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21 Muns
Dec 10, 2016


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It would be rad as hell if the sequel to Worm followed a group of actual fledgling heroes instead of doing some road to hell stuff

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to super-hell is paved with bad intentions. The road to intentions is paved with, um, sulfur I guess? Please just pave your roads with pavement. All roads lead to Rome, which implies that Rome is hell, because some people decided to pave their roads with intentions. poo poo, we can't use roads anymore.

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Oct 12, 2007

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Good news there aren't a lot of roads anymore because Scion blew most of them up

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TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



Grimey Drawer

These are really hard to follow for me without knowing who's typing. When does the proper story start?

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These are really hard to follow for me without knowing who's typing. When does the proper story start?

He said five to ten segments and this was the fourth, so sometime between now and the middle of November probably

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Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Nine segments I think.

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I know the post on his blog said 5-10 but what that actually means is up in the air

Either way, another week or two isn't that long to wait considering it's been what like four years since worm ended?

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Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Not really up in the air. He planned for ten, but ended up writing one on a day he aimed to write two.

So nine, unless stuff happens again.

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Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003


Fallen Rib

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It would be rad as hell if the sequel to Worm followed a group of actual fledgling heroes instead of doing some road to hell stuff

i wouldn't mind following some more established characters, with more of the mystery about the protagonists themselves.

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

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I think I'll come back to these once Worm 2 has taken off in full. Chatlogs about unknown characters just isn't grabbing me.

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Megazver
Jan 13, 2006


New Mother of Learning's out.

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Oct 12, 2007

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Worm reread update: I just got through the S9 recruitment interludes and I had forgotten how absolutely hosed up the Panacea one was

Also, similarly, that Regents existed at all and what it consisted of because hoooooly poo poo

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Plorkyeran
Mar 21, 2007

Plorky Pig, let's get that Maria+Holic typesetting done yeah? You're starting to develop the requtation of lazy and slow, so ammend that for your own sake


WB said that the story proper won't assume any knowledge of the stuff being covered in this intermission, so if you don't enjoy the process of trying to puzzle out what's going on you might as well just skip them entirely. They're mostly just something to keep the hardcore fans engaged and occupied during the gap between stories.

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Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005


I'm very curious about what sort of ability the protagonist is going to have in Worm 2. Taylor's ability worked fairly well in terms of giving her a lot of flexibility and potential for growth. It would be difficult to write interesting fights for someone with, say, Glory Girl's power-set. Something with a Thinker angle to it could be interesting; probably my favorite thing about Worm's particular interpretation of super powers is the way so many of them fundamentally change a person's perception of reality in order to be capable of naturally using them (for example Taylor's improved multitasking).

Regardless of who it is, I hope to hell it isn't someone as lovely and boring as Taylor. It would be nice to have a protagonist who is at least entertaining. I'm optimistic on this front, since Sylvester in Twig did a great job of having a morally ambiguous character in depressing circumstances who was still really fun to read about.

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Blasphemeral
Jul 26, 2012

Three mongrel men in exchange for a party member? I found that one in the Faustian Bargain Bin.

Oh, man, I just got word of Worm 2 and I'm psyched!

Can people catch me up a little? Has Wildbow (John C. McCrae) made any mention of how his plans to edit/revise/publsh Worm are coming along? I really want to buy that drat series. I'd like to hold off on a re-read until it's revised, but if that's still a pipedream, I'll maybe give it a shot in its current form.


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I'm very curious about what sort of ability the protagonist is going to have in Worm 2. Taylor's ability worked fairly well in terms of giving her a lot of flexibility and potential for growth. It would be difficult to write interesting fights for someone with, say, Glory Girl's power-set. Something with a Thinker angle to it could be interesting; probably my favorite thing about Worm's particular interpretation of super powers is the way so many of them fundamentally change a person's perception of reality in order to be capable of naturally using them (for example Taylor's improved multitasking).

I'm hoping for either a tinker, or else some free sex video thumbs really unusual power; Wildbow is good at coming up with those.


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Regardless of who it is, I hope to hell it isn't someone as lovely and boring as Taylor. It would be nice to have a protagonist who is at least entertaining. I'm optimistic on this front, since Sylvester in Twig did a great job of having a morally ambiguous character in depressing circumstances who was still really fun to read about.

There's a danger in making an exceptionally "entertaining" character. A PoV character needs to be someone the readership at large can usually associate with themselves in some way. If they're too off-the-wall, you'll have trouble hooking your readers.

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Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


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I'm very curious about what sort of ability the protagonist is going to have in Worm 2. Taylor's ability worked fairly well in terms of giving her a lot of flexibility and potential for growth. It would be difficult to write interesting fights for someone with, say, Glory Girl's power-set. Something with a Thinker angle to it could be interesting; probably my favorite thing about Worm's particular interpretation of super powers is the way so many of them fundamentally change a person's perception of reality in order to be capable of naturally using them (for example Taylor's improved multitasking).

Regardless of who it is, I hope to hell it isn't someone as lovely and boring as Taylor. It would be nice to have a protagonist who is at least entertaining. I'm optimistic on this front, since Sylvester in Twig did a great job of having a morally ambiguous character in depressing circumstances who was still really fun to read about.

I liked Taylor, but I liked Sy even better. Having said that, one problem with Sy as an action-adventure protagonist is that he needs to rely a fair amount on a particular form of plot armor, where his enemies hear him out instead of just trying to kill him first. (At least Tattletale's enemies eventually realized that you should just attack her instead of letting her spin half-truths.) Someone with a pure Thinker power would just set up the same problem again.

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There's a danger in making an exceptionally "entertaining" character. A PoV character needs to be someone the readership at large can usually associate with themselves in some way. If they're too off-the-wall, you'll have trouble hooking your readers.

True. There's a reason people like Rachel, Accord, Contessa, Helen, Ashton, and the Duke of Francis are saved for occasional interlude chapters instead of being the main PoV.

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The Shortest Path
Jun 21, 2012

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I would like the entirety of Worm 2 to be written from Bruce's PoV. He's a good boy!

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Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Double (kinda) update tonight:
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Wildbow posted:

Note: Second chapter also went up today. I split it into two for coherence, and because neither chapter was going to be long enough to warrant going up standalone. Click ‘next chapter’ to read it. This message will be deleted around the time P.7 goes up. Just three more to go.

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TheRagamuffin
Aug 31, 2008

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RIP mlekk. We barely knew ye.

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Virigoth
Apr 28, 2009

Give me the axe.
We need more guts.


I was really upset by the fact that I couldn't click on the map to see The City.

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Pretty cool of Armsmaster to show up in Thor 3, IMO.

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Nov 13, 2005


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There's a danger in making an exceptionally "entertaining" character. A PoV character needs to be someone the readership at large can usually associate with themselves in some way. If they're too off-the-wall, you'll have trouble hooking your readers.

My issue with Taylor wasn't so much that she was uninteresting, but more that I flat-out disliked her and felt like the story itself didn't appropriately deal with her personality flaws.

Sy works well because he has more of a personality and I felt like the narrative did a better job of addressing and showing the consequences of his flaws.

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Wittgen
Oct 13, 2012

We have decided to decline your offer of a butt kicking.


Taylor rules.

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My issue with Taylor wasn't so much that she was uninteresting, but more that I flat-out disliked her and felt like the story itself didn't appropriately deal with her personality flaws.

Sy works well because he has more of a personality and I felt like the narrative did a better job of addressing and showing the consequences of his flaws.

agreed.

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Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005


It's not so much that Taylor is a bad character, but more that she's not the kind of person I want to spend time with for thousands of pages. I feel like the only sort of person who would genuinely like her is someone who fully bought into her "why is everyone restricting me~" control freak tendencies (which, to be fair, I think Wildbow intended as a flaw, though a bunch of readers totally bought into the idea of Taylor being some sort of audience self-insert who's more competent than everyone else).

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Wittgen
Oct 13, 2012

We have decided to decline your offer of a butt kicking.


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It's not so much that Taylor is a bad character, but more that she's not the kind of person I want to spend time with for thousands of pages. I feel like the only sort of person who would genuinely like her is someone who fully bought into her "why is everyone restricting me~" control freak tendencies (which, to be fair, I think Wildbow intended as a flaw, though a bunch of readers totally bought into the idea of Taylor being some sort of audience self-insert who's more competent than everyone else).

It's extreme to dislike a character so much you bring it up in every post. It's almost silly to dislike a character so much you feel everyone who disagrees with you has completely misread her central flaw as a positive.

I like Taylor because she's pretty much the best Batman ever. (Under-powered hero that is a major player because of intelligence and tenacity. Defined by a very relatable tragedy, but let that tragedy push them to an unrelatable level of obsessive goal focus. Reliance on tools, strategy, and using the environment in battle.) Batman's a fun character to root for (or stop rooting for when they go to far), and having Batman be lower middle class plain Jane highschooler and bug creep is an interesting twist.

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Unless there's some typos going on, I think that account was banned for impersonating mlekk.

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Unless there's some typos going on, I think that account was banned for impersonating mlekk.

Wildbow has fixed them and also confirmed that he did it because he didn't mean to create a memetic cult before the story even started

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Virigoth
Apr 28, 2009

Give me the axe.
We need more guts.


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Wildbow has fixed them and also confirmed that he did it because he didn't mean to create a memetic cult before the story even started

Now mlekk will never die.

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Aug 31, 2008

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Yeah sorry Wildbow, too late to try and cram that genie back in the bottle.

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Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.



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Wildbow has fixed them and also confirmed that he did it because he didn't mean to create a memetic cult before the story even started

Forget Taylor, Wildbow is the true villain here.

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Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Truly, killing a fan favorite character is unexpected from Wildbow.

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Nov 13, 2005


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I like Taylor because she's pretty much the best Batman ever. (Under-powered hero that is a major player because of intelligence and tenacity. Defined by a very relatable tragedy, but let that tragedy push them to an unrelatable level of obsessive goal focus. Reliance on tools, strategy, and using the environment in battle.) Batman's a fun character to root for (or stop rooting for when they go to far), and having Batman be lower middle class plain Jane highschooler and bug creep is an interesting twist.

She isn't under-powered at all, though. In her first fight ever, before she's even come up with any creative tactics/ideas, she nearly kills Lung, a villain strong enough to fight the entire Brockton Bay Protectorate team. Her power is actually pretty ridiculous and basically an automatic win button against anyone who doesn't have some way to avoid being damaged by bug stings/bites, and that's even before she figures out how to do the more creative stuff. It's probably one of, if not the, most powerful ability in the series against regular humans as well. Taylor is only really an underdog against the strongest characters in the series, like the triumvirate or Siberian or whatever, and characters who have an ability that happens to directly counter hers (like Armsmaster/Dragon's bug-killing technology). And, of course, Wildbow tends to pit her against these sorts of characters, because she'd be able to easily defeat almost anyone else. I've always been really confused by people perceiving Taylor as some sort of underdog with a weak power.

Like I said, though, Taylor isn't a bad character. She's just a pretty unpleasant person, especially later in the series. She hyper-focuses on accomplishing her goals constantly, and while this makes perfect sense given the influence of her shard, it isn't enjoyable to be stuck in the head of someone like that. The way her personality affects the people around her is interesting (and part of why she's actually a pretty good character), but it's not fun being inside her head all the time (at least during the latter 2/3 or so of the story). During the Chicago Wards stuff I remember constantly thinking "jesus christ, what an rear end in a top hat" about her interactions with and thoughts about her teammates. I feel like (or rather I know, due to reader comments) Taylor is appealing as a sort of teenage "everyone's keeping me down, but I have the best ideas and if everyone listened to me things would work out" fantasy.

Honestly though, I really liked Worm despite this, and I'm talking about this mostly due to optimism about Worm 2 basically having all of the good things about Worm plus the improvements to Wildbow's writing and characters from Twig. If I had to name the biggest flaw with Worm, it would probably be that many of the characters were weak , so the prospect of a story in the same setting with that issue improved is exciting.

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Plorkyeran
Mar 21, 2007

Plorky Pig, let's get that Maria+Holic typesetting done yeah? You're starting to develop the requtation of lazy and slow, so ammend that for your own sake


I thought Taylor was an immensely frustrating main character, but at the same time I loved her. Every single arc had multiple times when I wanted to yell at her to stop making such terrible decisions, but my frustration was born out of that I found her sympathetic despite her flaws. I loved how the perspective that the story was told from made it so that I could understand how this character could think of herself as a good person making good decisions while actually being a bit of an rear end in a top hat.

I think the story could have benefited from a few more interludes where you see Taylor from an outside perspective. She doesn't notice that she's sort of hosed up, so the story inherently can't draw attention to it; you have to just notice things like that she didn't form any meaningful connections with the Chicago wards in two years, realize that's a problem, and think about what that says about Taylor without any guidance from the story.

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She isn't under-powered at all, though. In her first fight ever, before she's even come up with any creative tactics/ideas, she nearly kills Lung, a villain strong enough to fight the entire Brockton Bay Protectorate team. Her power is actually pretty ridiculous and basically an automatic win button against anyone who doesn't have some way to avoid being damaged by bug stings/bites, and that's even before she figures out how to do the more creative stuff. It's probably one of, if not the, most powerful ability in the series against regular humans as well. Taylor is only really an underdog against the strongest characters in the series, like the triumvirate or Siberian or whatever, and characters who have an ability that happens to directly counter hers (like Armsmaster/Dragon's bug-killing technology). And, of course, Wildbow tends to pit her against these sorts of characters, because she'd be able to easily defeat almost anyone else. I've always been really confused by people perceiving Taylor as some sort of underdog with a weak power.
Yeah I don't get it either. It only sounds underpowered when you downplay it as much as possible, like saying Magneto can bend spoons.

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Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


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Yeah I don't get it either. It only sounds underpowered when you downplay it as much as possible, like saying Magneto can bend spoons.

It's underpowered in the sense that characters who control animals (e.g., Kouda in My Hero Academia) are usually weak. Though to be fair, a lot of Taylor's power comes from the multitasking and sense-sharing abilities. (Plus Kouda is afraid of bugs, lol.)

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Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


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She isn't under-powered at all, though. In her first fight ever, before she's even come up with any creative tactics/ideas, she nearly kills Lung, a villain strong enough to fight the entire Brockton Bay Protectorate team.

Literally the FIRST chapter has her notebook with three or four months' worth (two hundred pages) of prep getting ruined (explained in 1.2).

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Do we want to take bets on who Heart is?

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Jan 23, 2012

Wings Out


My guess? Vista. Young, at the end of the world, part of the wards, powerful powers.

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Not that it really matters because for all of Taylor supposedly only being effective with prep time, she's remarkably good at improvising her way around all manner of problems anyway.

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