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Lobok
Jul 13, 2006



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[responding to a post about NINJAK]

man you know i could go for a revival of lovely white guy karate movies

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Scott Adkins already has a career though.

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Adkins has Savage Dog on Netflix right now, a tour de force in lovely white guy karate.

Kind of blown away that in this conversation about ninjas, white guy karate movies, and Scott Adkins someone didn't immediately bring up Scott Adkins' two Ninja movies.

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Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


Also I hope nobody is saying that Scott Adkins is bad at martial arts, because he is not. He is very good.

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Jan 1, 2010

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If only Marvel movies could reach the sterling hights of "notoriously terrible"
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Mar 8, 2007
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Kind of blown away that in this conversation about ninjas, white guy karate movies, and Scott Adkins someone didn't immediately bring up Scott Adkins' two Ninja movies.

Last year you may have seen trailers for a Bruce Lee movie. It completely bombed because people looked at the cast and plot and realized despite how the trailer is cut it's not actually a movie about Bruce Lee. Rather it's a movie about a lovely white guy who is a student of Bruce Lee.

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LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

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Also I hope nobody is saying that Scott Adkins is bad at martial arts, because he is not. He is very good.

Connecting this to comic book movies again, Marvel has hired both Scott Adkins and Marko Zaror and completely wasted them. It's criminal.

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Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

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Connecting this to comic book movies again, Marvel has hired both Scott Adkins and Marko Zaror and completely wasted them. It's criminal.

Scott Adkins should be Batman

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Lobok
Jul 13, 2006



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Last year you may have seen trailers for a Bruce Lee movie. It completely bombed because people looked at the cast and plot and realized despite how the trailer is cut it's not actually a movie about Bruce Lee. Rather it's a movie about a lovely white guy who is a student of Bruce Lee.

You can never fully kill Brucesploitation as a genre.

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LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.


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Last year you may have seen trailers for a Bruce Lee movie. It completely bombed because people looked at the cast and plot and realized despite how the trailer is cut it's not actually a movie about Bruce Lee. Rather it's a movie about a lovely white guy who is a student of Bruce Lee.

A lovely white guy who is Steve McQueen without them being allowed to call him Steve McQueen. He's like Steve Kane or something.

There are two good fights, but the rest of the movie sucks out loud.

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Scott Adkins should be Batman

I'd watch it.

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Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


Scott Adkins should have been Iron Fist imo

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Connecting this to comic book movies again, Marvel has hired both Scott Adkins and Marko Zaror and completely wasted them. It's criminal.

They had Adkins get beat up by a CGI cape. Criminal.

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Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Checking his IMDB, he's been in 3 Marvel productions: Dr Strange, X-Men: Origins Wolverine (He was Deadpool at the end!), and the TV show Mutant X

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Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005

The right reading for this is the one I'm giving.

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Jar-Jar was considered a bad part of an otherwise ok movie.

No. I'm sorry but this is an outright lie. Jar Jar, Jake Lloyd, midichlorians, a story revolving around space taxes, Naboo being really loving lame, all of these things were and are reviled and they make up a vast majority of the runtime.

"People are starting to look at the prequels more fondly" is entirely being cooked up in the CD think tank and Wookieepedia. Widespread revulsion at Phantom Menace was immediate, but there's always been a core of naysayers trying to actively rewrite history on the quality of the film and now how it was even received.

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Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible


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Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


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No. I'm sorry but this is an outright lie. Jar Jar, Jake Lloyd, midichlorians, a story revolving around space taxes, Naboo being really loving lame, all of these things were and are reviled and they make up a vast majority of the runtime.

"People are starting to look at the prequels more fondly" is entirely being cooked up in the CD think tank and Wookieepedia. Widespread revulsion at Phantom Menace was immediate, but there's always been a core of naysayers trying to actively rewrite history on the quality of the film and now how it was even received.

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Disproving you is a click away.

People were incredibly excited about the first new Star Wars movie in over 15 years, and most liked it, and many saw it multiple times. Nobody online was saying they reviled it, mostly because there was no point. The SomethingAwful forums did not exist, Reddit did not exist, Twitter did not exist, Digg did not exist, hell the idea of online chat was still around ICQ or newsgroups. Online simply did not have the level of poo poo consensus that it has now. The way we use the internet to discuss things has completely changed since 1999 and you've mentally deluded yourself into thinking it was always nerds performatively screaming at other nerds.

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Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

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There was newsgroups and stuff - plus basic boards. I am sure the wayback machine has posts.

I was only 18 and I remember thinking TPM was good. I saw it like 6 times and bought all the bullshit (that is now entirely in the garbage).

E: Like, I was on Lum the Mad around 2000 and you can bet there was discussion of that poo poo back then.

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Dr. S.O. Feelgood
Dec 30, 2008


I have some young cousins and they really like the new Star Wars movies. They like the “old movies” too, by which they mean the prequels. I’m not sure if any of them have seen the original trilogy. I was around their age when TPM came out and I remember liking it quite a bit. I knew what happened in the original trilogy, but I don’t think I had actually fully seen any of them at that point in time.

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Jul 27, 2004

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No. I'm sorry but this is an outright lie. Jar Jar, Jake Lloyd, midichlorians, a story revolving around space taxes, Naboo being really loving lame, all of these things were and are reviled and they make up a vast majority of the runtime.

Bullshit. When the films came out, people said "huh, those parts were weird" and went on with their lives.

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Dec 27, 2006

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Serf
May 5, 2011








yeah my dad was a huge fan of star wars and took me and my little brother to see tpm and aotc. he liked them, we liked them, it was a good bonding experience

we just recently took him to see the last jedi and had a blast

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There was definitely negative feelings and opinions about the prequels at the time. I have no idea what percentage of the reaction it was or anything because Star Wars was never an important enough part of my life to care in the slightest bit about who shot first or whether Jabba was CGI or not. But I definitely remember quite a bit of rancor and having a lot of "chill out, it doesn't change the old movies" conversations.

Having recently rewatched Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones I feel like its a bit of a dragging mess of politics and series bible background stuff that probably didn't need to be added to the overall story, but AotC has way more Jedi stuff and action and the political/character background stuff feels more meaningful so I'm cautiously optimistic that when I get around to rewatching Revenge of the Sith it might be a further step towards engaging. But I can totally see why the pod stuff and Jar Jar might have appealed to kid me if I had been a kid when it came out.

And the CGI holds up pretty iffy. But I've seen worse.

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Nobody online was saying they reviled it, mostly because there was no point. The SomethingAwful forums did not exist, Reddit did not exist, Twitter did not exist, Digg did not exist, hell the idea of online chat was still around ICQ or newsgroups. Online simply did not have the level of poo poo consensus that it has now. The way we use the internet to discuss things has completely changed since 1999 and you've mentally deluded yourself into thinking it was always nerds performatively screaming at other nerds.

Can confirm; all the other 10 year old Star Wars fans and myself loved TPM on the Star Wars-themed IRC echo-chambers I visited after it came out. I'm sure you can search through old Usenet boards to find adult nerds hating on it, though.

By the time AotC came out, TPM was totally reviled online though.

e: Halfway though my 10th (yes, 10th) watch of TPM in theaters I realized that I didn't like it anymore. Though seeing any movie 10 times in 3 months might do that.

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No. I'm sorry but this is an outright lie. Jar Jar, Jake Lloyd, midichlorians, a story revolving around space taxes, Naboo being really loving lame, all of these things were and are reviled and they make up a vast majority of the runtime.

"People are starting to look at the prequels more fondly" is entirely being cooked up in the CD think tank and Wookieepedia. Widespread revulsion at Phantom Menace was immediate, but there's always been a core of naysayers trying to actively rewrite history on the quality of the film and now how it was even received.
I was a kid. We all knew jar jar was lame but I was a little boy for whom Darth Maul fighting to Duel of the Fates was enough
I didn't even realize the Trade Federation guys were blatant Asian racist caricatures until RLM pointed it out when I was an adult cuz it's not like I'd seen the prequels again since I was younger
By the time Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith had come out I think I knew they were bad (the NOOOO, muddled whole of everything in Clones, and the twenty hour lava planet videogame cutscene fight that was even for my younger action-hungry brain entirely too much) but stuff like Christopher Lee, Palpatine, and Jango were enough.
It helps that I was young enough to a.) be easily entertained b.) have no special attachment to the original trilogy, they were these old good movies I did enjoy but not specifically in the sense I'd rewatch them or consider it part of my "identity" as like...a fan. I think I read a couple of those Zahn books in elementary school. Anyway I bring that up just to mean when I watched stuff like midichlorians just kinda harmlessly flew by. Cuz it's not like I had some special affinity to the mystic prestige of the Force or whatever. You can't really "ruin" The Force for a kid. You still get cool powers right?
RLM makes the "boring space taxes and politics" jab but if you're a kid or tween watching the movies there's still enough colors and action and fighting and poo poo happening on the screen for the films to be enjoyable

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Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Yeah people amateur girls getting naked hated Jar Jar and disliked Lloyd and the midichlorians had people groaning but they loving very old naked woman loved Qui-Gon and young Obi-Wan and Darth Maul and thought it was a fun movie and saw it multiple times. I don't think a ton of people gave much of a poo poo about the tax thing especially at first, it might have been in some reviews but it wasn't anywhere near the Jar Jar hate.

It was a lot like TFA's reaction was where you had the long wait and the hype surrounding a new Star Wars coloring a ton of the initial reaction and then slowly people started seeing the cracks and certain complaints started to gain steam, leading with Jar Jar as the primary target of everyone's ire. Except TFA's reaction was accelerated by the internet, which wasn't the powerhouse it is today.

I don't remember a ton of AotC reactions, although I definitely remember the "Revenge of the Sith is better and salvages the trilogy!" narrative going into that one, so it was the least popular at the time certainly. Again this isn't to say that the complaints weren't there or that people who say "I remember being bored and I was 12!" are lying, you just flat out did not see the kind of general consensus that they were utter garbage that exists today.

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Kind of blown away that in this conversation about ninjas, white guy karate movies, and Scott Adkins someone didn't immediately bring up Scott Adkins' two Ninja movies.

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Serf
May 5, 2011








yeah in 1999 the only consensus was found on the playground and everybody wanted to be darth maul. before it was called fanart it was just kids drawing pictures of rad lightsaber fights and poo poo

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Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


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Can confirm; all the other 10 year old Star Wars fans and myself loved TPM on the Star Wars-themed IRC echo-chambers I visited after it came out. I'm sure you can search through old Usenet boards to find adult nerds hating on it, though.

By the time AotC came out, TPM was totally reviled online though.

You can probably find a few but not as many as you might think because anyone old enough to hate it was totally stoked that they got a NEW STAR WARS HOLY poo poo!

As for the perception of TPM being reviled, know what got mainstreamed between 1999 - 2002? Internet forums.

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The Dave
Sep 9, 2003



Not sure why you wouldn't just link out to reviews of them:
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Sodomy Hussein
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The right reading for this is the one I'm giving.

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Disproving you is a click away.

People were incredibly excited about the first new Star Wars movie in over 15 years, and most liked it, and many saw it multiple times. Nobody online was saying they reviled it, mostly because there was no point. The SomethingAwful forums did not exist, Reddit did not exist, Twitter did not exist, Digg did not exist, hell the idea of online chat was still around ICQ or newsgroups. Online simply did not have the level of poo poo consensus that it has now. The way we use the internet to discuss things has completely changed since 1999 and you've mentally deluded yourself into thinking it was always nerds performatively screaming at other nerds.

Don't confuse 8 billion Pepsi cans with the truth my friend.

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You can probably find a few but not as many as you might think because anyone old enough to hate it was totally stoked that they got a NEW STAR WARS HOLY poo poo!

As for the perception of TPM being reviled, know what got mainstreamed between 1999 - 2002? Internet forums.

If a movie's perceived quality can't survive people talking about it, it isn't that good.

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I was a kid. We all knew jar jar was lame but I was a little boy for whom Darth Maul fighting to Duel of the Fates was enough
I didn't even realize the Trade Federation guys were blatant Asian racist caricatures until RLM pointed it out when I was an adult cuz it's not like I'd seen the prequels again since I was younger
By the time Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith had come out I think I knew they were bad (the NOOOO, muddled whole of everything in Clones, and the twenty hour lava planet videogame cutscene fight that was even for my younger action-hungry brain entirely too much) but stuff like Christopher Lee, Palpatine, and Jango were enough.
It helps that I was young enough to a.) be easily entertained b.) have no special attachment to the original trilogy, they were these old good movies I did enjoy but not specifically in the sense I'd rewatch them or consider it part of my "identity" as like...a fan. I think I read a couple of those Zahn books in elementary school. Anyway I bring that up just to mean when I watched stuff like midichlorians just kinda harmlessly flew by. Cuz it's not like I had some special affinity to the mystic prestige of the Force or whatever. You can't really "ruin" The Force for a kid. You still get cool powers right?
RLM makes the "boring space taxes and politics" jab but if you're a kid or tween watching the movies there's still enough colors and action and fighting and poo poo happening on the screen for the films to be enjoyable

This is fair. I was 17 and didn't have a pre-pubescent honeymoon phase with the prequels. It was bad when I watched it and the Internet fomenting against it did not take long, and anticipation for Episode II was noticeably drawn down from the insanity of Episode I. Episode I was the biggest cultural movie event maybe ever, and then people saw it. Episode II was blown of the water by Spiderman.

Anyway, I did a bad thing by taking this poo poo to the comic book movies thread and I now beg for forgiveness that I don't deserve.

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I don't remember a ton of AotC reactions, although I definitely remember the "Revenge of the Sith is better and salvages the trilogy!" narrative going into that one, so it was the least popular at the time certainly. Again this isn't to say that the complaints weren't there or that people who say "I remember being bored and I was 12!" are lying, you just flat out did not see the kind of general consensus that they were utter garbage that exists today.

The way I remember the critical discussion from those years, in the time between TPM and AotC fans turned on the first film. Then people were immediately hyper-critical of AotC upon release and it had a pretty poor reception. Then folks lowered their expectations hard for RotS. Some came out of the film pleasantly surprised, some came out hating them all collectively more.

I mean if any of us could be bothered to look, TheForce.net and Usenet archives definitely go back that far. Heck, even SA's might for part of it.

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Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


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If a movie's perceived quality can't survive people talking about it, it isn't that good.

So once again we've done the thing where someone rewrites reality, and when people come in to set the records straight as to actual observable reality ("the Phantom Menace was universally reviled when it opened" - "no it wasn't") it becomes somehow a statement on the quality of the film.

Just take the L and get lost.

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Jul 27, 2004

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By the time AotC came out, TPM was totally reviled online though.

I'd hypothesize that it was AotC that made TPM reviled.

TPM was very different from the original trilogy in many ways, but it was also a story about a kid and a lead up to the greater story. If you wanted more Star Wars fans like the OT, before AotC came out you could think "TPM isn't quite what I expected, but it's leading into what I want."

But after watching AotC, it was then clear that not only hadn't TPM lead into more films like the OT (or, at least not in the manner these fans wanted or expected), but that was never the goal to begin with.

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yeah in 1999 the only consensus was found on the playground and everybody wanted to be darth maul. before it was called fanart it was just kids drawing pictures of rad lightsaber fights and poo poo

I was a precocious little kid when the OT originally came out, and I can tell, when it came time to play Star Wars, Luke was no one's first choice. Everybody wanted to be Han. (Woe to the kids who were stuck being C3PO & R2D2)

Empire came out, and then more kids wanted to be Luke. Many a kid took a dive off the top and the jungle gym recreating the end of Empire.

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Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



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The way I remember the critical discussion from those years, in the time between TPM and AotC fans turned on the first film. Then people were immediately hyper-critical of AotC upon release and it had a pretty poor reception. Then folks lowered their expectations hard for RotS. Some came out of the film pleasantly surprised, some came out hating them all collectively more.

I mean if any of us could be bothered to look, TheForce.net and Usenet archives definitely go back that far. Heck, even SA's might for part of it.

Yeah I mean like I said the criticism was there and it gained steam for sure, and the fact that anyone was even saying "don't worry Revenge of the Sith is better than the first two" meant that a consensus was starting to form that those were really bad. But you didn't have this cemented consensus that nobody could possibly enjoy these garbage films that you see now.

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Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

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Yeah I mean like I said the criticism was there and it gained steam for sure, and the fact that anyone was even saying "don't worry Revenge of the Sith is better than the first two" meant that a consensus was starting to form that those were really bad. megan ward nude pics But you didn't have this cemented consensus that nobody could possibly enjoy these garbage films that you see now.

Exactly. Nobody was "reviling" TPM in 1999 because the idea of reviling movies was (and still is) ridiculous. You didn't have Youtube idiots bleating at all hours of the day about 30 Ways Jar-Jar RUINS the Phantom Menace.

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Exactly. Nobody was "reviling" TPM in 1999 because the idea of reviling movies was (and still is) ridiculous. You didn't have Youtube idiots bleating at all hours of the day about 30 Ways Jar-Jar RUINS the Phantom Menace.

The youtube idiots I don't understand are the ones that make hours long movie reviews. Why would you watch a movie review that's almost as long as the movie? At that point you might as well just see the film.

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I'd hypothesize that it was AotC that made TPM reviled.

I'm seeing a lot of "people hated Jake Lloyd" and not a lot of "I've never met a human being who had a good thing to say about Hayden Christensen."

I actually thought he played ok off Kevin Kline in Life as a House.

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The youtube idiots I don't understand are the ones that make hours long movie reviews. Why would you watch a movie review that's almost as long as the movie? At that point you might as well just see the film.

To steep in a discussion of the film. It's no different than a movie podcast, except you have to look at some dude's face. Heck, it's barely different than reading pages and pages of discussion on a forum such as Something Awful Dot Com. You can even give your dumb opinions nobody wants to hear below the video, just like we all do here.

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