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SnatchRabbit
Feb 23, 2006


Isn't change supposed to make things different?

I've been doing BJJ 2-3 times a week for a little over a year now. I noticed today that my left ear, specifically the inner cartilege part is a bit swollen maybe bruised with a bit of pain. I'm worried about cauliflower ear. I know I should probably start wearing earguards, but will a general practice doctor be able to do anything about this or do I need to go a sports medicine doc?

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Kekekela
Oct 28, 2004

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will a general practice doctor be able to do anything about this

I'm sure it varies, but the fuckhead I went to the first time I got it wouldn't even drain it for me, he wanted to send me to a plastic surgeon.

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ihop
Jul 23, 2001
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I bet the coaches at your gym can help. We have a supply of syringes, sterilization stuff, and several eager amateur surgeons who are happy to drain crunched ears.

Whether or not this is a good idea I can't say.

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Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

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I'm sure it varies, but the fuckhead I went to the first time I got it wouldn't even drain it for me, he wanted to send me to a plastic surgeon.

It all depends on what they're comfortable with. I would imagine he was worried he would mess it up and you could end up worse with a bad ear or no ear and he would have a lawsuit.

In my experience there is often a doctor or nurse who trains that knows the procedure and everyone just goes to them.

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It all depends on what they're comfortable with. I would imagine he was worried he would mess it up and you could end up worse with a bad ear or no ear and he would have a lawsuit.

In my experience there is often a doctor or nurse who trains that knows the procedure and everyone just goes to them.

My new doctor, who reminds me a lot of the Tim Roth character in Lie To Me, massages them lovingly and calls them wrestler ears.

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Kibbles n Shits
Apr 8, 2006

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I am seriously considering taking some MA classes, and a big reason is because they scare me shitless, and I want to learn discipline in the face of adversity. I feel the need to be pushed far outside my comfort zone and I can't think of a better or more direct way to do it. Thinking about BJJ classes in my area because I don't want to get punched in the face intentionally. Good enough reasoning? I am a skinny fat goony goon and I feel embarrassed even thinking about it.

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As long as your comfortable being terrible at it for like at least a year then you will be fine with just a little diligence and work ethic

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Apr 8, 2006

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As long as your comfortable being terrible at it for like at least a year then you will be fine with just a little diligence and work ethic

Yea definitely, I doubt I'll ever be seriously competitive, but as long as I can learn and grow I'm all for it.

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Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Worst decision I ever made.


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I am seriously considering taking some MA classes, and a big reason is because they scare me shitless, and I want to learn discipline in the face of adversity. I feel the need to be pushed far outside my comfort zone and I can't think of a better or more direct way to do it. Thinking about BJJ classes in my area because I don't want to get punched in the face intentionally. Good enough reasoning? I am a skinny fat goony goon and I feel embarrassed even thinking about it.

Do it all sorts of people in probably worse shape then you have done it. I started as a big fat goony goon and am currently a smaller goony goon.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



That's a really good reason to pick up a martial art, and BJJ is a good match for it.

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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




BJJ is fun. I think of it now like I think of board games - "gosh, it'll be great jolly fun to go roll a bit. Wouldn't that be swell?"

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Jan 26, 2006


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That's a really good reason to pick up a martial art, and BJJ is a good match for it.

Agreed

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Aug 5, 2003

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If someone is going for pressure points in BJJ they are leaving themselves open to something. Whichever limb they're using to waste time is a limb not defending a sub or sweep or setting up a real technique. If he's putting fingers in your ribs while in guard, he's asking for a triangle or arm at.

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Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

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I am seriously considering taking some MA classes, and a big reason is because they scare me shitless, and I want to learn discipline in the face of adversity. I feel the need to be pushed far outside my comfort zone and I can't think of a better or more direct way to do it. Thinking about BJJ classes in my area because I don't want to get punched in the face intentionally. Good enough reasoning? I am a skinny fat goony goon and I feel embarrassed even thinking about it.

go! do it!

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SnatchRabbit
Feb 23, 2006


Isn't change supposed to make things different?

As a newbie BJJer, I'm gonna go ahead and say do it. Like others have said, prepare to be smashed for at least the first year.

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KingColliwog
May 15, 2003

Let's go droogs

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I am seriously considering taking some MA classes, and a big reason is because they scare me shitless, and I want to learn discipline in the face of adversity. I feel the need to be pushed far outside my comfort zone and I can't think of a better or more direct way to do it. Thinking about BJJ classes in my area because I don't want to get punched in the face intentionally. Good enough reasoning? I am a skinny fat goony goon and I feel embarrassed even thinking about it.


That'S a great reason to do a MA. Judo did WONDERS for my confidence, general attitude in life, social skills and resiliance to failure.

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Kibbles n Shits
Apr 8, 2006

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Thanks for the words of encouragement, I'm gonna take some free classes at a few local gyms!

I can live with a few bumps and bruises and I have zero ego. But for me this is like going back to school with all the other bigger stronger guys who chose me to show off on. Going into a public place and surrounding myself with perfect strangers is hard enough, and I'm about to juxtapose that with a kind of physicality I've always avoided. Wish me luck!

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May 26, 2012

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Thanks for the words of encouragement, I'm gonna take some free classes at a few local gyms!

I can live with a few bumps and bruises and I have zero ego. But for me this is like going back to school with all the other bigger stronger guys who chose me to show off on. Going into a public place and surrounding myself with perfect strangers is hard enough, and I'm about to juxtapose that with a kind of physicality I've always avoided. Wish me luck!

No one has had their rear end kicked as many times as someone who trains in a fight sport. More often than not people are pretty humble and helpful to new guys.

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Jun 9, 2007

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like going back to school with all the other bigger stronger guys who chose me to show off on.

If there's a gym you check out with more than one or two of those types, move on. Definitely not all gyms are like that.

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I want to start a martial art for self defense. I'm looking at Krav Maga in the long run, as I hear it's the most effective. However, the studios here are a bit pricey. Our sports university offers some cheap martial arts courses every semester, but they don't do Krav Maga. I'd still like to start there just to get a feel for how I'm going to handle regular martial arts training on top of my current sports schedule. The choice is between Wing Chun, traditional boxing and Muay Thai. Boxing interests me the least, personally. Wing Chun has a mixed reputation and is also supposed to be bad for beginners. I like the sound of Muay Thai, but I'm not sure if the instructors are any good and also the course is early in the morning (eugh).

Right now I'm thinking I'll bite the bullet and do Muay Thai, or alternatively I'll toss the idea and start right up with the Krav Maga studio. Or is Wing Chun any use? I'm mostly just looking for something efficient that will help me out in a worst case scenario (I never get into fights but I'd feel better out at night anyway). I already do strength and endurance training on my own if that's important.

Alternatively if someone wants to recommend me a great martial arts studio in Vienna I'm all ears.

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I want to start a martial art for self defense. I'm looking at Krav Maga in the long run, as I hear it's the most effective. However, the studios here are a bit pricey. Our sports university offers some cheap martial arts courses every semester, but they don't do Krav Maga. I'd still like to start there just to get a feel for how I'm going to handle regular martial arts training on top of my current sports schedule. The choice is between Wing Chun, traditional boxing and Muay Thai. Boxing interests me the least, personally. Wing Chun has a mixed reputation and is also supposed to be bad for beginners. I like the sound of Muay Thai, but I'm not sure if the instructors are any good and also the course is early in the morning (eugh).

Right now I'm thinking I'll bite the bullet and do Muay Thai, or alternatively I'll toss the idea and start right up with the Krav Maga studio. Or is Wing Chun any use? I'm mostly just looking for something efficient that will help me out in a worst case scenario (I never get into fights but I'd feel better out at night anyway). I already do strength and endurance training on my own if that's important.

Alternatively if someone wants to recommend me a great martial arts studio in Vienna I'm all ears.

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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




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Seconded. I'll also add that traditional boxing gyms can be fun and that boxing - if you include the whole set of techniques such as footwork and defensive head movement - is an excellent self-defense discipline, if we're thinking of self-defense as "getting out of a bad situation without serious injury" rather than as "beating someone up."

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KingColliwog
May 15, 2003

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muay thai good, krav and wing bad

This. Krav Maga is mostly bullshit.

Other than what the original post in this thread says about self defense, if you want an effective martial art stick with competitive martial arts like Wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Muay thai, Boxing, kick boxing and similar. Krav Maga might be something you'll enjoy, but from my experience Krav classes are generaly a joke.

Also, it's a military combative kind of things which means that even if it's thought well (it generaly isn't) it will still suck because soldiers don't need to know much about hand to hand combat it's just rudimentary stuff so they don't loose their poo poo on the off chance a situation where they have to fight without their weapon comes up. A lot of people have the misconception that police officers and military somehow have "the best martial arts" while the reality of it is : these guys use weapons/tools, they only need basic knowledge of hand to hand fighting.

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Oct 24, 2010

Worst decision I ever made.


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Or is Wing Chun any use? I'm mostly just looking for something efficient that will help me out in a worst case scenario (I never get into fights but I'd feel better out at night anyway). I already do strength and endurance training on my own if that's important.


I did wing chun for awhile before moving on to BJJ and Kickboxing and I can post a huge data dump on my experience with Chun if the thread wants it, but the TLDR of it is there is no point in learning Wing Chun because what you learn isn't taught in an applicable manner, and the few good things you learn from it are things you would have learned implicitly from rolling BJJ/NoGi/whatever within your first six months.

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Oh, did not expect that about Krav - would you say it's all around a bad system or is this more of a thing where it's too hard to find an instructor that isn't teaching you five finger death punches and spirit bombs?

Mostly asking out of curiosity at this point since it looks like I'll be doing MT based on your responses, or maybe boxing if I can't be arsed to get up at 6.30 to get my poo poo kicked in before work. thanks for the feedback guys

e: ^I'd totally read that dump

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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




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I did wing chun for awhile before moving on to BJJ and Kickboxing and I can post a huge data dump on my experience with Chun if the thread wants it, but the TLDR of it is there is no point in learning Wing Chun because what you learn isn't taught in an applicable manner, and the few good things you learn from it are things you would have learned implicitly from rolling BJJ/NoGi/whatever within your first six months.

My only experience in Wing Chun was doing some super playful no-contact sparring with a guy who basically just moved the goalposts whenever I did anything.

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Oh, did not expect that about Krav - would you say it's all around a bad system or is this more of a thing where it's too hard to find an instructor that isn't teaching you five finger death punches and spirit bombs?

Mostly asking out of curiosity at this point since it looks like I'll be doing MT based on your responses, or maybe boxing if I can't be arsed to get up at 6.30 to get my poo poo kicked in before work. thanks for the feedback guys

e: ^I'd totally read that data dump

It's just true about anything that's supposedly based in military combatives. You can take our word for it, but if you go check out some Krav Maga videos on youtube, you'll see lots of poo poo that's basically instructions for getting shot in the face while trying to defend yourself. Many of those "self-defense" videos are so hilariously bad that I imagine that even a completely untrained person should be able to spot the bullshit if they're being slightly skeptical of what they're watching.

I actually found a used 1970s US Military Combatives handbook in a bookstore, and it basically was just Elvis Presley-style Karate, and the preface said (close paraphrase) "Don't waste your time with Judo - learn Karate and knock the guy out when he's coming in." I wish I had bought the thing but they wanted like $15 for it. Maybe next time I go in I'll offer the owner $5 or something.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



Did you read the OP? Read the OP. Especially the links.

I mean, okay, exactly what is the worst case scenario, and how would knowing martial arts help at all? Looking at the news, the best free teen tube worst worst case scenario right now is an active shooter situation in a rock concert. But then, on the other hand, a local guy died earlier this week when he got kicked by a nazi, fell down and broke his head. I dunno, maybe he could've used some Muay Thai.

The best martial art is the one where you get attacked a lot in unpredictable ways and learn to deal. The krav place might train that way, or they might just go "no attack me like this so I can grab your crotch". The wing chun place probably doesn't train like that. The boxing and Muay Thai places probably do. Go check them out. I'm not gonna judge if you end up doing krav maga just because it feels badass.

But buy the drat shoes.

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Oct 24, 2010

Worst decision I ever made.


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Oh, did not expect that about Krav - would you say it's all around a bad system or is this more of a thing where it's too hard to find an instructor that isn't teaching you five finger death punches and spirit bombs?

The best Krav gym I ever heard of was pretty much Crossfit + really really basic kickboxing+grappling. So even though they weren't learning anything to a proficient level they where still getting in shape at least.

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Oh, did not expect that about Krav - would you say it's all around a bad system or is this more of a thing where it's too hard to find an instructor that isn't teaching you five finger death punches and spirit bombs?

Mostly asking out of curiosity at this point since it looks like I'll be doing MT based on your responses, or maybe boxing if I can't be arsed to get up at 6.30 to get my poo poo kicked in before work. thanks for the feedback guys

e: ^I'd totally read that dump

The only decent krav places are basically "self defense" based mma classes. Just do a real sport martial art instead of jason bourne larping.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



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I did wing chun for awhile before moving on to BJJ and Kickboxing and I can post a huge data dump on my experience with Chun if the thread wants it, but the TLDR of it is there is no point in learning Wing Chun because what you learn isn't taught in an applicable manner, and the few good things you learn from it are things you would have learned implicitly from rolling BJJ/NoGi/whatever within your first six months.
I'm always up for more certified fake martial arts.

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Did you read the OP? Read the OP. Especially the links.

I mean, okay, exactly what is the worst case scenario, and how would knowing martial arts help at all? Looking at the news, the asian college girls sex worst worst case scenario right now is an active shooter situation in a rock concert. But then, on the other hand, a local guy died earlier this week when he got kicked by a nazi, fell down and broke his head. I dunno, maybe he could've used some Muay Thai.

The best martial art is the one where you get attacked a lot in unpredictable ways and learn to deal. The krav place might train that way, or they might just go "no attack me like this so I can grab your crotch". The wing chun place probably doesn't train like that. The boxing and Muay Thai places probably do. Go check them out. I'm not gonna judge if you end up doing krav maga just because it feels badass.

But buy the drat shoes.

I did! But even the Sam Harris blog entry conceded that sometimes violence is unavoidable. It's never happened to me. It probably never will, I'm not the kind of guy who gets into fights. But I'd feel better about myself if I felt like I could handle myself. That's all.

But yeah, I'm totally doing the Muay Thai thing. I was just curious. I like reading about this stuff, so thanks for explaining everyone.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



Oh, speaking of fake martial arts!

Morihei Ueshiba, developer of aikido, was hired to teach Japanese special ops martial arts during the WWII. He eventually got sacked and replaced by a karate dude because the soldiers couldn't make the techniques work.

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Gaz2k21
Sep 1, 2006

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I've been Pro-Wrestling now for nearly a year and Jesus Christ fake-fighting is so much harder to grasp than actual fighting, that being said a new BJJ school has opened up literally walking distance from where I live, I'm pretty excited about this and have been attending sporadically (mostly due to shift work) but I'm soon to change my job to more normal hours and can hopefully attend more frequently......who knows I may even finally get a blue belt.

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I want to start a martial art for self defense. I'm looking at Krav Maga in the long run, as I hear it's the most effective. However, the studios here are a bit pricey. Our sports university offers some cheap martial arts courses every semester, but they don't do Krav Maga. I'd still like to start there just to get a feel for how I'm going to handle regular martial arts training on top of my current sports schedule. The choice is between Wing Chun, traditional boxing and Muay Thai. Boxing interests me the least, personally. Wing Chun has a mixed reputation and is also supposed to be bad for beginners. I like the sound of Muay Thai, but I'm not sure if the instructors are any good and also the course is early in the morning (eugh).

Right now I'm thinking I'll bite the bullet and do Muay Thai, or alternatively I'll toss the idea and start right up with the Krav Maga studio. Or is Wing Chun any use? I'm mostly just looking for something efficient that will help me out in a worst case scenario (I never get into fights but I'd feel better out at night anyway). I already do strength and endurance training on my own if that's important.

Alternatively if someone wants to recommend me a great martial arts studio in Vienna I'm all ears.

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The main problem with Krav Maga is that you can become certified to teach "Krav Maga" by taking a three day seminar, so even if Krav Maga was the second coming of Judo developed by Muhammed Bruce Li I still would never recommend to someone that they join a "Krav Maga" school because you have absolutely no idea what you'll actually be getting.

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I've been Pro-Wrestling now for nearly a year and Jesus Christ fake-fighting is so much harder to grasp than actual fighting, that being said a new BJJ school has opened up literally walking distance from where I live, I'm pretty excited about this and have been attending sporadically (mostly due to shift work) but I'm soon to change my job to more normal hours and can hopefully attend more frequently......who knows I may even finally get a blue belt.

If you do, I would actually be pretty interested to hear how the various ways they teach you to take bumps in wrestling compare to the various Judo/BJJ style breakfalls.

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If you do, I would actually be pretty interested to hear how the various ways they teach you to take bumps in wrestling compare to the various Judo/BJJ style breakfalls.

As a pretty green amateur in both, they seemed similar to me. Pro wrestling has more of a focus on 'make lots of noise by slapping the floor' but that works out because in Judo I've been told to land with my arm flat anyway.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



How many pro wrestling moves have you tried to import into your BJJ game?

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If you do, I would actually be pretty interested to hear how the various ways they teach you to take bumps in wrestling compare to the various Judo/BJJ style breakfalls.

I haven't done pro wrestling specifically, but I first learned to break fall in theatre (i.e. "stage combat") and now I'm a BJJ guy who has trained with some Judokas over the years. I also used to watch a lot of pro wrestling and had some friends who trained in it.

The main difference I see is that Judo teaches to fall on one side which minimizes the chance of the head hitting the ground, and a lot of its techniques to help protect your partner involve pulling up on an arm to orient the falling person to that sideways angle (any Judikas feel free to correct me if that's wrong, most of my Judo info comes from only a few people). BJJ, stage combat, and pro wrestling all teach to fall flat on your back to maximize the surface area taking the hit. The theatrical variations also use open hands to increase the sound it makes.

Teachers of both styles tend to claim that the other style hurts your spine more.

One interesting intersection is Ric Flair. He had lower spine injuries that meant he couldn't do flat bumps anymore, so for his later years in WWE he was the only guy doing Judo style break falls, which weren't as loud but did look like he had just been murdered by a open hand chop to the chest.

I still fall like I'm in theatre, and have been accused several times of overselling a fall to mock people, then I have to explain I used to be a drama nerd and I'm not actually making fun of them.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



The objective of judo is to throw the other guy flat on their back with force. People prefer falling to their side because that only gives the opponent a point instead of an outright win.

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Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Worst decision I ever made.


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I'm always up for more certified fake martial arts.

“Why friends don’t let friends Wing Chun tonight.”
So you’re thinking of doing Wing Chun? Well how about I explain to you the system from the perspective of someone who went through it for a bit. Wing Chun comes from China and no one knows where. Some people say it came from a nun needing to protect herself[unlikely], some say it’s a modern style with no roots in history, some say it’s a bastardization of Snake and Crane styles, and I vaguely remember a Bullshido post explaining that fighters in china knew basic wrestling and kickboxing skills and that Wing Chun was an attempt at filling in Clinch entries and exits and then years and years later you get people thinking Wing Chun is a complete fighting system and then selling it. No one really knows 100% certain.

So what will you expect out of your Wing Chun Journey? Well assuming your gym uses a nine color belt ranking system, you will spend your first six levels learning the first two forms of Wing Chun, Siu Nim Tao and Chum Qiu, as well as the dummy forms, the first form pretty much teaches you stance and hand positions, the second form teaches movement with the hand positions and adds shin/knee kicking, and the dummy form teaches you to hit and move, as well as to impress your friends with how fast you can hit a stationary target. Your last three belts will be focused on the last hand form, Biu Gee, and the two weapon forms, The Dragon Pole, a nine foot heavy as poo poo piece of wood, and dual butterfly swords. The Biu Gee form ties all you’ve learned together into kicking the rear end of the invisible man with a flurry of eye gouging, elbows, and stomps to the knee. The Dragon Pole gives you super awesome muscles and makes you hate life, and is useless as nobody carries around a large stick any more to battle bandits, and the Butterfly swords are cool looking, but again worthless because I don’t think there are many LEO’s who would tolerate someone walking around with 12 inch knives and is probably illegal to carry without a permit if not outright banned in most states.

So what will your training actually look like? Well 40% will be practicing and refining your form, because everything has to be just so, or else its wrong. Another 50% of your training will be doing set piece hand drills with a partner, such as your partner throws a punch so you turn and intercept it with a Tan Sao, while simultaneously grabbing the wrist with your opposite hand to restrain it, while you chop them in the throat with a knife hand. Your last 10% will be doing Chi Sao otherwise known as Sticky Hands I will explain this later on as it requires explaining a bit of Wing Chun theory.

So to explain Wing Chun as a way to fight you have to look at how fighting actually takes place. You have fix ranges in no-holds barred fighting. You have from farthest to closest, weapon range, kicking range, punching range, clinching range, and wrestling range. All of these ranges are self-explanatory, except the clinch which for people who don’t know is the range in which you are both standing and hugging each other looking to trip, throw, knee, elbow, or punch your opponent. Wing Chun looks to create a sixth range which is called trapping range, trapping range exists in a very nebulous range between punching and clinching range, where if all goes well you basically are able to hit your opponent repeatedly while they are off balance and out of position. For more on what this looks like, watch Master Wong, who makes me laugh and has a really good presentation.

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So to practice trapping you do Chi sao, which looks like this more or less like

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There are many problems with this as a practice method a small list includes, generally it turns into a game of fast tag instead of effective hits and traps, generally not allowed to break away into kick boxing range or into just a straight take down, and finally you start in trapping range so you never get practice getting to that range and set up in the first place. All and all the Chi Sao would be a good training tool of learning how to do trapping if it was accompanied with a large amount of free sparring, but most Wing Chun places to my knowledge have very little to no free sparring.

All of the above is assuming that trapping in an actual fight can work, and to my knowledge it doesn't.

I can continue this series with stuff like “Things that where useful to me from Wing”, “Bad fighting/self-defense advice I’ve been given from Wing Chun students/instructors” “Wing Chun Theory for Dummies.” and pretty much anything else if anyone is interested

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