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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Grimey Drawer

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It's a Spanish grip foil, not Italian. Don't listen to the turtle, he lies :P What he meant was it was made in Italy, not that the grip is Italian.

The Spanish tang is a bit longer than the French, meaning my unbroken french blade wouldn't work with the Spanish grip and pummel because it's too short in the first place. Turt settled on getting a Spanish offset sword but I don't know what we'll do with my dad's sword. I kind of want to mount it on a wall or something but I really liked the grip so I'm not sure.
Can you post a photo? I'm curious as to exactly what the differences are and to see why you can't fit the new blade to the old grip... for that matter I don't think I've seen a Spanish grip before, either.

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BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

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It's a Spanish grip foil, not Italian. Don't listen to the turtle, he lies :P What he meant was it was made in Italy, not that the grip is Italian.

The Spanish tang is a bit longer than the French, meaning my unbroken french blade wouldn't work with the Spanish grip and pummel because it's too short in the first place. Turt settled on getting a Spanish offset sword but I don't know what we'll do with my dad's sword. I kind of want to mount it on a wall or something but I really liked the grip so I'm not sure.

Huh, I know a guy showed up using one at an old club of mine a while back. He had to switch to a legal grip when he started going to USFA tourneys, but he was using an electric blade with it. I'll have to do some digging and see what he was using.

And, hell, if you can wait until JO's the weekend after next, I'm sure one of the armorers or vendors can clue me into who might be making compatible blades.

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Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
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So that you dishonor him before the judges


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This guy gets it.

Sometimes I like to think of myself as a fencing Giant Dad (Dark Souls). When I'm against a new guy I just run up and spam the same move over and over until they figure out how to neutralize it, or until they ask me for help.

I do the same thing against noobs. I typically sit around to watch what the noobs are learning during the intermediate class, and then try to apply that to training with them.

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El Spamo
Aug 21, 2003



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Huh, I know a guy showed up using one at an old club of mine a while back. He had to switch to a legal grip when he started going to USFA tourneys, but he was using an electric blade with it. I'll have to do some digging and see what he was using.

And, hell, if you can wait until JO's the weekend after next, I'm sure one of the armorers or vendors can clue me into who might be making compatible blades.

Speaking of (il)legal grips, I nearly got dinged one time for having too much tape on my french grip. I had it bulked up with layers of duct tape and sports tape to the point where it was molding ridges around where I gripped it. Plus it was ugly as hell, which I think is also a factor in determining the legality of tape on a grip. If you tape your french, make sure it's neat. I was fairly new to the tournament scene (and it was a small local tournament) so I the ref gave me a friendly warning instead of actually carding me for bad equipment.

I also have a grip that I call 'slimer' because the glue from the tape has seeped out on to the grip. It's really gross if you grab it with your bare hand, but the interaction between the glove and the glue is amazing for grippiness. It's like pine tar on a baseball bat.

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Grimey Drawer

Wow. I do know one guy who went to the trouble of getting some kind of moulding compound to add bits on to his pistol grip to make it mould to his hand better - I have no idea if it actually helps, or if he's been given any stick about it at competitions.

I just looked up Spanish grips on google and that's some funky poo poo. I read that they were illegal due to being able to pommel with too easily, but I see that happening all the time with post grip epees?

Gripchat, I have a foil with one of I have one of sex questions 46 answers and it's really, really comfortable. Unfortunately I accidentally bought another one that I thought was the same, but turned out to be a weird version that has a completely flat face on top where you put your thumb. It feels a bit narrower between the thumb and forefinger which makes me feel like I need to pinch harder to control it, but I guess some people must like that.

BirdOfPlay, what's the worst thing you've ever had to card someone over equipment-wise?

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BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

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BirdOfPlay, what's the worst thing you've ever had to card someone over equipment-wise?

A left-handed kid wearing a righthanded jacket in epee. It was at Nats and the parents had just gotten it stenciled. I've also carded for gloves once or twice.

Luckily, the armorers have a do-hickey that tests French grips at NACs for epee. It's nice, because testing those are a pain in the butt to do.

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Speaking of (il)legal grips, I nearly got dinged one time for having too much tape on my french grip. I had it bulked up with layers of duct tape and sports tape to the point where it was molding ridges around where I gripped it. Plus it was ugly as hell, which I think is also a factor in determining the legality of tape on a grip. If you tape your french, make sure it's neat. I was fairly new to the tournament scene (and it was a small local tournament) so I the ref gave me a friendly warning instead of actually carding me for bad equipment.

That. That would have to be a poo poo ton of tape. I mean, you'd have to be making ridge out of it for it to be illegal. For example, the milley cyrus naked pics would be illegal if put on any other weapon because of the trigger.

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Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008



does fencing ruin this fight scene:

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if so your sport is dumb and bad and i want nothing to do with it

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Zeitgueist
Aug 8, 2003

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does fencing ruin this fight scene:

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if so your sport is dumb and bad and i want nothing to do with it

Only you can ruin a movie fencing scene for yourself.

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thrakkorzog
Nov 16, 2007


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does fencing ruin this fight scene:

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if so your sport is dumb and bad and i want nothing to do with it

That was actually a pretty impressive fight scene. The actors actually look like they know what they were doing when handed a sword. 9/10. They pulled off some decent parrys and ripostes.

The usual complaint against most sword fighting scenes in movies or in plays is that the actors are usually more focused on hitting the other actors sword, instead of trying to stab someone, which is kind of the goal of fencing.

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Grimey Drawer

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That was actually a pretty impressive fight scene. The actors actually look like they know what they were doing when handed a sword. 9/10. They pulled off some decent parrys and ripostes.

The usual complaint against most sword fighting scenes in movies or in plays is that the actors are usually more focused on hitting the other actors sword, instead of trying to stab someone, which is kind of the goal of fencing.
Ditto. I was about to ridicule the pony avatar but this is actually surprisingly close to an actual fencing bout, there's an absolute minimum of one guy waiting for the other to pirouette around and do a long, slow swing so he can jump over it or suchlike. Just plenty of trying to get the pointy bit into the other guy while avoiding their one.

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Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



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That was actually a pretty impressive fight scene. The actors actually look like they know what they were doing when handed a sword. 9/10. They pulled off some decent parrys and ripostes.

The usual complaint against most sword fighting scenes in movies or in plays is that the actors are usually more focused on hitting the other actors sword, instead of trying to stab someone, which is kind of the goal of fencing.

What I love about that fight is how it's both professional and sloppy. They (the characters) have quite clearly been taught the Noble and Honourable Art of Swordsmanship in a nice clean, empty piste. And they're determined to kill each other in that way, because they're gentlemen and that's how gentlemen kill.

But of course they're not on a piste, they're in a crowded office with a dodgy floor. There's all the obvious Errol Flynn stuff with the stairs and the cushion, but I love the little details, the clumsy steps, the little skids. It's really nicely done.

Edit: Also the dude in the background running back and forth with the biggest poo poo-eating grin.

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Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges


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What I love about that fight is how it's both professional and sloppy. They (the characters) have quite clearly been taught the Noble and Honourable Art of Swordsmanship in a nice clean, empty piste. And they're determined to kill each other in that way, because they're gentlemen and that's how gentlemen kill.

But of course they're not on a piste, they're in a crowded office with a dodgy floor. There's all the obvious Errol Flynn stuff with the stairs and the cushion, but I love the little details, the clumsy steps, the little skids. It's really nicely done.

Edit: Also the dude in the background running back and forth with the biggest poo poo-eating grin.

I love that they had to work around the environment. Even in our training space we have to contend with gear bags, walls, and sometimes other people, and it definitely makes a huge difference.

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May 7, 2005



Nap Ghost

What's your opinion on long arms in epee being OP and needing nerf?

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El Spamo
Aug 21, 2003



Arms may be long, but blades are the same length so you always have the same distance to cover to reach their hand.

Hand hits are the best hits.

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ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



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Arms may be long, but blades are the same length so you always have the same distance to cover to reach their hand.

Hand hits are the best hits.

This assumes that you are always within hitting distance. The person with the longer reach will have a distance where he/she can hit the other opponent and the opponent can't hit him/her. This is a significant advantage.

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Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



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Arms may be long, but blades are the same length so you always have the same distance to cover to reach their hand.

Hand hits are the best hits.

Nah, chest hits are the best because most epeeists I know will respond to a direct chest hit by waving their arms and swearing about foilists.

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BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

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What's your opinion on long arms in epee being OP and needing nerf?

I would make a joke about the FIE doing something about it, but then I remembered the French.

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Sep 28, 2008

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What's your opinion on long arms in epee being OP and needing nerf?

It becomes less of an issue past level 20 when you get the dex bonus for short arms.

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Zeitgueist
Aug 8, 2003

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It becomes less of an issue past level 20 when you get the dex bonus for short arms.

You don't get dual wield with a dagger at 20?

Should have gone historical skill tree.

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Grimey Drawer

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You don't get dual wield with a dagger at 20?

Should have gone historical skill tree.
But if you dual wield with a heavy weapon like an epee, your equipment weight goes over the threshold for the fast roll- er, I mean fleche.

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Zeitgueist
Aug 8, 2003

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The Phoenix society of Historical Swordsmanship(out of Arizona, of course), doing an educational demo.

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ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



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The Phoenix society of Historical Swordsmanship(out of Arizona, of course), doing an educational demo.

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And it highlights the biggest issue I have with self-taught Historical fencing: Terrible footwork.

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Zeitgueist
Aug 8, 2003

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And it highlights the biggest issue I have with self-taught Historical fencing: Terrible footwork.

No disagreement, but curious as to what you dislike? A lot of these groups are attempting to work out 500 year old manuscripts that only have rough illustrations, though many folks do have some modern fencing background.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



With the longsword in the very beginning, they're both clearly leading with their feet: Both guys step in before moving the sword, which leaves their face wide open. With the rapier, they're both deathly stiff and look like they're not paying any attention to their measure. I mean, they start off way too close to begin with, and when one guy moves, the other doesn't follow. And then the thin guy keeps presenting his left flank for no reason I can figure, and...

I feel kind of bad pooping on these guys like this, because I'm a complete amateur at any given style (I've just tried a bunch) but... C'mon, guys.

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Zeitgueist
Aug 8, 2003

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With the longsword in the very beginning, they're both clearly leading with their feet: Both guys step in before moving the sword, which leaves their face wide open. With the rapier, they're both deathly stiff and look like they're not paying any attention to their measure. I mean, they start off way too close to begin with, and when one guy moves, the other doesn't follow. And then the thin guy keeps presenting his left flank for no reason I can figure, and...

I feel kind of bad pooping on these guys like this, because I'm a complete amateur at any given style (I've just tried a bunch) but... C'mon, guys.

It's entirely possible they are being sloppy for demonstration, but I have no idea if that's true. You can click on other video's posted and see if it's a one-off or a continual problem.

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Zeitgueist
Aug 8, 2003

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FWIW, I was always taught that your feet should follow your hands/arms, though it's taken me a long time to get my body to actually do that. Also a problem in ballroom dancing.

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ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



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FWIW, I was always taught that your feet should follow your hands/arms.
Before I jump on this, in what context?. Because that's the opposite of what you need to do in almost every sport & martial art, if you want to generate speed and power.

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Before I jump on this, in what context?. Because that's the opposite of what you need to do in almost every sport & martial art, if you want to generate speed and power.

In a historical rapier lunge, for instance, your hand, then your arm, then your hips, then your foot. The mechanics are different, I'm told, from a modern lunge, and this from folks who have 10+ years in modern fencing before they got into historical.

I may be speaking too broadly, and if so, my mistake, I'm by no means an expert.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



You have to remember the sword is fundamentally a labor-saving device. It's basically a wedge on a long lever, right? It breaks people apart much easier than a fist or a foot, so you don't need the same amount of raw power you would in an unarmed art.

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In a historical rapier lunge, for instance, your hand, then your arm, then your hips, then your foot. The mechanics are different, I'm told, from a modern lunge, and this from folks who have 10+ years in modern fencing before they got into historical.

I may be speaking too broadly, and if so, my mistake, I'm by no means an expert.

This is true for modern fencing as well. In general, you usually want to lead with the arm or you will run into the other guy's blade. The hips aren't as important for us, since we use the back leg to generate power/speed. FWIW I learned the same thing in the few historical styles I have learned, but in most unarmed martial arts it is the reverse.

That video reminded me of why I gave up on historical stuff. I respect what they are trying to do, but... Look at them.

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El Spamo
Aug 21, 2003



If you don't start your attack with your arm you will telegraph your action to your opponent and they will not only be able to react with an effective counter-attack but you're also collapsing the distance with your weapon in a non-threatening position. The defending fencer only has to extend their arm in response to your foot motion.

Of course, I speak in terms of epee and modern sport. Foil and sabre (especially) can kinda start their attacks with their feet. Technically not since the attack starts with the forward motion of the blade constituting an attack, but the blade doesn't have to be pointed at anything in particular, just "extending" towards your opponent. What this gets you is foilists making incredibly slow and steady extensions with their arms while advancing madly with their feet maintaining right of way until they've collapsed the distance between themselves and their opponent and are in prime striking position.

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This is true for modern fencing as well. In general, you usually want to lead with the arm or you will run into the other guy's blade. The hips aren't as important for us, since we use the back leg to generate power/speed. FWIW I learned the same thing in the few historical styles I have learned, but in most unarmed martial arts it is the reverse.

That video reminded me of why I gave up on hostorical stuff. I respect what they are trying to do, but... Look at them.

It's fencing, it's kinda silly no matter what. Nobody is going to challenge me to a duel, so might as well go with what interests you. The skinny dude is a history teacher, IIRC.

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Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges


Roland of Dimicator speaks exactly about this.

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Though some people take issue with this because while it works for a thrusting weapon (which the arming sword very well is) it doesn't necessarily effect a cut because you're essentially cutting out of distance, then closing distance. Many historical documents regarding longsword and hewing weapons explicitly detail stepping THEN cutting, though this is more of a guideline than a rule. Feet planted firmly on the ground allows better control of the weapon, hence step first, cut second. Practicing JSA lately has taught me that this is a universal concept (or at least one that my school follows, since our great grand-teacher is a Toyoma Ryu Battodo master).

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Arclight
Jan 26, 2006



Modern-style fencing question for so-inclined goons:

What's your position on point-after celebrations? Back when I fenced regularly in college, I hated having to judge matches where one or both of the fencers celebrated each touch they think they got by shouting and fist-pumping like they just sank an eagle putt on the last hole in the Masters. Best part was the crazed reaction when and if I ruled against them, even after I reasoned my decision out to them. When I fenced, I never shouted or yelled whenever I sex with big woman knew I got a point after a long exchange (though I will admit to the small side fist pump here and there). To me, overblown reactions like this seem kind of uncouth and disrespectful, especially in a one-on-one sport like fencing, but I do realize that I'm probably in the minority, given how many fencers I encountered seemed to do this. Was I just being overly sensitive?

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El Spamo
Aug 21, 2003



Judging, as long as it's not excessive, kept brief and they don't ignore me then they can celebrate. I will and have carded fencers for being disruptive.
When fencing, I feel better when I keep things cool on the strip. After a touch I go straight back to the en-garde line. I like to think it unnerves my opponent that I don't celebrate an important touch but just treat it like it was my expected outcome. That may or may not be true, but it keeps me calm and focused.

After one particular bout though that qualified me for nationals I stepped outside and shouted a bunch.

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mossyfisk
Nov 8, 2010

FF0000


Hah, sounds a lot like cricket.

You shout 'How's that?' at any point a call could possibly go in your favour to force a response from the umpire.

I propose forcing any one who celebrates disruptively to shout 'HOWZAT!?' in a as strong a rural english accent as possible.

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Grimey Drawer

Eh, I don't mind people doing it to me, so long as it's not on every point, somewhat respectful and genuine - an actual celebration rather than an attempt to sway the ref. Because sometimes you land a hit that feels so god drat tiffany amber thiessen porno good, it's hard not to do something (in my case it's usually a short 'ha!', just nonspecific happy/satisfied vocalisation).

Although the opposite tends to happen to me when I do sabre, as I'm terrible, I normally end up looking confused at the ref waiting for them to explain what just happened to me.
[edit]Isn't bost sabreurs charging in, hitting each other, then turning to the ref with a fistpump and a HOWZAT par the course?

I guess stepping before swinging makes sense with a big heavy weapon; the biggest reason behind arm before legs with a foil, epee or sport sabre is that your number 1 priority is to get the pointy bit as close to your opponent as possible while keeping your squishy bits away from theirs. Hence, max your range out.

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ScratchAndSniff
Sep 28, 2008

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I go back and forth on point celebrations. On one hand, it can look disrespectful and disruptive, but on the other hand it can help release tension, and tension can really slow a fencer down.

It's not usually my thing, unless I win an important bout. I don't really care when other guys do it, but in every tournament there always seems to be at least one woman who screams every few seconds so loud the whole place hears her. That can get pretty annoying.

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Zeitgueist
Aug 8, 2003

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Roland of Dimicator speaks exactly about this.

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Nice video, and it matches with what I've been taught.

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ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



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Nice video, and it matches with what I've been taught.

Sorry, that is unmitigated bullshit. His hands suddenly became 3 times slower, when he used the foot first? And when he moved his hand first, his feet suddenly became fast enough?
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Take a look at any sport, boxing, baseball, tabletennis, weightlifting and the body mechanics behind it and you'll see that this guy is full of crap.
It also completely contradicts his point (which is correct)
- Hands are faster than the feet
So in order to deliver an attack at maximum speed & power, you need to start with the feet first and then the hands. Again, this is body mechanics 101 and in no way unique to any specific style of fencing.

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The hips aren't as important for us, since we use the back leg to generate power/speed.

My legs are connected to my hip...don't know about yours...

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