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Castor Poe
Jul 19, 2010

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NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


I would definitely advise reading The Black Casebook before R.I.P., which is the next trade after Black Glove.

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Grimey Drawer

Politely disagree.

I have sucked down the entire Morrison oeuvre and have never felt the need to actually read any of the stories contained within TBC. I'm glad the collection exists, but that's about it.

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NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


Fair enough, but I personally consider R.I.P. to be both Morrison's best work ever and my favorite Batman story, and most of the reason I enjoyed it as much as I did was noticing how Morrison integrated Silver Age canon and making it coherent within the story. I think it's his best accomplishment (speaking as a guy who finds Morrison divisive at best and often too pretentious and vague) in weaving a story that both makes sense on its own merits look at me naked and when viewed in the context of TBC, and I felt like reading the latter made the former even better.

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Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



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Arkham Asylum aside, what are the best books from G-Mo's run? I'm on a tight budget at the moment and can't really afford to buy the whole thing.

Batman: Gothic is a great, overlooked stand-alone story he and Klaus Janson did for Legends of the Dark Knight back in the day.

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The Black Casebook is a fun, worthwhile read if you want to see where all of the ideas came from, but all you really need to know to make sense of Morrison's run is that Batman had a lot of weird adventures earlier in his career. (and that he met and inspired a bunch of heroes in other countries). It's definitely something to skip if you're on a tight budget.


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Batman: Gothic is a great, overlooked stand-alone story he and Klaus Janson did for Legends of the Dark Knight back in the day.

Legends of the Dark Knight might as well be called Batman: Deep Cuts.

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Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



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Legends of the Dark Knight might as well be called Batman: Deep Cuts.

Yuuuuup. I forget if Matt Wagner's "Faces" was in that book too, that's a good one.

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Jan 20, 2006

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Also, Arkham Asylum is pretty handily Morrison's worst Batman story, barring maybe that computer issue of Inc

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Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



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Also, Arkham Asylum is pretty handily Morrison's worst Batman story, barring maybe that computer issue of Inc

I'd say most of Batman Inc. is pretty bad, whereas Arkham Asylum is very good

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Also, Arkham Asylum is pretty handily Morrison's worst Batman story, barring maybe that computer issue of Inc
What is your opinion of the prose issue?

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Jan 20, 2006

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I'd say most of Batman Inc. is pretty bad, whereas Arkham Asylum is very good

Then I say we should each call out to this poster and see which one of us they come to, that's how we'll decide who is the correct opinion haver

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What is your opinion of the prose issue?

The art is obviously rough af, but I think the over-wroughtness of the prose is a little more excusable when you realize it's supposed to be Bruce writing it (if I remember correctly) in the hardboiled style he uses for the Black Casebook. And I think the ideas and themes in it--Joker's super-sanity and so on--are interesting and get followed up on in cool ways, like in Time and the Batman. Is it the best issue of the run? Not by a long shot, but at least it doesn't have Maxie Zeus eating his own poo poo.

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Sep 18, 2009

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I'd say most of Batman Inc. is pretty bad, whereas Arkham Asylum is very good

Batman Inc wasn't nearly as dark as the rest of his run, but I think that was the point. It established Batman as a globe trotting hero with a network of similar heroes all over. The art was also much softer compared to the pre-Inc comics. Everything was very fun until people start getting stabbed near the end, but it was so well done, it felt like he stakes couldn't be higher.

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Jul 22, 2007



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Batman Inc wasn't nearly as dark as the rest of his run, but I think that was the point. It established Batman as a globe trotting hero with a network of similar heroes all over. The art was also much softer compared to the pre-Inc comics. Everything was very fun until people start getting stabbed near the end, but it was so well done, it felt like he stakes couldn't be higher.

It wasn't the lack of darkness that bothered me, it just felt like after bringing Bruce Wayne back to life he kinda lost the thread a bit and just started throwing all his random remaining ideas for Batman stories into the book in case he never got a chance to tell them again, and only about half of them felt fleshed out. Getting derailed by the New 52 thing couldn't have helped either, and by the end his disinterest was palpable (I also wasn't a fan of the artist that did that opening Catwoman story so it got off to a bad start with me).

I didn't care for his Action Comics run either, so around that time it just felt like he was running out of things to say about superheroes. I've liked a lot of his creator-owned stuff since, Nameless in particular was great.

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I would like to know more about what you mean, exactly.

(I've played all through Knight (on PC!), so feel free to go into deets)

So for what it's worth, I'm still early and I'm sure other stuff may change this read on events, but...

I think we can all safely agree the biggest issue of Killing Joke (2016) is the tacked-on romance angle at the start which goes nowhere and doesn't tie into the actual adaptation at all. Rather than assuming you'd feel bad for Barbara on the merits of being crippled or because you feel for her father in the midst of his One lovely Day*, they go "ah, now he got to Batman through Batgirl". Even in the original story, Batman being part of it was minimal, just a way for Gordon to go "This will not break me, and you will not do anything stupid on my behalf".

Arkham Knight gives you a lot of meat to work with for similar (but not identical) beats when we've got a few hours of lead-in where Barbara's your main contact by a mile, and they do a few things with this: she's shown to really be worried for Bruce in his shittiest odds ever**, she may or may not know he's got a degenerative illness, and she's also not above going 'You're wrong and you're being an rear end in a top hat' to him. It's a way to make them seem a lot closer without having to go to any ham-handed lengths. Then she gets jacked, but, again, a lot of meat here. We know the reason she's taken is because removing Oracle is seen as a way to cripple Batman's organization. Gordon reads it as "this is to gently caress with me" until shown otherwise, at which point he goes "You god damned jackass, putting my daughter in this superhero chess match". And Batman clearly reads it as both a strike against his capabilities but also just a huge personal fear - they even reuse the Killing Joke scene itself but with the twist of "you always worried this would happen" graffiti. As an extra nod, and maybe it's just that this role is Hamill going full ham lending this line something better, head-Joker just goes "You know, why the hell would Scarecrow know this was here/to go for Barbara? I was just dicking with her father, and got lucky it set you off too."

So yeah. A real similar setup reaching two different ends.

* No, I'm not downplaying her lovely day, but it's not part of the original story and they clearly did not try to make it more so in the adaptation.
** In this universe.

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Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006



I see stars when you post!

The #VisibleWomen hashtag currently trending on twitter is neat and full of comic creators worth noting the existence of.

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Also, Arkham Asylum is pretty handily Morrison's worst Batman story, barring maybe that computer issue of Inc

Agree with this. AA was Morrison more interested in ideas than story or character. If anything that is his biggest weakness but he can hide it well usually, but in AA it's glaring.

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Hulu is going to produce/air a documentary about Bill Finger.

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Jul 22, 2007



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Agree with this. AA was Morrison more interested in ideas than story or character. If anything that is his biggest weakness but he can hide it well usually, but in AA it's glaring.

I kinda get what you're saying, but I feel like the big ideas in Arkham Asylum are all heavily character based, particularly the Batman and Two-Face stuff. The Batman of Arkham Asylum is not really the Batman we're familiar with, but he's still a compelling, fleshed out character.

I will say this, though: The Batman of Arkham by Alan Grant is even better, and one of my favorite Batman stories.

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Open Marriage Night
Sep 18, 2009

"Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Batman in AA was as fleshed out as he needed to be for a gothic take on Alice in Wonderland. AA and when someone posted the one page from Animal Man here, put me in a Grant Morrison hole I never escaped.

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Nov 13, 2007
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Hulu is going to produce/air a documentary about Bill Finger.

Had to do a triple take there as my sleep-fogged eyes read that as young homemade porn movies "Hulk is going to produce/air a documentary about Bill Finger".

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Batman: Gothic is a great, overlooked stand-alone story he and Klaus Janson did for Legends of the Dark Knight back in the day.

Yeah, it's pretty good. Hands down one of my favorite LOTDK stories along with Snow, Venom, Prey, Ego, Faces and Going Sane. As I was browsing Amazon for batbooks, I found out that there's an Absolute Batman: Year One coming out November 8.


quote:

This oversize Absolute edition includes artist David Mazzucchelli's original pencil pages, sketches and script pages from Frank Miller, along with other bonus materials, all presented in a gorgeous slipcase.

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Holy poo poo, you guys gotta watch stranger things if you haven't. Totally geeking out about it rn

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drat Marvel, can Sue Storm not catch a break?

Is she back somewhere? I read Marvel through unlimited so I'm six months behind. I don't want spoilers aside from "she's back and in this book"

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Also, my slow read through of all of Claremont's X-Men has reached the Bill Scienkawitz Era of New Mutants and God drat is it some beautiful poo poo. I didn't hate the way other people drew Warlock, but seeing the original I sorta think they should have retired him in the same way Rolf from the Muppets quit talking when Jim Henson died.

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Of course the Bill Sienkiewicz era also has a demon bear that turns 2 white people into (and I'm quoting, and because the 80s were a different time) "Red Indians."

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Of course the Bill Sienkiewicz era also has a demon bear that turns 2 white people into (and I'm quoting, and because the 80s were a different time) "Red Indians."

Not as bad as it could be.

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Not as bad as it could be.



I mean, the problematic poo poo I'm talking about was written at least 20 years later than that.

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I mean, the problematic poo poo I'm talking about was written at least 20 years later than that.

You know what was even later than that? Dust, of the New X-Men.

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Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006



I see stars when you post!

For whatever reason, non-white X-men getting racist powers is something that only very recently went away. Even Astonishing X-men had loving Armor or whatever she's called.

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Aw, I liked Armor. Jubilee is one of my favorites too.

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Having racist powers doesn't make you a worthless character, it's just really unfortunate.

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I was like ten when I was reading Jubilee in comics, I didn't remotely get the connection. I just thought it was a good fit for her personality.

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I didn't get Jubes until someone pointed it out to me, but Armor is just ridiculous. Ancestor powered anime robots? And she has a storyline where she dishonors her family or whatever and they fight a giant monster? Ugh. Sunfire is the most balls out extreme, having an entire Japanese flag costume(beat that Katana!) and having powers because rambling rose sex scenes his mom was pregnant with him at Hiroshima.

Wait, Surge was Asian, wasn't she? Her powers are vaguely tech related but she's not super smart or anything, so I think she scrapes by. And I think Wallflower was South American?

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For whatever reason, non-white X-men getting racist powers is something that only very recently went away. Even Astonishing X-men had loving Armor or whatever she's called.

Hey there's Storm and, uhm, uhm, uhm maybe Sunspot?

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Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



They made up for Storm's powers not being racist with everything else.

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Is she back somewhere? I read Marvel through unlimited so I'm six months behind. I don't want spoilers aside from "she's back and in this book"

That was just a joke about the visible women thing.

She's not back yet.

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I didn't get Jubes until someone pointed it out to me, but Armor is just ridiculous. Ancestor powered anime robots? And she has a storyline where she dishonors her family or whatever and they fight a giant monster? Ugh. Sunfire is the most balls out extreme, having an entire Japanese flag costume(beat that Katana!) and having powers because porno hentai anime manga his mom was pregnant with him at Hiroshima.

Wait, Surge was Asian, wasn't she? Her powers are vaguely tech related but she's not super smart or anything, so I think she scrapes by. And I think Wallflower was South American?

Yeah, Surge is Japanese.

Why is Jubilee racist? Is it because the Chinese invented fireworks? That's kinda a stretch, she makes flashy sparks, she's not throwing flaming dragons or whatever.

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