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Gaz2k21
Sep 1, 2006

MEGALA---WHO??!!??

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How many pro wrestling moves have you tried to import into your BJJ game?

I admit I've tried to apply a walls of Jericho or a sharpshooter during rolling, after seeing the CM punk documentary I'm tempted to try a stunner.

As for bumps and the comparison to breakfalls, it's pretty similar but in wrestling you sell it more usually by getting a bit of air between you and the ground before landing etc.

Wrestling is fun as hell, I take to performing techniques very well it's the match structure and psychology I find difficult.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



That's cool stuff. I'd like "Wing Chun Theory for Dummies" next, please.

I've been reading a lot of properly academic martial arts studies stuff lately and the most interesting blog on the subject I know, sex with small boys, is run by a wing chun guy. He's written phone sex with pictures, too. I think his conclusion is "well, ultimately ". An interesting thing I learned from the blog is that wing chun was pretty unknown before Ip Man brought it to Hong Kong, where it really took off.

It's kinda interesting how kyokushin karate matches actually do happen at that weird halfway point between clinching and proper boxing, but that's probably because they prohibit both clinching and punching the head.

Incidentally, Russians actually have wing chun competitions. They, well, yeah:
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I can continue this series with stuff like “Things that where useful to me from Wing”, “Bad fighting/self-defense advice I’ve been given from Wing Chun students/instructors” “Wing Chun Theory for Dummies.” and pretty much anything else if anyone is interested

Please do.

My only experience with Wing Chun was several months ago, a girl and a man enrolled in our gym (boxing, kick, muay, mma), they were supposedly good at it but wanted to learn a bit from other styles, so they tried their hand at boxing and kickboxing. Most of the things they explained sounded pretty cool, but I've never seen them do anything useful in free sparring though.

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Omglosser
Sep 2, 2007



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Oh, speaking of fake martial arts!

Morihei Ueshiba, developer of aikido, was hired to teach Japanese special ops martial arts during the WWII. He eventually got sacked and replaced by a karate dude because the soldiers couldn't make the techniques work.

This is loving awesome. Do you have a link or something that could verify this? I keep getting "aikido works cuz o sensei trained military guys" type stuff on google searches.



With all this Wing Chun talk, here's a video I found that accurately depicts the level of real-life combat effectiveness you'll get from training it

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On a serious note, I've always wanted to (if I had the loving time/money) just go and learn all kinds of the bullshit martial arts like aikido etc etc, just to see if there's anything effective that could be found in them. Whether it be a technique, philosophy, footwork, takedown/clinch entry, you know, something. I think a big problem with these kinds of dojos is the teachers have a self-obligation to try and 'sell' their art to people to get and keep students, so they have to hole down and say "NO NO NO IT WORKS YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND" when faced with scrutiny.(in my bjj class the teacher's attitude towards new people is "if they like it they'll stay") In that sense I feel like anything that might be effective would be thrown to the wayside or overlooked/underutilized because the training/teaching focus is more on the belt curriculum and tradition and sales points, rather than aliveness and the evolution of finding effective techniques. It would be cool to take techniques and whatever else from these bullshido arts and take them OUT of their element and apply them elsewhere, just for fun. Just to see if something new and effective could be born from something lame because someone took the time to apply aliveness to it.

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Jun 6, 2014




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This is loving awesome. Do you have a link or something that could verify this? I keep getting "aikido works cuz o sensei trained military guys" type stuff on google searches.



With all this Wing Chun talk, here's a video I found that accurately depicts the level of real-life combat effectiveness you'll get from training it

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On a serious note, I've always wanted to (if I had the loving time/money) just go and learn all kinds of the bullshit martial arts like aikido etc etc, just to see if there's anything effective that could be found in them. Whether it be a technique, philosophy, footwork, takedown/clinch entry, you know, something. I think a big problem with these kinds of dojos is the teachers have a self-obligation to try and 'sell' their art to people to get and keep students, so they have to hole down and say "NO NO NO IT WORKS YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND" when faced with scrutiny.(in my bjj class the teacher's attitude towards new people is "if they like it they'll stay") In that sense I feel like anything that might be effective would be thrown to the wayside or overlooked/underutilized because the training/teaching focus is more on the belt curriculum and tradition and sales points, rather than aliveness and the evolution of finding effective techniques. hottest pussy on earth It would be cool to take techniques and whatever else from these bullshido arts and take them OUT of their element and apply them elsewhere, just for fun. Just to see if something new and effective could be born from something lame because someone took the time to apply aliveness to it.

Jack Slack gets some poo poo on these boards, but he has a number of articles where he does exactly this - identifying bullshido techniques or similar things working in high-level MMA bouts. The two I can remember are that he did a Wing Chun analysis of one of the Lawler-Hendricks fights (which were both significantly trapping-range fights), and he found a bunch of goofy Karate poo poo from goofy katas that Machida pulled off in real fights with slight modifications..

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



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This is loving awesome. Do you have a link or something that could verify this? I keep getting "aikido works cuz o sensei trained military guys" type stuff on google searches.
Ellis Amdur mentions it in his book Dueling With O-Sensei, and I saw an old interview with the karate guy who replaced him recently, but I can't find it right now. I very much recommend the book, by the way.

Edit: Oh hey, I sex videos alyssa milano

quote:

My method of training was a simple one. For punching (tsuki) I demanded that they strike to the enemy's face, and for kicking, that they attack the kintekki [tl note: balls].

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ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



I'm by no means an Aikido fan, but I think you are being a bit unfair:

quote:

Uyeshiba himself was good but when the students tried to apply the techniques they couldn't make them work under real conditions. In a way, Aikido had too much "technique" for the limited one year of training.

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Oct 10, 2007
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Jack Slack gets some poo poo on these boards, but he has a number of articles where he does exactly this - identifying bullshido techniques or similar things working in high-level MMA bouts. The two I can remember are that he did a Wing Chun analysis of one of the Lawler-Hendricks fights (which were both significantly trapping-range fights), and he found a bunch of goofy Karate poo poo from goofy katas that Machida pulled off in real fights with slight modifications..

What's wrong with the guy? I don't know much high level striking and fighting stuff so I always found him entertaining but I might be missing something.

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I'm by no means an Aikido fan, but I think you are being a bit unfair:

Nah.

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manyak
Jan 26, 2006


Re: krav maga talk i always think its funny when otherwise skeptical minded people think a Marine or whatever, who trains combatives 3 hours a week and has never been in a real fistfight, could easily beat up a pro fighter who spends their entire life training to fight. Especially when you train with an Army/police combatives instructor and you realize theyre just some random blue belt

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02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



3 hours a week? I thought most soldiers got a two week course during basic training and that's all.

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There are plenty of ex- and active duty military at the places I train and tbh the only thing that distinguishes them from civilians of their belt level is the haircuts, generally

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3 hours a week? I thought most soldiers got a two week course during basic training and that's all.

I dont really know i was just giving a generous estimate, but i just looked it up and it seems like you can get a black belt in Marine combatives in like 3-4 months or so worth of regular training

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02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



I think when people who are bad at fighting say "Krav Maga is effective, because the IDF use it!" they've usually trained more Krav than anybody in the IDF

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



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I'm by no means an Aikido fan, but I think you are being a bit unfair:
Eh, maybe I'm cherrypicking a bit. I'm an aikido fan though so it's okay.

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Omglosser
Sep 2, 2007



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Jack Slack gets some poo poo on these boards, but he has a number of articles where he does exactly this - identifying bullshido techniques or similar things working in high-level MMA bouts. The two I can remember are that he did a Wing Chun analysis of one of the Lawler-Hendricks fights (which were both significantly trapping-range fights), and he found a bunch of goofy Karate poo poo from goofy katas that Machida pulled off in real fights with slight modifications..

Interesting...I just read one of his articles, he seems level headed and pragmatic in his analyses. Thanks!


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Ellis Amdur mentions it in his book Dueling With O-Sensei, and I saw an old interview with the karate guy who replaced him recently, but I can't find it right now. I very much recommend the book, by the way.

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Thank you!! I've been poking at the idea of writing a book about Ueshiba/Aikido with a very critical tone, this will definitely help. I was inspired by his biography A Life in Aikido. There was a passage where his son wrote about Osensei becoming enraged at a young American boy for throwing a rock and chasing him down the street before falling in a puddle or something. His son was afraid that he would've killed the boy had he caught him. I read this and was like WTF how can anyone read this and still see Ueshiba as some kind of peaceful, patient, spiritually enlightened master? Sounds like a petty, arrogant, grumpy old fart to me.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



Dueling with O-Sensei is pretty much that already, I think you might find it interesting.

Speaking of mining traditional martial arts for good stuff, is anyone here familiar with judo's kata side? I've understood there's a lot of stuff like wrist locks and whatnot collected in there.

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ICHIBAHN
Feb 21, 2007


Re bjj, is there anything I can do to stop the amount of tiny cuts I'm sustaining? We train on quite rough mats, puzzle mats I think they're called, and I often find myself with half-inch cuts on my feet and hands, occassionally my head. Is this just something I have to get used to? Been regularly training for over 2 years, so it's not a case of getting used to the mats. Cheers.

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Surprise T Rex
Apr 9, 2008


Just had another Judo session last night, and I'm still enjoying it.

I checked out two clubs last week, and settled on the first one entirely based on atmosphere and how the place felt. I'm a bit concerned that the place I've decided on is a bit less 'teachy' than the other one, though. Is it normal to occasionally have a lesson where the first hour or so is basically just a workout, and there's half an hour of randori/newaza at the end? I sort of felt like I wasn't really learning anything about actual Judo rules or technique yesterday except for when one or two people I was paired against in randori decided to go out of their way to show me something.

Shame that the atmosphere at the more explanation-focused club sucked - the place was kind of run-down, tiny, and tucked away at the back of a community center with a weekly teen club night going on in the next room.

All of that stuff aside, the randori and newaza was fun yesterday. I got hit with a throw I don't know the name of, but is essentially . That was an experience.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



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Re bjj, is there anything I can do to stop the amount of tiny cuts I'm sustaining? We train on quite rough mats, puzzle mats I think they're called, and I often find myself with half-inch cuts on my feet and hands, occassionally my head. Is this just something I have to get used to? Been regularly training for over 2 years, so it's not a case of getting used to the mats. Cheers.
Is your skin super dry? You could try changing the soap you're showering with before you train, or using some sort of moisturizing lotion. If you're not a super-gross goon, showering in the morning instead of right before class might also work. If nothing helps, go to a doctor, rubbing open sores on people and more importantly the dirty mats is gross as heck

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ICHIBAHN
Feb 21, 2007


Thanks. It's just small cuts on my fingers I've noticed today, stemming from training last night I reckon, wouldn't dream of training with open cuts or anything. I keep everything covered, finger tape, rash guard, gi, even yoga socks to cover my feet if there's any cuts on them (much to my teammates' amusement). I'm big on hygene too, showering before and after, fresh uniform every class etc. I DO have dry skin though, have done since I was a teenager. I normally use standard shower gell, would you or anyone else be able to recommend anything better? Cheers again.

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Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



I dunno any particular brands, but drugstores should have stuff branded for dry or sensitive skin. Don't spend too much. You could also consider just showering less often – it's okay to be a bit greasy, it keeps your skin healthy. (Not too much, ya goons!)

Edit: Who was it that did an effortpost about soap on the last thread?

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Thanks. It's just small cuts on my fingers I've noticed today, stemming from training last night I reckon, wouldn't dream of training with open cuts or anything. I keep everything covered, finger tape, rash guard, gi, even yoga socks to cover my feet if there's any cuts on them (much to my teammates' amusement). I'm big on hygene too, showering before and after, fresh uniform every class etc. I DO have dry skin though, have done since I was a teenager. I normally use standard shower gell, would you or anyone else be able to recommend anything better? Cheers again.

I get ashy after a shower. You could get a gel for sensitive skin or that has aloe, but the best solution is moisturizer. I was getting cuts at my old judo club and moisturizing my feet and hands before class helped.

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ICHIBAHN
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Interesting...I just read one of his articles, he seems level headed and pragmatic in his analyses. Thanks!

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What's wrong with the guy? I don't know much high level striking and fighting stuff so I always found him entertaining but I might be missing something.

Some posters in the UFC threads characterize him as a fat sherdog poster with a strip-mall karate belt and an overreliance on wikipedia. FWIW I like him too but I haven't read one of his articles for like a year

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Just had another Judo session last night, and I'm still enjoying it.

I checked out two clubs last week, and settled on the first one entirely based on atmosphere and how the place felt. I'm a bit concerned that the place I've decided on is a bit less 'teachy' than the other one, though. Is it normal to occasionally have a lesson where the first hour or so is basically just a workout, and there's half an hour of randori/newaza at the end? I sort of felt like I wasn't really learning anything about actual Judo rules or technique yesterday except for when one or two people I was paired against in randori decided to go out of their way to show me something.

Shame that the atmosphere at the more explanation-focused club sucked - the place was kind of run-down, tiny, and tucked away at the back of a community center with a weekly teen club night going on in the next room.

All of that stuff aside, the randori and newaza was fun yesterday. I got hit with a throw I don't know the name of, but is essentially . That was an experience.

Pretty sure that is Tomoe Nage. I was taught to only use it when you are completely knackered and have nothing else but its just so much fun.

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Pretty sure that is Tomoe Nage. I was taught to only use it when you are completely knackered and have nothing else but its just so much fun.

correct. Note that in the olympics a female athlete hit a tomoe nage into a rolling armbar attack. It's a legit good throw, but you're not going to nail it on anyone good if you don't have some kind of forward posture break going on.

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Thanks. It's just small cuts on my fingers I've noticed today, stemming from training last night I reckon, wouldn't dream of training with open cuts or anything. I keep everything covered, finger tape, rash guard, gi, even yoga socks to cover my feet if there's any cuts on them (much to my teammates' amusement). I'm big on hygene too, showering before and after, fresh uniform every class etc. I DO have dry skin though, have done since I was a teenager. I normally use standard shower gell, would you or anyone else be able to recommend anything better? Cheers again.

Isn't it considered not best practice to shower before rolling, unless necessary? I was under the impression that the skin already has some good bacteria set up as a first line of microbial defense, but showering can mess up that balance for long enough that immediately rolling after can be (marginally more) risky.

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Isn't it considered not best practice to shower before rolling, unless necessary? I was under the impression that the skin already has some good bacteria set up as a first line of microbial defense, but showering can mess up that balance for long enough that immediately rolling after can be (marginally more) risky.

Correct, more or less. You want to hit the mat with the most naturally healthy skin possible, because that's more disease-resistant. Like, if you're actually dirty, wash that poo poo off, but if it's just a normal day's sweat in a non-gross job, it's probably better to just rinse your face and put on fresh deodorant and put on fresh rolling clothes. To shower or shave or exfoliate or anything right before rolling can increase the risk of getting bad poo poo into your skin.

But use your judgment. I have a training partner who works in a grain warehouse. She needs a shower after work or else she's coming to practice covered in barley and wheat dust, which is an irritant for everyone and an allergen for some. Don't roll covered in barley and wheat dust.

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Follow-up to yesterday: I've enrolled in a boxing class. The Muay Thai class sounds nice too but it's early in the morning and my inline skating course is on the same day late in the evening. Muay Thai sounds pretty intense so I think that would be too much. I'd also have to lift weights the morning after


e: Sorry – what I wanted to know was, is strength training or cardio on the same day as a Muay Thai or boxing class a good idea, or is it too much? I have never done martial arts so I don't know how intense it usually gets.

(I don't know why I ended up posting what I did)

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Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


Been looking at nearby places where I'm at. Looking at either a bjj place or a 'modern arnis' place which is apparently Filipino stick fighting which was fun as hell when I did it long ago. Anybody hear anything about it?

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Follow-up to yesterday: I've enrolled in a boxing class. The Muay Thai class sounds nice too but it's early in the morning and my inline skating course is on the same day late in the evening. Muay Thai sounds pretty intense so I think that would be too much. I'd also have to lift weights the morning after

Keep giving us updates on what's happening in the class, and how you feel about it!

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Incidentally, Russians actually have wing chun competitions. They, well, yeah:
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Is this how it's supposed to look? I admit that I don't know anything about martial arts, but it looks a heck of a lot like what used to pass for "sparring days" at the taekwondo place I went to as a kid.

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Been looking at nearby places where I'm at. Looking at either a bjj place or a 'modern arnis' place which is apparently Filipino stick fighting which was fun as hell when I did it long ago. Anybody hear anything about it?

We had a weapons seminar kinda just for a lark at my old bjj school. It was really basic escrima or really similar.

We even did the sharpie knife with old clothes drill to learn how murderous that poo poo is when you're really going for each other.

From what I understand it's hard to find schools especially with good training practices.

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Apr 12, 2007

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The one cool thing I remember from my one FMA style knife/stick fighting lesson is to aim to cut under the arm pit of the dominant hand so that you simultaneously disable your opponent and cause a pretty grave wound. The associated drill we did was actually a whole lot like Wing Chun drills. Anyway I think that and much more importantly "never get in a knife fight" is enough knife fighting knowledge for one lifetime.

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Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


Yeah definatly if I'm doing martial arts it's for fun and getting fit, not use.

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Nov 22, 2004

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The one cool thing I remember from my one FMA style knife/stick fighting lesson is to aim to cut under the arm pit of the dominant hand so that you simultaneously disable your opponent and cause a pretty grave wound. The associated drill we did was actually a whole lot like Wing Chun drills. Anyway I think that and much more importantly "never get in a knife fight" is enough knife fighting knowledge for one lifetime.

Lol I remember that too, jesus. Like guys were trying to arm drag one side and stab the other side arm pit.

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Jack Slack gets some poo poo on these boards, but he has a number of articles where he does exactly this - identifying bullshido techniques or similar things working in high-level MMA bouts. The two I can remember are that he did a Wing Chun analysis of one of the Lawler-Hendricks fights (which were both significantly trapping-range fights), and he found a bunch of goofy Karate poo poo from goofy katas that Machida pulled off in real fights with slight modifications..

I believe these are the two articles you mentioned:

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Yeah definatly if I'm doing martial arts it's for fun and getting fit, not use.

Do your choices have a website you can share? Ask yourself if you want to hug or use weapons. I get a way better workout in grappling than when I did kali escrima. As for fun - grappling is fun but plenty of grind and be prepared to suck before it gets better. While for arnis the drilling/sparring with rubber knives and sticks is really fun.

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