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Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

FR8 4 LYFE

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Here’s a question for you ATC types: why don’t we do more RTA here in the states? I get so many speed changes going into places like LA or ATL it seems like every controller on the arrival wants you to speed up or slow down. Sometimes by up to 50 knots. What gives and why not just issue a clearance to cross a fix at a certain time to keep separation?

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vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

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Here’s a question for you ATC types: why don’t we do more RTA here in the states? I get so many speed changes going into places like LA or ATL it seems like every controller on the arrival wants you to speed up or slow down. Sometimes by up to 50 knots. What gives and why not just issue a clearance to cross a fix at a certain time to keep separation?

I dunno about you meng, but I'd rather let them figure it out and give me the speed, even if it's multiple times.

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Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?

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I dunno about you meng, but I'd rather let them figure it out and give me the speed, even if it's multiple times.

Yeah man I don’t want to give myself a stress headache. I already worked... well I don’t work this week but you get the point.

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Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

FR8 4 LYFE

Fun Shoe

Luckily for us most fmc and gps manufacturers have built that into their systems. Just enter the waypoint and the time and the airplane will adjust the speed itself bing bong so simple.

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vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

I dunno if you're on the G6 or 787, but I I'd bet a trip's pay that most FMS'es, by count, in the air don't have that.

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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In the radar environment, especially once you get within a couple hundred miles of the destination, you can get planes way more tightly spaced with mileage based separation, which requires more finessing of speed assignments.

Time based metering works on a macro level, but once you get closer in, we gotta get you up each other's butts.

Any time-based restriction is going to require a +/- tolerance that would allow too much space between aircraft.

That doesn't mean you AREN'T getting excessively adjusted. Some controllers are better than others. But at the end of the day almost everyone at the primary airport lands between 2.5 and 3nm in trail of the last arrival and it's about as tight as it can get before people stop vacating the runway in time for the next guy.

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e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

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Luckily for us most fmc and gps manufacturers have built that into their systems. Just enter the waypoint and the time and the airplane will adjust the speed itself bing bong so simple.

I fly the CRJ and the concept of autothrottles makes me sad.



(because I don’t have them)

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Bob A Feet
Aug 10, 2005
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How do they determine an approach speed? I've been going to CHS several times over the past few weeks for practice approaches and one controller, on every downwind and final gives me a "maintain xxx." The crazy thing is, I'm going that speed. She'll adjust it up and down 10 knots every now and then, but its always a maintain an exact speed, never a greater than or less than.

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e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

Skids. Wheelies. Jumps.


All they see is ground speed on the scope.

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vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

Now I'm brainstorming how I'd do it on the Collins 4200 (CRJ), without being near one, and in cruise it wouldn't be too onerous, as you can trial-and-error some speeds in the VNAV Cruise page until the ETA at the assigned fix matches the assignment; and then fly that speed. And come to think of it, that could work for the VNAV Descent page too... but I have no idea if and how that might interact with speeds on fixes in the Legs page.

But for the no FMS guys? Lol hope you brought your E6B

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a patagonian cavy
Jan 12, 2009


You’re overthinking it. As long as you have ETA at your next fix, you adjust your speed until the ETA is the same amount in the future as your “cross this fix at XX:YY” restriction.

You could even do it for future fixes if you have the FPL tab open on your PFD.

Disclaimer- only glass panel stuff I’ve flown is G1000.

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e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

Skids. Wheelies. Jumps.


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Now I'm brainstorming how I'd do it on the Collins 4200 (CRJ), without being near one, and in cruise it wouldn't be too onerous, as you can trial-and-error some speeds in the VNAV Cruise page until the ETA at the assigned fix matches the assignment; and then fly that speed. And come to think of it, that could work for the VNAV Descent page too... but I have no idea if and how that might interact with speeds on fixes in the Legs page.

But for the no FMS guys? Lol hope you brought your E6B

There’s a page that will tell you the speed to fly to hit a fix at a given time. I’m not familiar with it though because I literally never use it. The only time I’ve ever seen it used is when captains want to fly slow to hit A:0 exactly, because they’re worried about making every last second of pay.

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vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

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The only time I’ve ever seen it used is when captains want to fly slow to hit A:0 exactly, because they’re worried about making every last second of pay.

Skywest?

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e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

Skids. Wheelies. Jumps.



You know it. Apparently increasing risk of a low speed event is worth that extra 2-3 mins a leg instead of just taxiing slower.

e: nm

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vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

From your reputation around here, the flying slow vs. taxiing slow is a false dichotomy

Anyway, I think I know the page your referring to, and (straining my memory) it's one of the Perf > Fuel subpages. And if it's what I'm thinking of, it doesn't run a prediction on the flight plan, but only a straight line to a fix. So it would still work for a fix that's roughly straight ahead, and you can use it to try to nail arrival time by using it to get you to some specified point in the arrival/approach environment at a specified early time. So it still sounds like a nifty tool, I'll have to play with it next time.

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two_beer_bishes
Jun 27, 2004


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The only time I’ve ever seen it used is when captains want to fly slow to hit A:0 exactly, because they’re worried about making every last second of pay.

When I worked at Pinnacle there was a captain who would fly the 200 no faster than .70 to get max block time.

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e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

Skids. Wheelies. Jumps.


Yeah it’s under the fuel page. Smart something I think it’s called.

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Nov 20, 2011

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When I worked at Pinnacle there was a captain who would fly the 200 no faster than .70 to get max block time.
Our standard profile on the 200 is 250 in the climb to .70 in cruise

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Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

FR8 4 LYFE

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In the radar environment, especially once you get within a couple hundred miles of the destination, you can get planes way more tightly spaced with mileage based separation, which requires more finessing of speed assignments.

Time based metering works on a macro level, but once you get closer in, we gotta get you up each other's butts.

Any time-based restriction is going to require a +/- tolerance that would allow too much space between aircraft.

That doesn't mean you AREN'T getting excessively adjusted. Some controllers are better than others. But at the end of the day almost everyone at the primary airport lands between 2.5 and 3nm in trail of the last arrival and it's about as tight as it can get before people stop vacating the runway in time for the next guy.

That’s really interesting thanks. What is the time tolerance anyway?

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KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012



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I fly the CRJ and the concept of autothrottles makes me sad.



(because I don’t have them)

Other than not having to manage small speed changes during cruise you're not missing much. At least on the 175 they suck at anything that requires more than a few knots of airspeed change and have a tendency to get themselves into a self induced speed oscillation on final if there's more than a 5 knot gust factor. It is nice to not have to micromanage them during cruise every time someone walks to the back to take a leak though.

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The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

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That’s really interesting thanks. What is the time tolerance anyway?


No clue honestly. But variances of even 30 seconds could cause several miles of difference in achieved separation. When you're getting reasonably close and trying to get exactly 10 or exactly 5 miles between arrivals with speeds assigned it just makes more sense to manage the airspeed assignments instead of issuing times.

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Desi
Jul 5, 2007
This.
Changes.
EVERYTHING.


Funny we're having this discussion about time-over-fixes, I just saw a memo our company put out about YYZ Approach implementing such a procedure for the early morning arrivals before the lifting of the 07:30LT arrival curfew. Early morning arrivals will be assigned a time to cross over one of the "bedpost" fixes on the various STARs that is to be followed +/- 2min. If you are early, you hold; late, you rock on through at max forward speed. Apparently we'll be getting the times through our company either printed on the OFP or via ACARS.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


Vectors to achieve, speeds to maintain. It’s also worth noting that assigning speeds acts as a kind of mental tool for a lot of controllers, since after assigning a speed, we can assume that you’re maintaining it, allowing us to focus on watching other things.

Overtakes are one of the easiest traffic situations to overlook.

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Rickety Cricket
Jan 6, 2011

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Funny we're having this discussion about time-over-fixes, I just saw a memo our company put out about YYZ Approach implementing such a procedure for the early morning arrivals before the lifting of the 07:30LT arrival curfew. Early morning arrivals will be assigned a time to cross over one of the "bedpost" fixes on the various STARs that is to be followed +/- 2min. If you are early, you hold; late, you rock on through at max forward speed. Apparently we'll be getting the times through our company either printed on the OFP or via ACARS.

Pass

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AWSEFT
Apr 28, 2006



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Funny we're having this discussion about time-over-fixes, I just saw a memo our company put out about YYZ Approach implementing such a procedure for the early morning arrivals before the lifting of the 07:30LT arrival curfew. Early morning arrivals will be assigned a time to cross over one of the "bedpost" fixes on the various STARs that is to be followed +/- 2min. If you are early, you hold; late, you rock on through at max forward speed. Apparently we'll be getting the times through our company either printed on the OFP or via ACARS.

You can set the Airbus to try to cross a fix at a specific time and it'll adjust speed to try. Only problem is it'll ignore any other speed limits on a STAR to do it.

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Reztes
Jun 20, 2003


And on the seventh measure, God rested.


Soiled Meat

Just wanted to pop in to say that GA is pretty loving great. Some friends and I had a fly-in camping trip this weekend as a flight of three planes. We were originally going to Kern Valley in the Sierra Nevada foothills, but with wildfires still burning the valley was filled with smoke, and visibility approaching the airport was terrible. We diverted nearby, ate at the cafe and decided on a change of destination 100 miles west to Oceano, a tiny little unattended airport on the beach with a small campground right on the field. It was a pretty amazing trip, and how great to be able to have the freedom to swing halfway across the state like that.

I also made the trip with my CFI buddy in an Arrow and we used the opportunity to knock out part of my complex training for CPL. 75 hours to go till I can... well probably start working on my CFI too as the prospects for any other 250 hour fresh CPL job still seem pretty slim.


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Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?

Those pics make me want to buy a plane.

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Sep 18, 2005

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Those pics make me want to have a friend buy a plane.



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dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Everyone needs a boat friend and a plane friend

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EvilMerlin
Apr 10, 2018



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Everyone needs a boat friend and a plane friend

Or just get a seaplane...

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PT6A
Jan 5, 2006



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Or just get a seaplane...

Nah, seaplanes are for getting somewhere. Boats are for going somewhere slowly and then drinking and relaxing.

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EvilMerlin
Apr 10, 2018



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Nah, seaplanes are for getting somewhere. Boats are for going somewhere slowly and then drinking and relaxing.

I find seaplanes awesomely relaxing...

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fordan
Mar 9, 2009

Clue: Zero


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Nah, seaplanes are for getting somewhere. Boats are for going somewhere slowly and then drinking and relaxing.

Seaplanes are for having an awesome time while getting to skip a biennial flight review because it's a new rating with a checkride.

(And then realizing that no one will rent a seaplane without their CFI on board)

And as for getting someplace; I don't think I went above 500 ft AGL (or MSL; it was Florida) or faster than 60mph in the Cub on floats I did my rating on. I did a demo ride on a Revo weight-shift trike that same weekend where I went both significantly faster and higher.

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EvilMerlin
Apr 10, 2018



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I also made the trip with my CFI buddy in an Arrow and we used the opportunity to knock out part of my complex training for CPL. 75 hours to go till I can... well probably start working on my CFI too as the prospects for any other 250 hour fresh CPL job still seem pretty slim.

Are freelance instructors in the US allowed to instruct in their own planes?

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CBJamo
Jul 15, 2012


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Are freelance instructors in the US allowed to instruct in their own planes?

FAA wise yes, not sure what the deal would be with insurance.

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PT6A
Jan 5, 2006



That's a considerable difference. Here, you'd have to start an official Flight Training Unit. It can be just one plane and one instructor, but by god you'll go through the bureaucracy!

We can instruct on students' own planes, but it has to be their plane or a plane owned by someone at arm's length from the instructor, according to the official language. From what I've heard from other instructors who've done this, it's frightening because most people are a bit lax when it comes to maintenance.

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CBJamo
Jul 15, 2012


As far as I'm aware, the only reg along those lines in the US is fine art nude photographer, the relevant bit is that commercial ops and instruction require an inspection every 100 hours in addition to the annual. Oddly (and stupidly, in my opinion) the 100-hour rule doesn't apply to renting out aircraft. So it doesn't apply if a third party owns the aircraft, since they're simply renting the plane to whoever the PIC is, and then they do whatever. Similarly, if the student owns the plane, then they don't have to do a 100-hour inspection.

Insurance wise, I'm sure it's crazy expensive for an individual instructor. Down here, lots of things are legal, but a real bad idea, and insurance premiums will reflect that. For example, if you want to fly an acrobat and to loops an poo poo as a wet-ink PPL, you legally can. But the insurance will be so expensive that you might as well just put aside enough cash to pay for a new plane and funeral expenses on your own, it'll probably be cheaper.

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