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kmcormick9
Feb 2, 2004
Magenta Alert

Speaking of entitled motherfuckers on stuckmic, has anyone heard anything about the cti class action?
"I paid for this meaningless piece of paper so no one else should get this job before me" was the sentiment back when I was ing that site all day waiting for my FOL.

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May 12, 2007




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There's a woman at the academy that greets you on your first day and administers some tests. She has a lot of letters and abbreviations after her name, is probably borderline on some kind of personality test, maybe the one she administers, and is ABSOLUTELY convinced that her statistical analysis can produce better controllers.

I remember her and her speech about how everything we do in the agency will be tracked and checked against her precious test results.

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Oct 6, 2005

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Good to see the I'm not the only one that failed the bio assessment. I thought it was weird they wouldn't give second thought to someone who's a CFII and has a 4 year aviation degree

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I failed the bio too. All jokes about entitled douchebags aside, I can't help but feel like I've had my entire future pulled the gently caress out from under me. I'm 27 years old. I probably won't get another shot to play their lovely lottery to try and win a future that doesn't revolve around paycheck-to-paycheck poverty.

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Jun 27, 2004


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I failed the bio too. All jokes about entitled douchebags aside, I can't help but feel like I've had my entire future pulled the gently caress out from under me. I'm 27 years old. I probably won't get another shot to play their lovely lottery to try and win a future that doesn't revolve around paycheck-to-paycheck poverty.

I just turned 28 and feeling the same way. It sucks being in aviation for so long and now having to seriously consider alternative careers.

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Nov 23, 2003

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Speaking of entitled motherfuckers on stuckmic, has anyone heard anything about the cti class action?
"I paid for this meaningless piece of paper so no one else should get this job before me" was the sentiment back when I was ing that site all day waiting for my FOL.

I'd like to see them succeed. I don't know how the FAA chose who to be in cahoots with, but those CTI schools made a poo poo load of money and the FAA doesn't have to pay these CTI grads a dime.

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PT6A
Jan 5, 2006



I miss being involved in aviation pretty much every day since I decided to take a different path, but I suppose I can be comforted that I made a reasonable choice. I feel bad saying it, though, because I know I took the easy way out and basically turned my back on something I was really passionate about. It really sucks that a very significant part of the modern world is built on an industry where pretty much everyone is used and abused, from pilots to controllers to mechanics.

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t really sucks that a very significant part of the modern world is built on an industry where pretty much everyone is used and abused, from pilots to controllers to mechanics.

That's true of pretty much every industry to a certain extent, for what it's worth.

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I failed the bio too. All jokes about entitled douchebags aside, I can't help but feel like I've had my entire future pulled the gently caress out from under me. I'm 27 years old. I probably won't get another shot to play their lovely lottery to try and win a future that doesn't revolve around paycheck-to-paycheck poverty.

I know the feeling. I'll be turning 30 next month, and have been trying to get into aviation for the past 5 or 6 years. I just got a job that wasn't retail, but there's no guarantee that it'll be permanent, though.

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Apr 26, 2008

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Speaking of entitled motherfuckers on stuckmic, has anyone heard anything about the cti class action?
"I paid for this meaningless piece of paper so no one else should get this job before me" was the sentiment back when I was ing that site all day waiting for my FOL.

Oh I am absolutely in agreement with you on your opinion on this, but at the same time I really do want them to win it. Don't get me wrong, I definitely went off on two-three of those kids who thought they were "owed" the job more over someone who, you know, has actually been doing it AND joined the military because of no $$$...so I feel you.

But I want that lawsuit to win.

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I'd like to see them succeed. I don't know how the FAA chose who to be in cahoots with, but those CTI schools made a poo poo load of money and the FAA doesn't have to pay these CTI grads a dime.

And this. Something always seemed weird as hell to me about how much the old training manager at my facility seemed to love those CTI schools. I remember calling before I got hired and him telling me "You should go to the CTI school here!" all the while I'm thinking "....uhhh, why? I'm already a controller." And him repeating the same line. I'm thinking someone made out pretty well and a bunch of other people got left stuck with their junk in their hands.

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But I want that lawsuit to win.



Are they suing the schools or the FAA? Good luck if they're going after the FAA. The schools deserve anything that happens to them for feeding people a bunch of bullshit.

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Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

I think they're suing the FAA, and I disagree with you about who is at fault. These programs were developed in coordination with and endorsed by the FAA, and the FAA outright told prospective applicants to attend them if they wanted to be an ATC. Even after they stopped posting CTI announcements, it was entirely reasonable to believe that attending a program that is, even today, free old people porno would help them get a job.

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Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

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I think they're suing the FAA, and I disagree with you about who is at fault. These programs were developed in coordination with and endorsed by the FAA, and the FAA outright told prospective applicants to attend them if they wanted to be an ATC. Even after they stopped posting CTI announcements, it was entirely reasonable to believe that attending a program that is, even today, huge ass porn movies would help them get a job.

Yeah the FAA is definitely at fault here, although I am not sure who they are suing. I know the head training guys at my facility were telling people, no matter their background, that if they want to get hired to go to a CTI school. There is some serious accountability the FAA should be stepping up to (which they are obviously going to try to dodge).

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If the FAA didn't facts about porn stars officially step up and say that you had to go to CTI school I don't think there's much of a case. I doubt they'll be held accountable for what individual employees were saying. I'm pretty sure there has always been "public hiring is still an option" type deal in all the bids they've put out.

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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Newer rumors from the rumor mill are saying that the 2,000 people who passed the biographical questionnaire on this last announcement are going to move forward in the process. They estimate this will yield as low as 400 controllers graduating the academy (after losing some in the hiring process and others to academy failure). This means they would plan to have additional off the street hiring announcements in the future because 400 is not nearly enough.

Someone who left my facility (and the FAA) for a private business opportunity, now works at a contract tower and is waiting to get back in to the FAA. He did not pass the questionnaire.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


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Someone who left my facility (and the FAA) for a private business opportunity, now works at a contract tower and is waiting to get back in to the FAA. He did not pass the questionnaire.

I was roomates with a guy at OKC that had all his D sides at ZBW, quit to go work at a contract military tower in the sandbox for two years, managed to get rehired, and then failed the academy.

EDIT:

Just spoke to one of the other ghost pilots at ZMA, one of my former coworkers, and she got past the bio quiz. She's CTI, and about to age out, but no experience other than CTI and being a ghost pilot.

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Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

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If the FAA didn't is oral sex sin officially step up and say that you had to go to CTI school I don't think there's much of a case. I doubt they'll be held accountable for what individual employees were saying. I'm pretty sure there has always been "public hiring is still an option" type deal in all the bids they've put out.

I don't know. Could be interesting with testimonies from multiple MULTIPLE people.

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Newer rumors from the rumor mill are saying that the 2,000 people who passed the biographical questionnaire on this last announcement are going to move forward in the process. They estimate this will yield as low as 400 controllers graduating the academy (after losing some in the hiring process and others to academy failure). This means they would plan to have additional off the street hiring announcements in the future because 400 is not nearly enough.

Someone who left my facility (and the FAA) for a private business opportunity, now works at a contract tower and is waiting to get back in to the FAA. He did not pass the questionnaire.

Once they have the next opening announcement, everyone copy/pastes the bio-q answers from the people who passed this one.

E: As frustrating as it is not passing, I can't imagine having ATC experience (whether military or otherwise) and still not getting through, especially when some of the questions were "How many sports did you play in high school?"

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Starting to hear a lot of "super center" talk again lately. Not gonna lie, wouldn't have a huge problem moving to Dallas. Lots of good places to fish down there. On the other hand, it would add a few hours to my Denver drive during snowboarding season

I can't help but think of how big of a bullseye something like that would have on it though.

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Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

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Starting to hear a lot of "super center" talk again lately. Not gonna lie, wouldn't have a huge problem moving to Dallas. Lots of good places to fish down there. On the other hand, it would add a few hours to my Denver drive during snowboarding season

I can't help but think of how big of a bullseye something like that would have on it though.

First I've heard of them renewing those talks. I can't imagine it actually going through though, to many people would not want to move.

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First I've heard of them renewing those talks. I can't imagine it actually going through though, to many people would not want to move.

I've heard some talk about it at work and then some guy on reddit that claims to work at KBOI said his ATM is at some meeting where they're discussing it. Apparently cost savings numbers are being run and everything. I'm sure there are plenty of people that wouldn't want to move but would do it anyway because a) good luck finding another job that pays what we make and b) the move would almost assuredly be paid for.

All the centers are old as poo poo anyway and need to be updated. I could certainly see them doing something like that instead of building a bunch of new facilities in their current cities. A new, spider-free building would be pretty cool.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


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I've heard some talk about it at work and then some guy on reddit that claims to work at KBOI said his ATM is at some meeting where they're discussing it. Apparently cost savings numbers are being run and everything. I'm sure there are plenty of people that wouldn't want to move but would do it anyway because a) good luck finding another job that pays what we make and b) the move would almost assuredly be paid for.

All the centers are old as poo poo anyway and need to be updated. I could certainly see them doing something like that instead of building a bunch of new facilities in their current cities. A new, spider-free building would be pretty cool.

Moving ZMA out of loving Miami would be tits.

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Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

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Moving ZMA out of loving Miami would be tits.

I know ZJX almost ended up being in St. Augustine. WOWOWOWOW That would have been great. Why do people want ZMA out of Miami? I know when we were there we were most likely going to buy in FLL.

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All the centers are old as poo poo anyway and need to be updated. I could certainly see them doing something like that instead of building a bunch of new facilities in their current cities. A new, spider-free building would be pretty cool.

Yessssss. ZJX is a pig they keep trying to put new lipstick on. Not to mention how many years they have been removing asbestos out of the place. What kills me, is that instead of building a new facility on the massive piece of land we are on, we just keep letting the goats (I'm dead serious...we have goats) roam around on a few acres while we work in a crap hole falling apart.

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Yessssss. ZJX is a pig they keep trying to put new lipstick on. Not to mention how many years they have been removing asbestos out of the place. What kills me, is that instead of building a new facility on the massive piece of land we are on, we just keep letting the goats (I'm dead serious...we have goats) roam around on a few acres while we work in a crap hole falling apart.

You don't want those poor goats getting mesothelioma do you? That'd be inhumane!

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Yessssss. ZJX is a pig they keep trying to put new lipstick on. Not to mention how many years they have been removing asbestos out of the place. What kills me, is that instead of building a new facility on the massive piece of land we are on, we just keep letting the goats (I'm dead serious...we have goats) roam around on a few acres while we work in a crap hole falling apart.

We just got a guy from ZJX, he hasn't mentioned the goats yet. Just looked it up on google maps, and holy hell you guys are in the middle of nowhere.

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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ZJX = Jacksonville Center, Florida
ZMA = Miami Center, Florida
KBOI = Boise Tower/Approach, Idaho
ATM = Air Traffic Manager (the highest level of air traffic management for a given facility, the chief, the boss, not a controller themselves but a former one)

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Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

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We just got a guy from ZJX, he hasn't mentioned the goats yet. Just looked it up on google maps, and holy hell you guys are in the middle of nowhere.

If he sucks, I can take a wild guess what area in our center he was from.

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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Thought you guys were talking about Gods Of Air Traffic for a second. But no, actual goats.

Our facility has had a feral dog problem in the past. One controller got attacked on the way to his car one morning, it was ugly.

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Iucounu
May 12, 2007




When I was a controller in the Air Force working at Nellis, the tower was infested with giant camel spiders. Fuckers would randomly drop down on you.

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If he sucks, I can take a wild guess what area in our center he was from.

He's still training, no clue if he's good or not. Gonna be kind of funny to watch once he starts working lows since he didn't have them there.

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When I was a controller in the Air Force working at Nellis, the tower was infested with giant camel spiders. Fuckers would randomly drop down on you.

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A relative of mine works at Jacksonville center. I'm kind of weirded out to know he spends his workdays around goons.

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He's still training, no clue if he's good or not. Gonna be kind of funny to watch once he starts working lows since he didn't have them there.

Oh jesus, central or east. Basically, our 6 figure welfare areas. Good luck!

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A relative of mine works at Jacksonville center. I'm kind of weirded out to know he spends his workdays around goons.

I'm the only goon that works there as far as I know, and I am the last person you would look at and figure to be one. Once you get to know me then it's to late.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

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Why do people want ZMA out of Miami? I know when we were there we were most likely going to buy in FLL.


ZMA is in an incredibly congested light-industrial hellhole part of Miami. It's a pain to get to, and there is nowhere to live within twenty minutes of the facility if you're not fluent in Spanish. If you have kids, and want good schools, it's even worse.

My commute involves the Palmetto expressway, the Shula, and the Dolphin interchange. If you're familiar with the area, you'll recognize that it's like traffic hotspot bingo.

Most people do end up living in Lauderdale, or the Broward county suburbs, and I grew up there, and love it, but the commute just blows giant Giraffe dong.

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Apr 26, 2008

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ZMA is in an incredibly congested light-industrial hellhole part of Miami. It's a pain to get to, and there is nowhere to live within twenty minutes of the facility if you're not fluent in Spanish. If you have kids, and want good schools, it's even worse.

My commute involves the Palmetto expressway, the Shula, and the Dolphin interchange. If you're familiar with the area, you'll recognize that it's like traffic hotspot bingo.

Most people do end up living in Lauderdale, or the Broward county suburbs, and I grew up there, and love it, but the commute just blows giant Giraffe dong.

That was mostly my impression the small amount of time we were there. I feel really lucky that we were able to swap to ZJX before we had to settle down. I have a kid, don't speak Spanish, and absolutely loathe traffic. Yeah. No.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

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That was mostly my impression the small amount of time we were there.

When were you here, and were you here as a trainee?

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In the spirit of being pointlessly nosy, have any of you had or seen a TCAS RA go off?

I read on Wikipedia that under Mode S or ADS-B coverage, you can automatically see a TCAS RA when it happens, but that's not exactly sourced nor is it terribly specific whether that's something that happens now or if it's on the big list of NextGen stuff to cram into towers/centers.

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Apr 26, 2008

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When were you here, and were you here as a trainee?

My wife was, for about a week. I was getting hired. We made the case that we couldn't raise a kid there or something something and we got sent to Jax. And it was right after her stint in OKC.

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In the spirit of being pointlessly nosy, have any of you had or seen a TCAS RA go off?

I read on Wikipedia that under Mode S or ADS-B coverage, you can automatically see a TCAS RA when it happens, but that's not exactly sourced nor is it terribly specific whether that's something that happens now or if it's on the big list of NextGen stuff to cram into towers/centers.

I've had one pilot respond to a TCAS RA so far in the two years I've worked. It was an IFR Citation with a VFR Maule 500 ft below them, they had each other in sight, and the RA went off. We have no warning as to when it happens but the pilot reporting they are responding to it. We've got a much older system than a lot of other facilities though.

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