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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

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What is Valeria's relationship to Dr Doom? Why does she call him Uncle?

He delivered her.

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Vincent
Nov 25, 2005

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He delivered her.

He's also her godfather isn't he?

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Originally, she was introduced by Claremont as the alternate future child of Doom and Sue. Then during the subsequent Pacheco/Marín/Loeb run she was retconned into being the baby Sue miscarried back during Byrne's run who had been plucked out of time by Franklin and placed in the alternate future where Sue and Doom raised her. In their last story she was regressed to a foetus and put back in Sue's womb, and she was subsequently delivered by Doom in the very short Adam Warren/Mark Bagley run that immediately preceded Waid's arrival. I think it all falls under Marvel's "it happened, but we don't talk about it any more" policy regarding continuity.

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May 20, 2001

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That's not how I read what I quoted because I largely agree with what you posted, although I would also opine that I don't see anything wrong with Bunn going completely off the ranch if it means a better story. Granted, change enough and the question of "why is this called Magneto when it's a story about a bald older guy who gets sent back in time to hunt cursed guns that lock the gate of hell in the old west" will start to crop up, but I'm not going to reject out of hand a story about a metal-controlling holocaust survivor just because in this version he has a good relationship with his daughter. Creators ideally would have the freedom to use character history if desired, not because of some obligation.

But what you posted, to me, doesn't come across as "acknowledging his dumb past". It comes across as using the current snapshot of character and its relationships and telling a story from there.
I see where you're coming from, and I'm totally cool with non-continuity stories and politely ignoring things, but the problem with the "who really cares?" model is when you 8 year old nude do place a story within continuity and decide to acknowledge/contradict things willy-nilly, not just out of some sort of 'purity' to the characters or some high-handed concept like that, but in terms of storytelling and the implicit agreement with the readers.

Having read Bunn's first issue of Magneto, it definitely takes place in the same overall story as Bendis's Uncanny X-Men, and he references ruling a jungle kingdom, living among the stars, leading nations, etc. A lot of this is circumstantial (and one issue in it absolutely doesn't matter if he spent any time in the Savage Land given the story we're actually shown), but he did do those things. If you accept that in the Magneto story by Cullen Bunn that Magneto is a former ruler of nations, you should also acknowledge what happened in those stories. I'm not saying "be sure to mention Zaladane" but I am saying "the character you're using here used to be involved with Rogue, and killed a lot of people, and had a strained relationship with his children."

I mean, assuming Wanda and Pietro never show up in the comic, or even if he flashbacks a reconciliation between the two somewhere, fine, but all of those things are part of Magneto's history. They can be minimized or readjusted but at a certain point yeah, even if you think they're minor aspects, they probably shouldn't be contradicted or ignored. Or at the very least the people involved should have a solid justification for fudging it, not just "well poo poo I don't know that's not what I wanted to write."

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May 13, 2007

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Originally, she was introduced by Claremont as the alternate future child of Doom and Sue. Then during the subsequent Pacheco/Marín/Loeb run she was retconned into being the baby Sue miscarried back during Byrne's run who had been plucked out of time by Franklin and placed in the alternate future where Sue and Doom raised her. In their last story she was regressed to a foetus and put back in Sue's womb, and she was subsequently delivered by Doom in the very short Adam Warren/Mark Bagley run that immediately preceded Waid's arrival. I think it all falls under Marvel's "it happened, but we don't talk about it any more" policy regarding continuity.

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Let's just go with the first explanation.

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SirDan3k
Jan 6, 2001

Trust me, you are taking this a lot more seriously then I am.


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Let's just go with the first explanation.

Hell last time it was referenced I'm pretty sure it was just hand waved as negative zone/cosmic rays pregnancy complications that only Doom had the facilities and know-how to deal with.

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Sep 11, 2001

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Hell last time it was referenced I'm pretty sure it was just hand waved as negative zone/cosmic rays pregnancy complications that only Doom had the facilities and know-how to deal with.

And as compensation, Doom demanded that she be named "Valeria".

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Waid subsequently revealed that it was all part of a scheme to make her into his magical familiar.

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Apr 18, 2006


Thanks for the information about Valeria.

No thanks for the too much information about Valeria.

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Dec 4, 2004

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Four words:

"Created by Chris Claremont."

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


It should come as a surprise to absolutely no-one that he originally wanted to make Kitty Pryde a regular character (as Franklin's new live-in governess), but then Excalibur ended and she was put back in the X-Men so he had to come up with something else.

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Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



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Four words:

"Created by Chris Claremont."

That Claremont Fantastic Four run is a real shitshow. I've read the issues and I don't think I could explain the plot of it to save my life.

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HitTheTargets
Mar 3, 2006

I came here to laugh at you.


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It should come as a surprise to absolutely no-one that he originally wanted to make Kitty Pryde a regular character (as Franklin's new live-in governess), but then Excalibur ended and she was put back in the X-Men so he had to come up with something else.

I take a small measure of comfort in knowing exactly how a Chris Claremont run on Dr. Who would play out. It almost makes up for the skeeviness of knowing exactly how a Chris Claremont run on Dr. Who would play out.

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Feb 22, 2013

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Hey, has anyone read the Dark Horse "Grindhouse" series at all? I noticed it at my LCBS today and was curious if it was any good before I plunk down any cash. It's apparently six issues in, and looks like (with me just guessing) it might be an anthology series of sorts?

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StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






So what the gently caress is up with the Summers family?

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Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
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So what the gently caress is up with the Summers family?

Got a few hours?

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Dec 21, 2007

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So what the gently caress is up with the Summers family?

Their dad is a space pirate and that's probably the most normal sentence of any explanation you'll get.

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bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


Here is the family tree

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Jan 28, 2006



It's covered a little in the last All-New X-Men or Guardians of the Galaxy in prep for Rucka's Teen Cyclopes and Space Dad comic.

e: Does current Rachel Summers know she'd been with grown up Franklin in the future? It hasn't been alluded to in any modern X-Men of Fantastic Four story I've read.

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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

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That chart is incorrect, Adam X is not the 3rd Summers brother. It's Vulcan.

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bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


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That chart is incorrect, Adam X is not the 3rd Summers brother. It's Vulcan.

Also some characters that they say are dead, are alive like Cable. Also Vulcan is on the chart.

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Mr. Maltose
Feb 16, 2011

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Vulcan's there on the chart too.

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Mar 22, 2003

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Also some characters that they say are dead, are alive like Cable. Also Vulcan is on the chart.

Missed that, but he's in the wrong spot.

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Schneider Heim
Oct 17, 2012


I just finished Alias (great stuff) and towards the end there was a breakout in the Raft. Was it the same breakout in the opening arc of New Avengers, or was that a different thing? Both had the Purple Man in it.

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bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


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I just finished Alias (great stuff) and towards the end there was a breakout in the Raft. Was it the same breakout in the opening arc of New Avengers, or was that a different thing? Both had the Purple Man in it.

Different. Purple Man appeared in the Breakout arc and Luke Cage was there.

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Apr 26, 2008

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Missed that, but he's in the wrong spot.

He's also in the right spot.

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bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


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He's also in the right spot.

Alex should be second and then Vulcan.

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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

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I thought DKen was Vulcan's dad? poo poo, I need to re read some lovely X-Men comics I guess.

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Apr 26, 2008

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Alex should be second and then Vulcan.

The branches just correctly display their progenitors, not birth order. There's also a formatting issue where Alex would need to be on the outside in order to illustrate the relationship with his adoptive family.

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bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


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I thought DKen was Vulcan's dad? poo poo, I need to re read some lovely X-Men comics I guess.

I thought Kathrine Summers was pregnant when they were captured and removed the baby after they killed her.

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Mr. Maltose
Feb 16, 2011

If you ever need the Defenders drawn as ponies or the cast of Doctor Who, I know where to hook you up.

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Nope, apparently Katherine Summers was like two months pregnant or something when they went on that fateful trip.

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Feb 27, 2004

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Wait, Hope's mom is illegal teen 6x to also named Hope Summers?

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Apr 18, 2006


That chart sure makes one ask a lot of questions that can all be answered with the phrase "because the 1990s"

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Wait, Hope's mom is mature women seduce teen also named Hope Summers?
She was named after her!

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StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






This is making me more confused. (Although I do love that his great-grandfather is only 'presumed' dead.)

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Karma Tornado
Dec 21, 2007

The worst kind of tornado.


I love that Scott's grandparents are alive and left him in an orphanage run by a super villain.

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Feb 27, 2004

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She was named after her!
I thought Hope's real name is Spaulding and only changed it when Cable adopted her?

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bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


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I thought Hope's real name is Spaulding and only changed it when Cable adopted her?

From Wikipedia

quote:

During one of the first battles with Bishop, Cable's time traveling device is damaged, so he can only jump into the future, instead of the past, when he needs to escape Bishop each time he finds them. After several jumps into the future, it is revealed that Cable has taken her to the secluded safe haven of New Liberty in the future, where Cable marries a woman named Hope, who is like a mother to the mutant baby.Finding relative peace there, he raises her with Hope until she is seven years old. But then New Liberty is invaded by humanoid insects who called themselves the United States Army, later calling themselves humanoid Blattarians. Cable fights them and leaves New Liberty with his wife and her in order to make sure New Liberty does not fall. After spending months in the wasteland, the family is attacked by the president of the insects, whom Hope manages to save her family from by stabbing the insect in his weak spot, since she has been watching Cable fight. Cable questions the president where he finds out that Bishop, in order to find Hope in the future, has destroyed all the continents in the world and left them uninhabitable, except North America, in order to box them in, find her and kill her. Cable kills the president, and the family moves on. The family encounters a settlement, but are met with resistance. Cable takes care of them easily, but not fast enough, as Hope is shot and dies in Cable's arms while the girl watches. The girl sees Cable bury the closest thing she ever had to a mother and departs with him. After arriving at a church, the pastor asks the name of the child. In that moment, Cable decides to name her Hope Summers, in honor of her adoptive mother.

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Skwirl
May 13, 2007

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You know, people bitching about all the current time travel shenanigans in X-Men clearly aren't long time X-Men readers.

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SirDan3k
Jan 6, 2001

Trust me, you are taking this a lot more seriously then I am.


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You know, people bitching about all the current time travel shenanigans in X-Men clearly aren't long time X-Men readers.

No they are just sick and loving tired of it and extra pissed that Bendis changed the rules because by the old ones the original 5 could actually die or even change as it stands now they are blatantly immortal and immutable in that annoying "wink, wink all comic-book character are" way.

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