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Aug 4, 2003

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I was totally ready to try this because I'd like to try a new LCG at the point where there's a more limited card pool and everyone's trying to figure out what works etc.

but they've decided to do the awful "buy three core sets" thing again so gently caress that =/

there's one of these in every thread.

the single core even comes with special, 1-core deckbuilding rules, you ninny.

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there's one of these in every thread.

the single core even comes with special, 1-core deckbuilding rules, you ninny.

That doesn't make the practice acceptable though.

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May 31, 2007



I'm probably falling into a trap here but it's not some kind of anti consumer plot, it's a razor edge balancing act between having a low cost starting sku that can appeal to casual gamers vs including enough in the box for competitive play vs balancing potential wastage from multiple cores. There's no easy answer.

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I'm probably falling into a trap here but it's not some kind of anti consumer plot, it's a razor edge balancing act between having a low cost starting sku that can appeal to casual gamers vs including enough in the box for competitive play vs balancing potential wastage from multiple cores. There's no easy answer.

3 core sets is the entire playset and costs about the same as a single box of magic cards, so that doesn't seem overly onerous.

And there doesn't seem to be a way to win here, Netrunner had more than 1 card per core and people got super pissed at all the extras they ended up with at 3 cores.

Unless people just expect that a single core will include a full playset of 600 cards or so for 40 bucks, in which case, they're insane.

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3 core sets is the entire playset and costs about the same as a single box of magic cards, so that doesn't seem overly onerous.

And there doesn't seem to be a way to win here, Netrunner had more than 1 card per core and people got super pissed at all the extras they ended up with at 3 cores.

Unless people just expect that a single core will include a full playset of 600 cards or so for 40 bucks, in which case, they're insane.

Did they REALLY get super pissed though? LOL

Edit: Doomtown Reloaded only required 2 cores. TBF though, it's the only LCG I've played until L5R

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Sinteres
Mar 26, 2004
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Is there any use of the Shadowlands taint at all in the new game yet?

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I knew they weren't a faction in the game, but I thought they might still be represented somehow. i guess they'll probably advance the storyline and bring back Fu Leng somehow since the coup hasn't happened yet/might not happen, and that might be when they could reintroduce the mechanic (or faction) if they don't do it before then.

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Mar 6, 2006

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Wait, the Mantis aren't a great clan anymore? What happened to them? Did they just get demoted?

Who's gonna have the rear end in a top hat archers if I can't play a Tsuruchi Archer?

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Wait, the Mantis aren't a great clan anymore? What happened to them?

Who's gonna have the rear end in a top hat archers if I can't play a Tsuruchi Archer?

It's earlier in the timeline than when they became a great clan.

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Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011




The game is a reset to before the Scorpion Coup. In the original game Mantis weren't a great clan until the Second Day of Thunder and Lady Otaku used the status as a bribe to get the Mantis' help in the war.

Edit: if the game follows FFG standard release schedule and loosely adheres to the original story arc, there'll be 6 booster packs in the current Imperial cycle with a Scorpion Coup deluxe expansion in April/May.

Though relaunch the timeline if you're going to strictly adhere to the old one.

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I knew they weren't a faction in the game, but I thought they might still be represented somehow. i guess they'll probably advance the storyline and bring back Fu Leng somehow since the coup hasn't happened yet/might not happen, and that might be when they could reintroduce the mechanic (or faction) if they don't do it before then.

I think there's a goblin card in the next pack.

Whenever I think about them adding more factions, I always end up getting stonewalled by the 20 card a month limit. If you add Mantis and Shadowlands, that gives you room for 2 cards per faction each month + 2 Neutrals. I can't see them adding all the esoteric stuff from the first game like Naga or Ninjas or whatever unless they copy the mini-faction idea from Netrunner and give them like 1 or 2 cards a cycle, tops.

edit: This is also why I don't think the clan coup is going to go the same way, unless we're gonna get a bunch of Burning Sands Scorpion cards for a cycle or two.

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Apr 4, 2007

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the single core even comes with special, 1-core deckbuilding rules, you ninny.

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PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

...as much revenge as any man could possibly take.


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3 core sets is the entire playset and costs about the same as a single box of magic cards, so that doesn't seem overly onerous.

And there doesn't seem to be a way to win here, Netrunner had more than 1 card per core and people got super pissed at all the extras they ended up with at 3 cores.

Unless people just expect that a single core will include a full playset of 600 cards or so for 40 bucks, in which case, they're insane.

Charging $100 USD for the initial buyin to get a full playset of everything is really not that bad if you come from a M:tG or other collectible card game background.

However a lot of people still just view FFG as a board game company that happens to also make deep, complex, card games. As such they want to cater their product to the casual board game crowd that doesn't mind dropping $30-$40 on a single game that they place once or twice and then toss on the stack. I obviously don't have any numbers but I really would love to somehow find out how many people only ever just buy a single core. I have a friend that practically collects board games and he's bought of their games but I think even he dives in with multiple cores as he gave me two core sets of LotR that he didn't want and couldn't get rid of.

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Whenever I think about them adding more factions, I always end up getting stonewalled by the 20 card a month limit. If you add Mantis and Shadowlands, that gives you room for 2 cards per faction each month + 2 Neutrals. I can't see them adding all the esoteric stuff from the first game like Naga or Ninjas or whatever unless they copy the mini-faction idea from Netrunner and give them like 1 or 2 cards a cycle, tops.

Presumably they would introduce them as factions using the deluxe expansions. It's also possible they do them through neutral cards that can later be part of the faction, or something. That's probably a bit fiddly of course.

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May 25, 2012


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Presumably they would introduce them as factions using the deluxe expansions. It's also possible they do them through neutral cards that can later be part of the faction, or something. That's probably a bit fiddly of course.

I think its safe to say that deluxe expansions will be how new factions get introduced, if they do. WH40K:Conquest is closest example (I don't think GoT has introduced new factions). It's hard to tell how extra factions will affect the monthly packs, as Conquest had so few cycles.

They could also introduce a faction via stronghold with relaxed deck construction. But that only works for something like Toturi's Army.

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I wonder how closely they're going to follow the original plotline; some of it was pretty stupid. Like the Sun and Moon dying, twice in a generation at that. I wouldn't be surprised if they generally followed it, since it's easier than writing new stuff and less likely to cause fans to get mad, but I'd be interested in seeing things be a bit less silly.

Also interested in seeing how they handle the minor clans and stuff in the RPG. I liked quite a few of them, but none are in the beta yet.

Also, I never got into the old card game, but the new one being, well, new, is tempting me. I can't afford even a single starter set right now, but if I get more money and the local game shop turns out to have a decent amount of people who play, I may end up trying to get into this one.

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If I were them I'd still do the coup and (especially) the second day of thunder arc, but maybe throw some curve balls and change who does what a bit. After that I think they should probably chart their own course while borrowing from things that worked; being beholden to the mess of a plot forever would defeat the purpose of rebooting. I think they should especially steer clear of Daigot Sue, who was an interesting character (even if lawful evil guy reforming chaotic evil group to be more effective obviously wasn't an original concept), but was also pretty obviously the story team's bulletproof baby. Bringing him back just to kill him off would be funny, but going out of their way to piss off former Shadowlands players, especially if they never come back as a playable faction, probably isn't worth it.

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I'm assuming the story will be different just because the players aren't gonna make the same choices and/or won't win in the same fashion. I believe FFG did say that players would have some control of the story like before, so I'd expect that by itself should keep thinks moving in a different direction.

And I'd almost like to see them avoid any sort of large, "epic" events. Second day of thunder was cool and all, but I think a lot of what I liked played out in the cards, which I don't think they'll quite have the freedom to do under their current LCG model. I mean if they wanted to stay closer to real history, it's not like Sengoku era didn't have tons of stuff going on to crib from, without needing to have gods and whatnot show up.

Also I do hope they add in some minor factions/strongholds down the line. They don't necessarily need "full" support, especially if they're given a lot of leeway in adding cards from other factions (although they've not quite brought back the concept of "trait" decks in AGoT which was a big thing in the 1.0 version, which is kinda disappointing). I'd also really love if they'd add a couple card types back to the dynasty side, it feels kinda lackluster imo with just characters and holdings. Especially when you consider characters show up in both decks and holdings are basically relegated to 3-4 per deck (if that). Events and "regions" (which would actually work more like old holdings and come into play) would be great adds down the line imo.

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I'd like to see an exterior threat like say.. the Yodotai threaten Rokugan early on, leading to the Shadowlands assisting and changing what it means to be "tainted"

From there, there are a ton of directions they could go in that are new

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Aramoro
Jun 1, 2012



I really hope they don't bring back the Shadowlands as a playable faction in the LCG. It's an external corrupting influence tainting the great clans.

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I'd like to see an exterior threat like say.. the Yodotai threaten Rokugan early on, leading to the Shadowlands assisting and changing what it means to be "tainted"

From there, there are a ton of directions they could go in that are new

Well there's always the Yobanjin, wasn't dealing with one of their invasions a reason for the delayed military response to the coup?

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I really hope they don't bring back the Shadowlands as a playable faction in the LCG. It's an external corrupting influence tainting the great clans.

Or if they do, don’t have them become a clan. That just doesn’t work on so many levels.

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Or if they do, don’t have them become a clan. That just doesn’t work on so many levels.

But Daigotsu's son had to fulfill his legacy and become emperor because Daigotsu was so cool and good and also a god now who's mightier than that Fu Leng guy ever was btw. Okay, maybe you're right.

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I really hope they don't bring back the Shadowlands as a playable faction in the LCG. It's an external corrupting influence tainting the great clans.

Counterpoint: Spider Clan was the most interesting thing to happen in the setting in a decade.

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Or if they do, don’t have them become a clan. That just doesn’t work on so many levels.

They weren't ever a clan until Spider (which actually was distinct from shadowlands). I'd like to see them because they were one of my fav factions but I have no idea how they'd make them fit mechanically.

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I personally really liked the spider clan, but I totally get why long term Shadowlands players were mad about it.

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I personally really liked the spider clan, but I totally get why long term Shadowlands players were mad about it.

In fairness, they gave us a choice. I voted Great Clan.

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If they can figure out a way to do Spider without repeating the dumb "The Empress officially recognizes the clan of tainted monstrosities" storyline and without breaking the honor mechanics in half, I'd be fine with the Spider. I'm not inherently against there being a faction that's all the evil stuff, I'm just worried that it would lead to a faction that can just bid 5 every honor bid with no consequence.

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Counterpoint: Spider Clan was the most interesting thing to happen in the setting in a decade.

I just don't think they work mechanically or thematically.

Better option make 1,000 Years of Darkness the canon storyline.

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If they can figure out a way to do Spider without repeating the dumb "The Empress officially recognizes the clan of tainted monstrosities" storyline and without breaking the honor mechanics in half, I'd be fine with the Spider. I'm not inherently against there being a faction that's all the evil stuff, I'm just worried that it would lead to a faction that can just bid 5 every honor bid with no consequence.

But Scorpion are already a clan .

Also I didn't mind the Spider so much from a story standpoint (besides the fact the Daigotsu stuff was over the top-they could've just replayed what happened with Yoritomo and it would've been cool imo) I just didn't think they had that much mechanical differentiation. Shadowlands played differently with their virtual immunity to dishonor (iirc a couple of their boxes could still lose to dishonor), lack of honor victory, and personality/gold base.

Also 1000 years of darkness was legit cool. I always liked their bonus sets like that, a great way to play with the setting.

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And I'd almost like to see them avoid any sort of large, "epic" events. Second day of thunder was cool and all, but I think a lot of what I liked played out in the cards, which I don't think they'll quite have the freedom to do under their current LCG model. I mean if they wanted to stay closer to real history, it's not like Sengoku era didn't have tons of stuff going on to crib from, without needing to have gods and whatnot show up.

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I love these pre-Coup settings like the official timeline for RPG 1e and now 5e and the LCG. We're always told a lot about how Rokugan is such an interesting and different culture and conflict comes from biting words as often as biting steel and so forth. I'm there hook, line, and sinker. But then after the Coup kicked off the old official timeline couldn't go 5 drat in-setting years without cataclysmic death, destruction, and war wracking all of Rokugan. "War" isn't a problem, mind you, because "just war" would probably be a fine reflection of Sengoku, and my only beef with the pre-Coup world is that it is taylor lautner naked fake too stable. The problem is the cataclysmic stuff, the constant supernatural plagues and risen gods and dying gods and zombie cults and monster invasions and explosions in the spirit realms and blah blah blah. It gets really tired, like modern superhero movies that don't understand conflict and think a villain can only be interesting if he is attempting to unbind the galaxy or whatever. And it takes away what is supposed to make Rokugan so neat, replacing it with "D&D [meaning standard fantasy tropes] in kimono."

I am super jazzed that the first LCG cycle appears to just be idling around the Empire showing us business as usual, with topics no more EPIC 3D IMAX than "do we approve of gaijin Unicorn magic." I will continue being super jazzed if the cycles are thematically like Netrunner's, where each one is just showing us life in another part of the setting, only doing something big every third cycle or so. Seriously the "cyberpunk in California / India / Africa" cycle concepts own and "exploration of life in the eerie Crab hills / the sharp-tongued intrigue of Crane Winter Courts / the festivals of the common folk" would also be concepts that own. Way better than wondering just where the hell more Matsu are even coming from given they died in the thousands in the last cataclysm and in the cataclysm five years before that and the one five years before that...

Naturally the RPG beta module prominently features...sigh...going to the Wall and fighting a goblin zombie army. Welp, we can still hope for the future.

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Oh yeah. That'd be neat; put the various weird cataclysms in as alternate setting stuff in the RPGs and whatnot, but keep the "main" thing fairly standard and don't go crazy with multiple disasters a decade and repeatedly killing the gods and stuff. Heck, don't kill the gods at all; it was kind of dumb even the first time, and also given that she's a major figure in Japanese religion having Amaterasu kill herself (because her evil husband who hated her died, at that) seems... Questionable.

Throw in some reference to all the old stuff as a possible setting or something, so fans of the original plot have support for still playing with it, just don't do it all over again. In part because it was silly, and in part because everyone's already seen it before. Otherwise, though, keep "official" Rokugan more subdued, with things like "normal" wars and whatnot being the usual big deals people are worried about.

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PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

...as much revenge as any man could possibly take.


I also hope the shadowlands never become a prominent role in the card game or the LCG.

Using Game of Thrones as an analogy; court intrigue doesn't balance well with society ending situations. There's a strong sentiment that the end of Thrones is getting too fantasy and overly good vs evil, or amoral would be more appropriate, where as everyone liked the shades of grey characters plotting and jockeying for position.

Similarly in L5R the best part of the game is the bickering and fighting amongst the clans. Having to see them all band together to fight off Godzilla-no-oni would be boring and totally interrupt the storylines that draw a lot of people to the game.

If they want to bring Spider back as a clan I'd rather see them do it in a way that feels natural this time. Not 'there was a vote; now we need to write a story to get them into being a clan asap'.

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Nov 21, 2008

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In fairness, they gave us a choice.

Ah, how many stupid stupid story prizes are the result of this. Having to have 10+ results for everything no matter how nonsensical really compounded over 20 years.

My favorite will always be the Unicorn winner picking "No more stories about us, please" in response to be given immunity to the Kolat, their main interesting thing.

Oh who am I kidding, my favorite story is when the cool political Emperor Naseru wandered into the Shadowlands for literally no reason with his pals and got them all killed off camera because the fans picked the wrong wind for Emperor. (RIP Shiba Aikune, you were too cool for this world. Just as you started to grow as a character too)

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Yawgmoth
Sep 10, 2003

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I hope the Shadowlands see some development in both the RPG and LCG because otherwise it's a pretty gigantic bucket of unused material and wasted potential. If the Shadowlands are never a credible threat it really makes the Crab look like a band of paranoid idiots, first off. Secondly, without the Shadowlands the game is awfully single-note; yeah great you have clans that fight with s/words and an emperor who kind of but not really rules the whole thing. That's great for one game, maybe two, what else you got? You need that external threat to show that the petty squabbles are just that, and also that when it really matters the clans can actually accomplish anything at all worth doing.

I also want to see Spider Clan show up again, but with 100% less Daigot Sue. Spurned younger brother of the emperor who fucks off to the shadowlands with "fine, I'll make my own empire! With blackjack, and hookers!" is fine and good, but holy poo poo just about everything else was dumb as hell. Just let them be the subtle infiltrators trying to rot the empire from the inside, that's an interesting-ish angle to run with.

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Mar 6, 2006

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I think it's a really novel idea that L5R allows players to influence the course of history, but allowing weebs to make their OC Do Not Steal characters into official Mary Sues is really terrible and a severe detriment to the setting. Let them decide the outcome of a battle or something, not deify their stupid loving half-angel, half-demon, half-dragon character.

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