABSOLUTELY convinced that her statistical analysis can produce better controllers.

Not when she pisses off your class on your second trip to see her and you just gently caress off instead of doing what she wants.

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Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

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There's a woman at the academy that greets you on your first day and administers some tests. She has a lot of letters and abbreviations after her name, is probably borderline on some kind of personality test, maybe the one she administers, and is ABSOLUTELY convinced that her statistical analysis can produce better controllers.

HER! Oh man, when she saw that I had taken that ATSAT crap 8 flipping times she drat near begged me to try my hardest on it again. That and she literally gives the same speech every time (can't blame her for that though).

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Not when she pisses off your class on your second trip to see her and you just gently caress off instead of doing what she wants.

Pretty much this. I found out with that test that you can still get at least 50% by AFKing the entire "radar" part. Some of my classmates were pretty dissapointed when they were busting their rear end on the thing and getting 30-40s and saw they could have literally effed off to some corner while it was running and played angry birds and gotten a higher score.

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