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McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



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Artoo: Purposefully helped cause the deaths of a millions of people who were legitimate military targets.

Snyder Supes: Purposefully killed only one target in self defense/saving a family, but caused hundreds or even thousands of innocent deaths through unintentional collateral damage.

Someone should make a Trolley Problem image of this.

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


R2D2 doesn't count because it is only a machine, not a articles of teen parenting real person.

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Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008


At this point I'm only going to see IX to spot prequel references.

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Dec 29, 2007

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i see your trolley problem solution and raise you this solution:

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No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

Hi!


Was R2D2 good for preserving a map leading to child abuser luke skywalker, so the authorities might find him and bring him to justice, or bad, for obscuring the map in a highly confusing treasure hunt

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Barudak
May 7, 2007



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lol remember when rose and finn rescued the enslaved camels but left the slave children to rot?

It's the unequivocally best part of the movie

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Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006

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Was R2D2 good for preserving a map leading to child abuser luke skywalker, so the authorities might find him and bring him to justice, or bad, for obscuring the map in a highly confusing treasure hunt

Between the OT and the ST, someone took R2 with them through dozens of escape rooms, and it's affected him a little.

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Mar 20, 2017


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Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006




This is cool but where's the info on Bea Arthur's cantina song

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General Dog
Apr 26, 2008



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i see your trolley problem solution and raise you this solution:

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This kid gets it

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SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007



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Artoo: Purposefully helped cause the deaths of a millions of people who were legitimate military targets.

Snyder Supes: Purposefully killed only one target in self defense/saving a family, but caused hundreds or even thousands of innocent deaths through unintentional collateral damage.

Someone should make a Trolley Problem image of this.

Star Wars fans generally have enormous trouble with characterization, which is why everything tends to boil down to these rules about 'honorable killing'.


But since we're on the topic: it's helpful to go back to the original hypothetical scenario from which the trolley problem was heavily abstracted. After all, what are these people doing tied to the rails? Who set up this whole bizarre death-trap?

"Suppose that a judge or magistrate is faced with rioters demanding that a culprit be found for a certain crime and threatening otherwise to take their own bloody revenge on a particular section of the community. The real culprit being unknown, the judge sees himself as able to prevent the bloodshed only by framing some innocent person and having him executed."
-Philippa Foot

Here we have the context. The 'trolley' is revealed to be a euphemism for an uncontrollable vengeful mob, and you are positioned as the lawman doing whatever it takes to maintain social stability.

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Big Bowie Bonanza
Dec 29, 2007

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i hate when screen rant articles show up in my news feed

"Star Wars 9 Theory: Kylo Ren Is Redeemed... Because of Darth Revan"

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Jan 29, 2006

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i hate when screen rant articles show up in my news feed

"Star Wars 9 Theory: Kylo Ren Is Redeemed... Because of Darth Revan"

star wars 9 theory: young hairy pussy girls not that you dumb fucks

This and poo poo "science news" from the Daily Mail are my kryptonite.

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


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i hate when screen rant articles show up in my news feed

"Star Wars 9 Theory: Kylo Ren Is Redeemed... Because of Darth Revan"

star wars 9 theory: anal strap on sex not that you dumb fucks

Every time I search "Star Wars Episode 9" (or some variation thereupon) on Google, at least half of the results on the first "News" page are Daily Express articles (almost all written by their Arts Editor!) either reporting Mike Zeroh videos as fact (and ALWAYS appending "AND FANS ARE NOT HAPPY" to the end of the title) or repeating some YouTube complaint video about Last Jedi about eight months after it was posted.

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Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018



I get a lot of "theory" videos that are always on the caliber of "Luke Skywalker's father REVEALED", and it turns out they maybe watched the movie, but based on something they read in a canon book, came to the conclusion that it's Darth Vader.

Here's one now: "THE MATRIX - Why Cypher did it!" (12 minutes long) Like, was that... not clear in the movie?

Or this one: "George Lucas REVEALS why Anakin thought the Jedi were evil." (No, not in the movie, in a comment he said somewhere)


It gets even worse when people try to analyze games in a similar manner. "I have found secret evidence that the fish girl in Breath of the Wild is in love... with Link!!! "
No poo poo? And then they get upset when someone "steals" their grand theories without giving credit.

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Dec 18, 2012


Maybe that person just goes comatose when people are talking instead of fighting

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General Dog
Apr 26, 2008



Kylo Ren will be redeemed in the sense that he'll turn out to be right about everything.

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tadashi
Feb 20, 2006



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Kylo Ren will be redeemed in the sense that he'll turn out to be right about everything.
I'm not even certain what Kylo's endgame is, but I guess you could say the same about Vader. What would have even happened if Vader killed the Emperor, or someone else did? I haven't finished any of the newer Vader material so I don't know if there's something in there that helps clarify that.

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Vader wants to bring order to the galaxy. Kylo probably wants to bring order to the galaxy as well. Palpatine said he wanted to bring order to the galaxy, which is why they needed an Empire.

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The MSJ
May 17, 2010





Apparently the first design was used for Maul's mother in The Clone Wars.

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


I believe Asajj Ventress also originated as a Maul design.

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cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



If I'm remembering right she actually originated as a design for the new Sith apprentice in Episode 2, before they settled on getting Christopher Lee.

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Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Assajj Ventress was given the "Ex-Jedi-turned-Jedi Hunter" backstory that originally belonged to Aurra Sing from the Jedi Apprentice novels

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Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

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Probably unconsciously, even EU writers get that a lot of Jedis eventually realize the Jedi are dumb and bad and deserve to be destroyed

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galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011


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Vader wants to bring order to the galaxy. Kylo probably wants to bring order to the galaxy as well. Palpatine said he wanted to bring order to the galaxy, which is why they needed an Empire.

The Sith and the Dark Side in general seems to be about this theme of pathologically seeking to control things to the extent you forget/destroy what you wanted to protect. Poetically this is what led to the fall of the Jedi as they became so obsessed with control they forgot what they were supposed to be doing. Mace Windu deciding to seize power over the Republic to "save" it is in-fact the immediate cause of it's destruction.

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Caros
May 14, 2008



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The Sith and the Dark Side in general seems to be about this theme of pathologically seeking to control things to the extent you forget/destroy what you wanted to protect. Poetically this is what led to the fall of the Jedi as they became so obsessed with control they forgot what they were supposed to be doing. Mace Windu deciding to seize power over the Republic to "save" it is in-fact the immediate cause of it's destruction.

Arresting/killing sheev wasn't seizing power over the Republic though. By that point the Jedi knew that the sith master was directly behind the entire war. Finding out it was palps meant that he was an out and out traitor to the Republic, which made arresting or killing him kind of their job.

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galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011


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Arresting/killing sheev wasn't seizing power over the Republic though. By that point the Jedi knew that the sith master was directly behind the entire war. Finding out it was palps meant that he was an out and out traitor to the Republic, which made arresting or killing him kind of their job.

But they were directly talking about how removing him would mean taking over the Republic "for its own good" before hand. The idea being they could have avoided the situation by not being beholden to Sheev in the first place. Plus the fact trying to kill Palpatine is the immediate cause of Anakin turning on the Jedi and gives the Casus Belli that allows Sidious to legitimize seizing power.

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Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003


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Arresting/killing sheev wasn't seizing power over the Republic though. By that point the Jedi knew that the sith master was directly behind the entire war. Finding out it was palps meant that he was an out and out traitor to the Republic, which made arresting or killing him kind of their job.

Killing Sheev is “not the Jedi way”.

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Jan 29, 2006

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The Sith and the Dark Side in general seems to be about this theme of pathologically seeking to control things to the extent you forget/destroy what you wanted to protect. Poetically this is what led to the fall of the Jedi as they became so obsessed with control they forgot what they were supposed to be doing. Mace Windu deciding to seize power over the Republic to "save" it is in-fact the immediate cause of it's destruction.

The proper conclusion of the ST would be the Jedi giving up the Republic, which has repeatedly drawn them to the Dark Side.

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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


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The proper conclusion of the ST would be the Jedi giving up the Republic, which has repeatedly drawn them to the Dark Side.

That was the ending to the OT.

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General Dog
Apr 26, 2008



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Arresting/killing sheev wasn't seizing power over the Republic though. By that point the Jedi knew that the sith master was directly behind the entire war. Finding out it was palps meant that he was an out and out traitor to the Republic, which made arresting or killing him kind of their job.

It may have been doing the "right" thing by attempting to arrest Palpatine, but they were extremely stupid to do so. The fact that he just outright told Anakin "hey, I'm the Sith Master" should have made it extremely obvious that it was a trap, but Mace just went ahead and took the bait.

On that note, how bad was Mace and Yoda's working relationship that Mace doesn't even pick up the Holo-phone to run any of this by him before just going out and attempting a coup?

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punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

So I finally saw The Last Jedi last night and I...liked it? I usually don't care too much for Star Wars films, but I felt that it was the best one besides Empire.

Not totally sure why it gets so much hate, but skimming through, it seems that people hated it for the same reasons I enjoyed it.

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Barudak
May 7, 2007



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It may have been doing the "right" thing by attempting to arrest Palpatine, but they were extremely stupid to do so. The fact that he just outright told Anakin "hey, I'm the Sith Master" should have made it extremely obvious that it was a trap, but Mace just went ahead and took the bait.

On that note, how bad was Mace and Yoda's working relationship that Mace doesn't even pick up the Holo-phone to run any of this by him before just going out and attempting a coup?

Am I crazy? I though there was a scene of Mace and Yoda discussing their plan to replace Sheev by force and admitting it would be a coup attempt

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General Dog
Apr 26, 2008



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Am I crazy? I though there was a scene of Mace and Yoda discussing their plan to replace Sheev by force and admitting it would be a coup attempt

There is, but that’s before the revelation that he is the Sith Lord. As far as we see, no one runs that information past Yoda before they decide to barge into his office and arrest him.

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Waffles Inc.
Jan 20, 2005



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So I finally saw The Last Jedi last night and I...liked it? I usually don't care too much for Star Wars films, but I felt that it was the best one besides Empire.

Not totally sure why it gets so much hate, but skimming through, it seems that people hated it for the same reasons I enjoyed it.

Not to be too snarky or anything but laying out the reasons you enjoyed it might be a good place to start understanding?

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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009



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Arresting/killing sheev wasn't seizing power over the Republic though. By that point the Jedi knew that the sith master was directly behind the entire war. Finding out it was palps meant that he was an out and out traitor to the Republic, which made arresting or killing him kind of their job.

Palpating was the republic. The Jedi were the seditious traitor.

Also Samuel Jackson didn’t know Palpatine was behind the separatists. He only knew he was a sith. Iirc.

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punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

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Not to be too snarky or anything but laying out the reasons you enjoyed it might be a good place to start understanding?

- I enjoyed how it wasn't too predictable

- Rei not having any connection with anyone's bloodline was a cool and good decision

- Luke and Kylo backstory were good

- Bloodsalt set piece was good

- Luke hologram was good

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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009



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- I enjoyed how it wasn't too predictable

- Rei not having any connection with anyone's bloodline was a cool and good decision

- Luke and Kylo backstory were good

- Bloodsalt set piece was good

- Luke hologram was good

Opening battle scene was very good

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SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007



Those aren't reasons.

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General Dog
Apr 26, 2008



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Palpating was the republic. The Jedi were the seditious traitor.

Also Samuel Jackson didn’t know Palpatine was behind the separatists. He only knew he was a sith. Iirc.

The movies are kind of vague on how much anybody knows about the separatists' leadership, but don't the Jedi have enough information to associate the Sith with the Separatists? They 100% recognized Darth Maul as a Sith, and knew he was affiliated with the pre-Clone Wars Trade Federation. I can't remember if they ever identified Dooku as a Sith or not.

Come to think of it, it's not entirely clear that anyone ever made the connection that Palpatine/Sidious was pulling Dooku's strings.

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