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nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.

I just hope that with the seemingly endless parade of new characters and plotlines, the comic doesn't buckle under it's own weight and just stops unresolved like SFP.

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Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016


Frankly SFP wasn't anywhere close to the total structural collapse Erfworld has been laboring under for years. Like Tetsuo in Akira, it's just all random organs and heaving masses of text.

Sometimes I feel like I can hear the plot and character arcs wheezing "Kill... me..." when I get around to reading updates.

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XkyRauh
Feb 15, 2005

Commander Keen is my hero.

Maybe there'll be a time skip, as we deal with whatever this Generica business is, and by the time we get back to what we left behind, we'll be on the next turn?

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Geocities Homepage King
Nov 26, 2007

I have good news, and I have bad news.
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Fun Shoe

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Maybe there'll be a time skip, as we deal with whatever this Generica business is, and by the time we get back to what we left behind, we'll be on the next turn?

The next turn and each side will inexplicably have 4 more casters/warlords all with wacky character traits.

Also they'll all be point of view characters in different cities.

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Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

As long as we get Cubbins' explanation of why Hat Magic is the pivot of the universe (and how much he wants to smooch Ace Hardware) I don't care.

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nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.

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As long as we get Cubbins' explanation of why Hat Magic is the pivot of the universe (and how much he wants to smooch Ace Hardware) I don't care.

It'll turn out that Erfworld's own Signamancy borrows heavenly from Pratchett and the world is thus balanced on top of 4 elephants, standing on top of a space turtle.

The turtle wears the elephants and the hex-map as a hat.

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Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016


The only good hat metaphysics is totally destroying Signamancy by wearing an important object as a hat.

Total recontextualization, like in Starslip Crisis' best storyline.

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Oct 9, 2012



What is SFP

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What is SFP

A dead webcomic that showed some promise in the beginning only to turn to complete mush.

It went from

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Jan 19, 2007

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The only good hat metaphysics is totally destroying Signamancy by wearing an important object as a hat.

Total recontextualization, like in Starslip Crisis' best storyline.

I love Starslip Crisis so intensely and so rarely get a chance to say so. To have a web comic as a good and complete and satisfyingly concluded story sitting on my shelf, with no chance for future less good updates to retroactively ruin anything is such a rare and precious thing,

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super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

No need to sign, we'll take care of that.


Lipstick Apathy

I'd have let this interlude of "everyone gets a Temple" slide had it just been edited into a single update. We really didn't need two updates worth of about some probably trivial side in order to get there, especially when we're all worn out from the slog of character bloat and plot creep.

I really hate Tondy a lot because she was a prime example of it. How many updates did we have getting to know a character who died and won't be important unless she gets decrypted, which will be so far from the time she died they might as well have saved most of her backstory for after she's decrypted.


A miserable pile of Clevin.

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sirtommygunn
Mar 7, 2013

Revelry in the Dark


I stopped reading this for about 6 months, came back and caught up on it all over the past few days and just... jesus christ. I can't even summarize what happened, everything is so needlessly complicated yet nothing happens as a result of it. These recent pages have been so dense and pointless that I actually remember sex with his aunt less of the main character's names than I did before I started. I had to look them up to write this post.

Wanda's dead, I guess, that would have been fine as the end of the book last year, but now I'm left wondering why all this was necessary to lead up to that. There were plenty of opportunities to have "the dirtamancers find a way to dig bedrock, head down, catch and kill wanda" happen, but for some reason we need 100 pages to get there. The thing is, though, that I don't feel anything about her dying. Who gives a poo poo, the reason I hated her was because she kept spouting her fatalistic bullshit and now it seems like every member of the cast believes the same thing, so what does that leave her with for unique personality traits? If you figure it out, let me know.

Every single member of the main cast is just loving brain dead suddenly, and if they ever try anything it doesn't work. Parson, who has explicitly been fighting against fate this whole time, has an entire page where he thinks to himself "fate is a fucker, it is out to get me, my bracer is actively lying to me in service of fate, so let's just go along with it I guess it'll probably work out" all so we can bullshit a way that he will be taken kim kardashians naked pics away from the action. Jack gets a lot of screen time and inner monologues just to end up literally standing in a corner going "oh?" whenever someone talks and then getting effortlessly shoved aside when he finally makes the decision to do SOMETHING. Stanley and Sizemore have spent the entire book I think sitting in the loving basement. Maggie at least gets to do something, but only through the power of other characters, also none of it ends up mattering.

I'm not gonna comment on the "side" characters and temples beyond "I really don't give a poo poo about any of them and their inclusion actively makes the story worse".

I'm gonna quit this again but just like the last time I swore it off I'm sure ill come binge read it again in 6 months.

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Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016


At this point, after a long, slow falling-away I follow this thread instead of reading the extended web-novel I never signed on for about the uninteresting yet overcomplicated inner lives of Hat Magicians.

And then I go read a specific update when it seems like it might have something interesting in it and usually it wasn't worth it.

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Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

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I really hate Tondy a lot because she was a prime example of it. How many updates did we have getting to know a character who died and won't be important unless she gets decrypted, which will be so far from the time she died they might as well have saved most of her backstory for after she's decrypted.

Tondelayo is... actually pretty important as a window into Charlie's less heartless side? Like, it's a big deal that the five people who actually know him really do care about him as a person, and he cares about them more than you might think he was capable of doing.

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Nov 9, 2016


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Tondelayo is... actually pretty important as a window into Charlie's less heartless side? Like, it's a big deal that the five people who actually know him really do care about him as a person, and he cares about them more than you might think he was capable of doing.

See, I have to disagree: This matters only in the context of a story that does something with it.

Otherwise, structurally, you've built a robust setting, not a robust story. Everyone has their sides and facets, but, only the parts that enrich the story matter. Charlie's own perspective, with his addictions and his paternalistic relationship with his side, do enough to humanize him for what's actually been done with him.

This is sort of the overarching issue I have with all the extra characters - many of them serve to flesh out the setting in a way that's fine for a bonus for the fans, but doesn't in any way shape the actual narrative. And when these asides HAVE been brought in to be vital to the story, it's in clumsy and uninteresting ways like 'everything to do with Strings' and the puppet guy. Characterization for the sake of filling out pages, or just filling gaps in the setting, is a garnish - it shouldn't be the main course.

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Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.


Basically we need to start a petition to pull Balder off this comic and replace him with Brandon Sanderson.

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ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012



The occasional "this is the life of a random stabber" page was pretty cool in book 2

It now feels like a majority of pages are like that

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Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


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Basically we need to start a petition to pull Balder off this comic and replace him with Brandon Sanderson.

Imagine the Sanderson conclusion of a chaotic event, rapidly jumping between viewpoint characters, where they only succeed because of everyone's unique skills.

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

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See, I have to disagree: This matters only in the context of a story that does something with it.

Otherwise, structurally, you've built a robust setting, not a robust story. Everyone has their sides and facets, but, only the parts that enrich the story matter. Charlie's own perspective, with his addictions and his paternalistic relationship with his side, do enough to humanize him for what's actually been done with him.

This is sort of the overarching issue I have with all the extra characters - many of them serve to flesh out the setting in a way that's fine for a bonus for the fans, but doesn't in any way shape the actual narrative. And when these asides HAVE been brought in to be vital to the story, it's in clumsy and uninteresting ways like 'everything to do with Strings' and the puppet guy. Characterization for the sake of filling out pages, or just filling gaps in the setting, is a garnish - it shouldn't be the main course.

My own guess, this kind of thing is what happens when the author spends too much time building the setting and not enough time planning the plot.

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Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008


One thing I will say for Erfworld. As disgruntled as I am with the meandering plot, I can't quit it or give it a few months off. I check it habitually. I accidentally quit gunnerkrigg court and that comic is intriguing, beautiful and well paced. But even with Erfworld hiatuses, slow pace or bad update schedule I'm still a crow in a cage pecking for food pellets hoping surely one will drop this time.

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super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

No need to sign, we'll take care of that.


Lipstick Apathy

https://www.erfworld.com/blog/view/61963/state-of-the-erf-part-2 posted:

Hoo boy. Yeah, let's do this one first. Let the bummers continue.

Mine4Erf, the Ads, and the Crash of Crypto

We had ads on this website for many years. Often, they were terrible ads. Misbehaving ads. Ads that blasted audio in your browser, or made your phone go to some crappy app in the Google play store. But they were ads that paid the bills. At their peak, our ads were regularly bringing in $3500-$4500 a month. That was a $50,000 a year pillar of our business model, and it was the main way that I was paying our web team for all their hard work.

In February, we rolled out a system where a few readers with high-performance GPUs could mine cryptocurrency for Erfworld and replace that revenue stream, getting rid of ads for everybody. It worked well enough for a while that we removed the ads completely. At the time we did it, I wrote optimistically about the price of $ETH "recovering" back up to somewhere north of $900.

Yyyyyeah. Nearly every cryptocurrency has been, er, (how to delicately put this) plummeting like a dead osprey ever since. This past month, most coins have been in freefall. Right now, $ETH is flirting with $100. Rather than thousands of dollars a month, our trailing revenue from Mine4Erf for the past 30 days is something around...$118? Yeesh.

Obviously, we're going to have to do something about that. It's essentially asking the web team to take a gigantic pay cut just to keep those obnoxious ads off this site. John, Red, and Brendan wanted me to say that they all hate the ads, and you know how much I hate them.

So, yeah...we really can't stomach the idea of bringing ads back yet. For now, let's just note a $50,000 year hole that needs filling, and move on to the other gaping money sinkholes of 2018.

I'd feel bad if I hadn't scoffed at this from the start. Don't base your finances on buttcoins.

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Galvanik
Feb 28, 2013



I want to feel bad for them, but cryptocurrency is obviously a ponzi scheme and ever since I found out it existed I've felt like anyone who gets into it was only hoping to dupe someone further down the line.

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Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Goodness. Balder wrote about it with such confidence and seems generally smart enough that I sort of thought he had some kind of solid investment plan. Like, he was going to sell the ethereum while it was riding high, or something.

Instead, he held until it was valueless. Rough stuff.

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Mar 21, 2013


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Goodness. Balder wrote about it with such confidence and seems generally smart enough that I sort of thought he had some kind of solid investment plan. Like, he was going to sell the ethereum while it was riding high, or something.

Instead, he held until it was valueless. Rough stuff.
Eh, it just sounds like he's selling as it comes in, which is the correct play. Just that it's coming in at 1/10th the value now.

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nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.

LOL just LOL if erfworld ends up (nearly) dying again cause he was so convinced cryptocurrency was the wave of the future.

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Jun 6, 2011

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Most shocking news for me was that Balder is nearly 50. I'd assumed he was close to Parson's age.

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DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

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love too go to a once a week update schedule, and count a blog post about falling for crypto scams as an “update,” and also split it in two so it counts as two updates

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love too go to a once a week update schedule, and count a blog post about falling for crypto scams as an “update,” and also split it in two so it counts as two updates

I’m fairly sure he didn’t charge people for either of the past two blog post updates, judging by how he mentioned “four missed updates” or some such.

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ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012



quote:

But at this point in the telling, there's a hitch. At this turn in the series, Erfworld becomes extremely demanding on the illustrators. Minor spoilers below, but if you are caught up with updates, you should probably read on.

Here's what's about to happen. We are going to take a long pause from following Parson and the other main characters. ("Long" means around 12 to 20 updates.) Also, the rate of updates is going to be significantly slower than usual.

Yikes, I hear you say, why is that?

Well, it should not necessarily be a "yikes" moment. But it is necessarily...necessary.

Erfworld is a world. It is a great big fictional place, with an estimated 200 capital sides. Part of the problem with confining most of the main narrative to Gobwin Knob, Jetstone, Transylvito, Charlescomm, Faq, and a few surrounding sides so far is that it can leave a reader with the sense that "The Great Western Conflict" is the only part of the Erfworld where important events ever happen.

With the awakening/creation of the Tutelaries, we are now about to experience politics on a worldwide scale. A lot of new settings, sides, and characters need to be introduced in a hurry, because what distant actors say and do is about to matter to our mains. So I would like a chance to breeze through and have you meet the bulk of those new faces and places all at once, as a prelude to Book 5.

These updates will be like the "Generica" ones, just brief vignettes about the awakening of a particular Temple. With permission, I'm even using some of these updates to canonize some of our Kickstarter backers who are still owed a "character sheet" reward, as a way of getting caught up on some of our deliquent promises from projects past. The preludes should be pretty light and entertaining. The story has gotten a little grim lately, so it's a good time to have some fun with it again. I think you'll like this stretch.

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Feb 3, 2012

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“Erfworld fans— we’ve heard you. We understand why you got into the comic in the first place, and we understand we’ve been moving away from that. We apologize. Erfworld is nothing without our fans, and we owe you everything. Therefore, I want to make a very special announcement that’s sure to please all of you: we’re going to an even slower update schedule, and those updates will all be rambling pun-clogged anecdotes about people you’ve never met before in parts of the world that have nothing to do with the main story.

We’re really proud of this new* direction for Erfworld and can’t wait to explore it with you. Please buy my bitcoins.”

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DeadBonesBrook
May 31, 2011


If Erfworld had a regular Patreon with a fixed monthly cost then I'd support it in a heartbeat. The whole Toolshed thing feels like an unnecessary expense to maintain and I'm not keen on supporting something on a per-update basis when the number of updates can vary at any time.

The same felt true of the cryptocurrency thing - the way it was implemented felt needlessly complicated for something that should have been simple.

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He needs needlessly complicated systems to justify having an entire "web team" that he needs money for. He's a job creator!

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Ugh. So 12 to 20 updates introducing new sides. At the 2 update a week schedule with no missed updates, that would be 6 to 10 weeks, or 1.5 to 2 months. But he's also introducing a "significantly slower update schedule". So maybe one update a week? That means we're going to be spending 3 to 6 months on this.

Not only does it mean that we're not going to get to see what happened to Jack or Maggie or Parson or Wanda or Marie or even (ugh) Jillian for a few months, but each of these intro pieces are going to be about the awakening of temples (now called Tutelaries) in those sides. Which means that they're going to be happening at the same time as Shirley and Huehue were created. Which means that they're all going to be set during the same turn that we've been on for download hentai porn videos two years already*.

The sad part is that I would have been absolutely fine with more side stories if the end of Book 4 hadn't been such a wet fart. I liked the backer stories. But they came after the end of Book 2, which wrapped up cleanly with the end of a battle, a game-changing move from Parson, and a 25-page epilogue. Meanwhile, Book 4 ended with contract-fu, the sudden suicide of Caesar, the death of Wanda and the birth of the Arkenpliers, the failure of the portal-rigging that had been teased for a hundred pages, a bunch of tower asspulls, and a four-page epilogue. It doesn't really feel like things have been wrapped up at all.

*Yes, I went back and looked. That turn started on Book 4, page 66, which was posted on Nov 15, 2016.

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“We’re really proud of this new* direction for Erfworld and can’t wait to explore it with you. Please buy my bitcoins.”
I don't even read ErfWorld any more, but the blog update showed up in my "recommended" feed, so I gave it a look. I feel really bad because the well-being of Rob's wife is hanging in the balance here, dependant on him somehow figuring out how to be less of a cock-up. If it weren't for that, this whole debacle would be the most fascinating and hilarious well-digging in the history of webcomics.

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Geocities Homepage King
Nov 26, 2007

I have good news, and I have bad news.
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Most shocking news for me was that Balder is nearly 50. I'd assumed he was close to Parson's age.

Maybe back when the strip started.

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Grimey Drawer

So if I come back around June, the temp crap will have passed and we're back to the main plot? Cool.

Also while Balder is good at writing, he's terrible at managing a business. His crew is too big and he's spending money in stupid ways. What's wrong with Amazon Marketplace, what's the idea with whatever the loyalty points are and crypto mining to replace ads? He obviously has at least somewhat successful product and it hurts me to see the core of the entire thing suffer from silly business ideas. Special mention towards whoever the webmaster is because the site looks real busy and confused.

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If Erfworld had a regular Patreon with a fixed monthly cost then I'd support it in a heartbeat. The whole Toolshed thing feels like an unnecessary expense to maintain and I'm not keen on supporting something on a per-update basis when the number of updates can vary at any time.

The same felt true of the cryptocurrency thing - the way it was implemented felt needlessly complicated for something that should have been simple.

You can do Patreon per-update though...

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Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.


Ugh, I feel bad but I kept thinking that half these pitfalls could have been avoided. Maybe look up how much health insurance costs in Maryland before you move there. Maybe check out the costs of shipping all your product before you settle on an out-of-the-way warehouse. Maybe you can just run ads from a reputable network that doesn't hijack your phone? I dunno. (I was gonna add "maybe don't count on paying a couple months of cancer treatment out of pocket till the health insurance kicks in", but that's maybe getting too personal. But honestly, that seems like an outrageously expensive decision.)

I was also surprised to find out he was fifty, I always assumed he was in his thirties.

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nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.

Like Erfworld, Balder thrives on the needlessly complex.

Unlike Erfworld, Balder doesn't have acces to Deus Ex Machinae or Plot.

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Ugh, I feel bad but I kept thinking that half these pitfalls could have been avoided. Maybe look up how much health insurance costs in Maryland before you move there. Maybe check out the costs of shipping all your product before you settle on an out-of-the-way warehouse. Maybe you can just run ads from a reputable network that doesn't hijack your phone? I dunno. (I was gonna add "maybe don't count on paying a couple months of cancer treatment out of pocket till the health insurance kicks in", but that's maybe getting too personal. But honestly, that seems like an outrageously expensive decision.)

As I understand it, the moving was to get closer to the hospital where the wife is getting her treatment. Half the problems he's dealing with are forced errors due to the necessities of the treatment. His business planning is on the unusual side but maybe it would have worked better had the cancer not entered the picture.

No matter how reputable an ad network is there will always be advertisers doing their best to slip in bad ads. Pretty much every small site I've seen running ads will lament how impossible it is to get an advertiser that pays worth a drat without ruining the site periodically.

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