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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


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So OP, how do you become a clinic escort? I've thought about doing it before, but I really don't know where to start.

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#1 google "abortions near _____" (there are clinics other than PP)

#2 after determining they're legit and not crisis pregnancy center bullshit, call and ask if they use or want escorts (the answer may be no)

#3 do what they say, and realize they are not gonna trust you and are gonna do a lot of screening because antis can also easily do #1 and #2

Yeah, basically what Anne Whateley said. If you're not sure if a clinic is legit or a CPC, call and ask if they provide abortions. If they give you a straight answer they're a legit clinic; if they just really want you to come in to talk about this in person then they're a CPC. Also, I don't know if this would be helpful but I got started escorting through my undergraduate college's Students for Choice (first degree, pre-nursing school). If you live near a decent-sized college, it might be worth reaching out to them to see if they have some choice-related volunteer opportunities that you could join or at least figure out where to start looking.

Also worth noting that some clinics just don't need escorts because of the geography of the building, street, and parking lot; maybe patients have to drive past protesters but they don't have to actually walk through them, which is about the best you can hope for. So if they tell you no it might be because they're situated well. Ask if they have other volunteer opportunities.

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OP- how does your clinic deal with people who are further along than they thought they were? Like if during the US the dating ends up too late for what your clinic performs? I imagine that's a rare but tricky scenario.

It's not as rare as you might think. It's pretty tough and it happens, oh, every few weeks at least? Just off the top of my head, recently we've had:
-a 25 week patient who was taking some chemotherapeutic drug that could be disastrous for the pregnancy, who had been told by her doctor that she couldn't get pregnant anymore
-a 23 week patient who just didn't know she was pregnant
-a 33 week patient who was a surprise sex victim, though I think based on her dating the pregnancy wasn't actually the result of surprise sex, but that was what was in her head

For the 23 and 25 week patients we give them referrals to go to a very few select out of state providers, and encourage them to start calling and making arrangements immediately even if they're not sure about their decision anymore, because there is literally no time to waste if they do decide they still want an abortion, and it's going to be crazy expensive and difficult to access services across the country. I know the 23 weeker was trying to figure it out right away. The 25 weeker was like "I don't know if I can do this anymore" and so we gave her prenatal resources and emphasized that with the drug she'd been on it was incredibly important to get evaluated by a specialist asap. I hope that baby ends up okay.

The 33 week surprise sex victim... ugh. There's literally nowhere to go at that point, not without some severe medical contraindication to continuing a pregnancy, and even then they'd probably just do a c-section and the baby would be in the NICU but would be fine. She refused all resources. We gave her prenatal referrals, which she declined, even as we emphasized that it was as much for her health and safety as for the fetus'. We offered her adoption referrals and information on safe haven laws, which allow her to leave an infant somewhere like a police station, fire station, or hospital, no questions asked. I sincerely hope she at least heard us about those laws because I could see that ending up as a dumpster baby situation.

So yeah. We basically just offer whatever referrals and resources we can and send them on their way. It sucks.

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vortmax
Sep 24, 2008

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Yeah, basically what Anne Whateley said. If you're not sure if a clinic is legit or a CPC, call and ask if they provide abortions. If they give you a straight answer they're a legit clinic; if they just really want you to come in to talk about this in person then they're a CPC. Also, I don't know if this would be helpful but I got started escorting through my undergraduate college's Students for Choice (first degree, pre-nursing school). If you live near a decent-sized college, it might be worth reaching out to them to see if they have some choice-related volunteer opportunities that you could join or at least figure out where to start looking.

Also worth noting that some clinics just don't need escorts because of the geography of the building, street, and parking lot; maybe patients have to drive past protesters but they don't have to actually walk through them, which is about the best you can hope for. So if they tell you no it might be because they're situated well. Ask if they have other volunteer opportunities.

Thanks! I'm a bit outside of the college years, so I never thought to check there. (There's a major university and two smaller colleges in town.) I live in the south and AFAIK there are only two clinics in my state that offer abortions, but one is fairly close (a Planned Parenthood) so I'll check there first.

Thank you for what you do. Seriously. I've had several friends who have needed that help, and people like you make the experience easier.

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jabby
Oct 27, 2010



You've mentioned that you don't think someone's reasons for having a termination should be taken into account. How do you feel about sex-selective abortion or disability screening abortion? Would you have any misgivings if asked to perform these, for example if sex-selection became commonplace and freely available?

Some of the points I've heard against allowing abortion for these reasons that I'd be interested to get your take on are: sex selection is often coerced by male partners and a heavily ingrained cultural mysogyny. Abortion of fetuses with conditions such as Down's syndrome is having an impact on the provision of services for people with the condition as they become rarer, and some feel like it's essentially telling them they'd be better off never having existed.

I should say that I don't want to turn this into any kind of debate, so I don't make any comment as to the validity of those arguments and I'm not going to ask any follow-up questions. I'd ask everyone else to do the same, I'm purely interested in the OPs perspective as a provider.

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If abortion were a Magic: The Gathering card.

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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


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You've mentioned that you don't think someone's reasons for having a termination should be taken into account. How do you feel about sex-selective abortion or disability screening abortion? Would you have any misgivings if asked to perform these, for example if sex-selection became commonplace and freely available?

Some of the points I've heard against allowing abortion for these reasons that I'd be interested to get your take on are: sex selection is often coerced by male partners and a heavily ingrained cultural mysogyny. Abortion of fetuses with conditions such as Down's syndrome is having an impact on the provision of services for people with the condition as they become rarer, and some feel like it's essentially telling them they'd be better off never having existed.

So first I'll say that I'm absolutely against any laws banning abortion for reasons such as sex selection, race selection, or disability/chromosomal anomaly screening. Okay, I'm basically against all laws banning abortion at all, but these in particular place a burden on abortion providers to screen patients for their motivations, which we shouldn't have to do other than to verify that they are confident in their decisions and not being coerced.

Sex-selective abortions are mainly a problem in countries like China where the one-child policy combined with institutional sexism has resulted in badly skewed demographics and millions of men without partners. I've never had a patient tell me she was aborting due to sex here, and if I did I'd probably be taken aback, but I would still support her right to abortion. The deeper structural issues of sexism and misogyny absolutely need to be fought against, but on a larger scale, not with individual abortion patients. At least here, it would be an individual rather than a cultural/demographic issue and I don't think it's my place to get involved or tell a patient that's wrong. Same for race selection. I actually did have a patient, a white woman, tell me she was aborting, at least in part, due to her partner's being Asian. It did turn my stomach and I shuddered to think of what their relationship was like, but did I really want her raising a mixed-race child with that attitude and in that kind of hosed up relationship? Her beliefs might be repugnant but that doesn't mean she didn't have the right to make that decision, or that it wasn't the right decision.

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As for disabilities and chromosomal anomalies, etc. These are much more common reasons than either sex or race for abortion and I've had plenty of patients abort for indications like Down's or spina bifida. I don't have a problem with abortions for these reasons at all. I think parents have the right to assess what they feel they can handle and if they are able to provide for a child with special needs. And I don't think that means that the lives of people with disabilities are less valuable or that they should never have been born or whatever. I do think people who are already born are deserving of rights in ways that embryos and fetuses just aren't. Disability services will guys having sex pictures always be needed, if for no other reason than disabilities extend so far beyond what can be detected prenatally. People can become disabled or develop chronic conditions at any point in life, and their civil rights should absolutely be protected and expanded. That doesn't mean taking away the right to abort pregnancies due to certain diagnoses. Ultimately I see disability rights as a separate issue from abortion.

On a personal note, my mom had an abortion of a wanted pregnancy due to a chromosomal anomaly (not Down's) a few years before she had me. She said it was a very difficult decision, she and my dad knew they would love and provide for that child, and it was also a bit later in the pregnancy (around 20 weeks) so she felt she had already bonded with the fetus and all that. They ultimately decided to have the abortion because they already had three kids and they felt that the care this new baby would need would take too much care and attention away from the kids they already had and that wouldn't be right. My dad thinks that I am so passionate about abortion because if it weren't for that abortion they definitely wouldn't have had me. Also he's a psychiatrist. But anyway, it's kind of a fun rejoinder to anti-choicers who like to say "aren't you glad your mom chose life?" and I get to say "actually, I'm only here because my mom had an abortion..."

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If abortion were a Magic: The Gathering card.

This made me laugh, thank you!

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jabby
Oct 27, 2010



How do you check a woman isn't being coerced into an abortion? If it's anything like my branch of medicine its just a combination of asking them 'are you being coerced?' and your gut instinct.

Do you know or think you've ever had any women who were being coerced? If so, what did you do?

Edit: On an unrelated note, a fun way to annoy anti-choicers is to show them a picture of an embryo and ask them how on Earth they can recognise it as a baby. Then when they spend five minutes detailing its little hands, and perfectly formed eyes, how can anyone not think of that as a human being etc. etc. you reveal its actually a cat embryo. Endless fun.

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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


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How do you check a woman isn't being coerced into an abortion? If it's anything like my branch of medicine its just a combination of asking them 'are you being coerced?' and your gut instinct.

Do you know or think you've ever had any women who were being coerced? If so, what did you do?

Yeah, it's basically just asking them. "Is anyone forcing you to be here?" I like to ask a more open-ended question like "can you tell me about your decision to be here" first and go from there. I haven't knowingly provided services for someone who seemed like they were being coerced and of course we wouldn't perform the abortion for someone who openly disclosed coercion, but then again people will tell you what they think you want to hear, so it's totally possible. And some patients are very closed-off emotionally and refuse to give any more than we demand to be able to provide the service, so it can be hard to know what's really going on with them. But you do what you can and screen as best as you can, and the overwhelming majority of patients are very forthcoming about it being their decision, no question.

Sometimes patients don't want to own that it's their decision, though. I had a patient the other day who started off saying "I don't have a choice" because she had had a few c-sections and her doctor had advised her against being pregnant again. In cases like that it is incumbent on us to advise that they at least consult with their medical providers before choosing abortion -- although it's hard to say to what end because even patients with cancer who can't get chemotherapy while pregnant, their doctors will never outright advise that they have an abortion. But I asked if this patient had spoken to her doctor, and she said no, and I asked if she might want to continue the pregnancy if she was going to be under close medical supervision the whole time, and she said maybe, so I gently suggested that she at least consult with her doctor before proceeding with us. I could see the panic in her eyes and she started talking about how her hands were full with a bunch of kids and she and her husband had too much going on, etc. So of course that's not the same as coercion by an abusive partner or whatever but I think sometimes patients want to hide a little behind being "forced" by circumstance or whatever and when you probe a little it turns out it really is still their decision.

e: oh I forgot, I have had patients, such as young teenagers, who come to us when it's really their parents' decision and not theirs. If it seems obvious to us that it's not the patient's decision -- and we do always speak to the patient alone, even if she's a minor -- we will refuse to see them that day. I think those cases are more common than coercion by a partner. It can lead to some difficult confrontations with parents who don't understand why they have to sign a permission form for their daughter to be able to take a Tylenol at school but they can't force her to have an abortion. Usually in those cases the girls still probably do want to have an abortion but don't think their desires and preferences matter because they're used to their parents making all their medical decisions so they present as indifferent, and when they come back on a different day they tend to own the decision more. Of course, if they presented telling us they absolutely did not want to have an abortion we wouldn't see them.

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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


So looks like I may have to put my money where my mouth is and actually learn how to do abortions myself. This is going to be really, really bad. I predict with not an ounce of facetiousness or hyperbole that in 12-18 months, abortion will be illegal in close to half of U.S. states.

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A reminder that making abortion illegal only limits abortion's safety, not its incidence. Countries where abortion is illegal have roughly the same rate of abortions as everywhere else. Women just die more.

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vortmax
Sep 24, 2008

vorticity (n):
A measure of the local rotation in a fluid flow. In weather analysis and forecasting, it usually refers to the vertical component of rotation and is used most often in reference to synoptic scale or mesoscale weather systems.


Pillbug

Yeah, my first thought when I heard about Kennedy retiring yesterday was "I hope everyone enjoyed marriage equality, reproductive rights, and voting rights while they lasted."

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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


Not to mention workplace protections, environmental protections, consumer protections, and the end of the vestiges of the social safety net. But yeah, abortion for sure is on the chopping block.

I didn't go into this work for job security but drat this loving sucks.

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Aug 3, 2013


I know you said you did escort patients but did you used to have A&T threads about being an escort through the crowd of protesters? I remember there being a semi yearly thread about being one. I liked reading those.

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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


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I know you said you did escort patients but did you used to have A&T threads about being an escort through the crowd of protesters? I remember there being a semi yearly thread about being one. I liked reading those.

I do remember that thread. It wasn't me. I only volunteered as an escort for about a year. I did post another A/T (prob back in like 2010) about working in abortion care.

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I know you said you did escort patients but did you used to have A&T threads about being an escort through the crowd of protesters? I remember there being a semi yearly thread about being one. I liked reading those.

That probably would have been one of mine, I've done a few over the years. I've been escorting for 10 or 11 years at this point.

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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


I was asked a while back (jabby?) about if I'd had patients tell me they were aborting for reasons of sex selection. Well, the other day I had my first one (or, I should say, the first one who was completely open about that being the reason). A south Asian patient who was very clear that she was going to have an abortion if the fetus was female and continue the pregnancy if it were male. She had planned bloodwork with her OB to determine sex around 10 weeks, and was coming to us at only 5 weeks for just a consultation. I have to say I had a really hard time with it, and even though there is no law in my state outlawing sex selection, I did not want to document anywhere in her chart her reasoning. I'm still kind of struggling to process my reaction because it definitely took me aback and I felt much more judgmental than I ever like to feel towards patients. Sure hope if her fetus is male it doesn't wind up being trans!

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I was asked a while back (jabby?) about if I'd had patients tell me they were aborting for reasons of sex selection. Well, the other day I had my first one (or, I should say, the first one who was completely open about that being the reason). A south Asian patient who was very clear that she was going to have an abortion if the fetus was female and continue the pregnancy if it were male. She had planned bloodwork with her OB to determine sex around 10 weeks, and was coming to us at only 5 weeks for just a consultation. I have to say I had a really hard time with it, and even though there is no law in my state outlawing sex selection, I did not want to document anywhere in her chart her reasoning. I'm still kind of struggling to process my reaction because it definitely took me aback and I felt much more judgmental than I ever like to feel towards patients. Sure hope if her fetus is male it doesn't wind up being trans!

I don't understand this at all. If someone was just plain pregnant and didn't want to be, would you provide the service? without judgment?

What is the difference if you ALSO know that they have another reason?

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May 27, 2010


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I don't understand this at all. If someone was just plain pregnant and didn't want to be, would you provide the service? without judgment?

What is the difference if you ALSO know that they have another reason?

I already said I was trying to process and work through my feelings as I recognized myself feeling judgmental and I don’t like to be that way towards patients.

That being said, just not wanting to be pregnant is a universe of difference from wanting to be pregnant if and only if the fetus has a certain characteristic like a penis. Sex-selective abortion is rooted in sexism and policing of gender roles and patriarchy so I am uncomfortable with it. I still support an individual patient’s right to have an abortion for any reason. I was trying to be fully transparent here in disclosing my discomfort because someone had asked about this very question.

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I already said I was trying to process and work through my feelings as I recognized myself feeling judgmental and I don’t like to be that way towards patients.

That being said, just not wanting to be pregnant is a universe of difference from wanting to be pregnant if and only if the fetus has a certain characteristic like a penis. Sex-selective abortion is rooted in sexism and policing of gender roles and patriarchy so I am uncomfortable with it. I still support an individual patient’s right to have an abortion for any reason. I was trying to be fully transparent here in disclosing my discomfort because someone had asked about this very question.

I think your reaction is completely understandable for the reasons you mentioned. Abortion services have done enormous things for female emancipation across the world, and to see it used as a tool of perpetuating patriarchal sexism seems...wrong. And yet one still must provide the services; the patient's reasons aren't the business of the medical provider.

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I don't understand this at all. If someone was just plain pregnant and didn't want to be, would you provide the service? without judgment?

What is the difference if you ALSO know that they have another reason?

The specific reason in question became such a problem in certain countries that telling people the sex of their fetus is restricted to only after a certain point or outright illegal. Abortion is great, but it's also a tool of gynocide elsewhere.

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I already said I was trying to process and work through my feelings as I recognized myself feeling judgmental and I don’t like to be that way towards patients.

That being said, just not wanting to be pregnant is a universe of difference from wanting to be pregnant if and only if the fetus has a certain characteristic like a penis. Sex-selective abortion is rooted in sexism and policing of gender roles and patriarchy so I am uncomfortable with it. I still support an individual patient’s right to have an abortion for any reason. I was trying to be fully transparent here in disclosing my discomfort because someone had asked about this very question.

I din't mean to "judge" you or make your feel dispirited in any way. It was a simple question, I thought.

I feel like, if you are having any thoughts whatsoever, other that "does this woman want to make a baby or not?", - then that is none of your business, and is only tangentially, and unfortunately, your business because of the safety of a medical birth/abortion. Otherwise, they would not come to you in the first place.

Obviously, as a girl, I think sex-selection is silly and mostly detrimental, but it's still not my place to tell anyone whether to be pregnant or not.

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I feel like, if you are having any thoughts whatsoever, other that "does this woman want to make a baby or not?", - then that is none of your business, and is only tangentially, and unfortunately, your business because of the safety of a medical birth/abortion. Otherwise, they would not come to you in the first place.

God forbid OP be a human being with emotions and internally struggle but remain professional to the patient. I'm sure they have screening questions that need to be asked to make sure the patient understands procedure and for safety reasons, such as in case of human trafficking and feeling forced by someone. It is exactly the business of someone providing this kind of treatment to ask questions. This is a huge deal where I live right now because there's been a ton of human trafficking busts and they are finding out these poor souls have been getting pregnant and having to get abortions, acting like everything was fine and it's what they wanted.


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Obviously, as a girl, I think sex-selection is silly and mostly detrimental, but it's still not my place to tell anyone whether to be pregnant or not.

At what point did you read that there was a confrontation to the patient? At no point was it stated that services were not given. You're still being judgmental.

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Obviously, as a girl, I think sex-selection is silly and mostly detrimental, but it's still not my place to tell anyone whether to be pregnant or not.

Please expand upon when you think non-medical sex-selection is not detrimental.

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I don't understand this at all. If someone was just plain pregnant and didn't want to be, would you provide the service? without judgment?

What is the difference if you ALSO know that they have another reason?

Something can be good and moral in one context and bad and immoral in a different context. You are being a dick to the OP because the OP has a moral struggle with something that is morally troubling to a lot of committed feminists. You should maybe think about that.

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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


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I feel like, if you are having any thoughts whatsoever, other that "does this woman want to make a baby or not?"

This is a drastic oversimplification, both of the abortion issue itself and what my concerns are or should be as a medical provider, and suggests a basic lack of empathy (not to mention nuance) about the spectrum of abortion experience. Almost never does it come down to a simple question of "does this patient want to make a baby or not" and frankly I would be a piss-poor nurse if I approached all my patients like that.

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Dirty Deeds Thunderchief
Dec 12, 2006



Man that is one bad poster.

Thank you for your hard work OP. Your dedication is really inspiring and touching and the fact that you would consider, seriously or not, to learn how to provide the service yourself in case it should become illegal is very heartwarming. It's proof that there are so many good people in the country even though every day the people in charge seem to be getting more and more heartless.

I would have been very uncomfortable with the sex-selective situation as well. But obviously from your posts, I can imagine you didn't let any of your discomfort show and did your job with the same professionalism as you always do, regardless of how you felt about it.

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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


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Where have you hidden the bodies?

I realize you're trying to be a dick, but "what do you do with the fetus" is a legit question I get all the time from patients, so I'm going to answer. The products of conception (embryo/fetus or pregnancy sac, placenta if there is one, plus endometrium/uterine lining and associated tissue) are reviewed by the doctor and a tech after the procedure to ensure completeness, and then disposed of in accordance with state law like any other type of medical waste (i.e. incinerated most likely). One state I worked in required that the POC be sent to a lab for external review, which was dumb and redundant since the lab was just going to do the same thing we did in the clinic and not in a timely fashion, and with added costs.


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Man that is one bad poster.

Thank you for your hard work OP. Your dedication is really inspiring and touching and the fact that you would consider, seriously or not, to learn how to provide the service yourself in case it should become illegal is very heartwarming. It's proof that there are so many good people in the country even though every day the people in charge seem to be getting more and more heartless.

I would have been very uncomfortable with the sex-selective situation as well. But obviously from your posts, I can imagine you didn't let any of your discomfort show and did your job with the same professionalism as you always do, regardless of how you felt about it.

Thank you so much for your comments. <3

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I realize you're trying to be a dick, but "what do you do with the fetus" is a legit question I get all the time from patients, so I'm going to answer. The products of conception (embryo/fetus or pregnancy sac, placenta if there is one, plus endometrium/uterine lining and associated tissue) are reviewed by the doctor and a tech after the procedure to ensure completeness, and then disposed of in accordance with state law like any other type of medical waste (i.e. incinerated most likely). One state I worked in required that the POC be sent to a lab for external review, which was dumb and redundant since the lab was just going to do the same thing we did in the clinic and not in a timely fashion, and with added costs.

Has a patient ever asked if they could be buried or cremated with the ashes being returned to them? Especially anyone having a wanted baby that was not able to be carried to term for some reason. Would that ever be something you could consider doing? Maybe not possible in the state where the external lab examination is required, but in one where you do the disposal?

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Something can be good and moral in one context and bad and immoral in a different context. You are being a dick to the OP because the OP has a moral struggle with something that is morally troubling to a lot of committed feminists. You should maybe think about that.


Okay wait, no. Something cannot be bad and immoral and also good and moral ydepending on what YOU think. That was my point.

Honestly, I don't get the hate for this at ALL. I was NOT being a dick to the OP. I understand that people have their own "feelings" etc. but if you are a legitimate physician, there should literally be no decision other than "check one:
[]Want's abortion
[X]Does not want abortion

And the number of women who are legitimately being forced to be surrogates/baby slaves in the united states is about .00001 percent of the young women who just need it to be done so they can live a better life. (and they can't do that without the SUBTLE judgment that is quite clear here)

It's upsetting for such a liberal place.
ON something awful, it is absolutely okay to have an abortion as long as:


You were raped,
The dad is also your dad ewww,
The dad is your uncle,
Your like Totally dirt poor,
You would be kicked out of your family,
It will kill you,

But it's still totally a "moral" decision otherwise?

Bullshit. Someone's body = their choice. PERIOD. I thought we decided this in like 1972? I'm grossed out by the last posts.

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Okay wait, no. Something cannot be bad and immoral and also good and moral ydepending on what YOU think. That was my point.

Honestly, I don't get the hate for this at ALL. I was NOT being a dick to the OP. I understand that people have their own "feelings" etc. but if you are a legitimate physician, there should literally be no decision other than "check one:
[]Want's abortion
[X]Does not want abortion

And the number of women who are legitimately being forced to be surrogates/baby slaves in the united states is about .00001 percent of the young women who just need it to be done so they can live a better life. (and they can't do that without the SUBTLE judgment that is quite clear here)

It's upsetting for such a liberal place.
ON something awful, it is absolutely okay to have an abortion as long as:


You were raped,
The dad is also your dad ewww,
The dad is your uncle,
Your like Totally dirt poor,
You would be kicked out of your family,
It will kill you,

But it's still totally a "moral" decision otherwise?

Bullshit. Someone's body = their choice. PERIOD. I thought we decided this in like 1972? I'm grossed out by the last posts.

Lol nice meltdown.

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Hyperlynx
Sep 13, 2015



Holy loving poo poo, shut up. You are both misunderstanding each other, and your argument is contributing nothing. Just drop it.

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DoggPickle
Jan 16, 2004

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Holy loving poo poo, shut up. You are both misunderstanding each other, and your argument is contributing nothing. Just drop it.

It's not a meltdown and I'ts not a misunderstanding. I appreciate every single person that would brave such a situation, particularly in the United States, but in the end, I'm a scientific and logical person, and I believe in laws and civil rights!

There should be no other question whatsoever, at an abortion provider than "do you want an abortion right now?" yes or no?

I agree that the OP sounds like they have acquitted themselves with professionalism and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, but even the questions existing at this point in time in this thread are loving crazy?!

"does this woman WANT TO MAKE A BABY OR NOT" should be your ONLY possible question. What the gently caress post-human-rights-bullshit is anything that would even disagree with this? The 1% of people who are being forced against their will? I tend to believe that women have brains and should be able to decide these things for themselves. All of this empathy bullshit is a bunch of dudes and secretly religious women trying to create extenuating circumstances so that their brains will allow them to be simultaneously pro-choice and still a bag of dicks.

You would be a piss-poor nurse if that was your main question?? Ridiculous. A nurse doesn't need empathy except in extraordinary conditions. In 99% of cases, you are just the random annoying test between a patient and a doctor and you take our blood pressure and heart rate and point at things until we lay down and wait for the doctor (who to your credit, is not any better at anything than the nurse)

"top rated sex games This is a drastic oversimplification, both of the abortion issue itself and what my concerns are or should be as a medical provider, and suggests a basic lack of empathy (not to mention nuance) about the spectrum of abortion experience. Almost never does it come down to a simple question of "does this patient want to make a baby or not" and frankly I would be a piss-poor nurse if I approached all my patients like that

That's crap. The only thing that matters is if the patient wants to be doing what they are doing, and anything beyond that is YOU using your unwanted medical power to judge and influence their outcomes. You are a piss-poor nurse if you don't give your patients the same quality of customer service that we could expect from say,, Best Buy. Oh wait, even your rich customers BARELY have a choice, and your poor customers have you and only you at best, so they have no expectation of customer service whatsoever and ZERO ability to go anywhere else.

At least when the people at Best Buy are being dicks about your phone charger, you can at least try to find a walmart or target or something.

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Tamarillo
Aug 6, 2009


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Ridiculous. A nurse doesn't need empathy except in extraordinary conditions.

Beep boop thank goodness you are not a nurse

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BadSamaritan
May 2, 2008

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What the heck. Here’s a hint- it’s good patient care to view a person holistically. Helping a patient sort through complicated emotions and social situations to make decisions about their own care is part of being a care provider. Abortion is a clear choice for some people and not so clear for others, and a provider has to be sensitive to that.

Never mind, a nurse or physician (or lab tech, or anyone working in health care) is a person and has a their own reactions to things- they are not health care dispensing units, and cannot be good and effective people if they fully shut themselves off from that. Jfc.

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Ancillary Character
Jul 25, 2007
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That's crap. The only thing that matters is if the patient wants to be doing what they are doing, and anything beyond that is YOU using your unwanted medical power to judge and influence their outcomes. You are a piss-poor nurse if you don't give your patients the same quality of customer service that we could expect from say,, Best Buy. Oh wait, even your rich customers BARELY have a choice, and your poor customers have you and only you at best, so they have no expectation of customer service whatsoever and ZERO ability to go anywhere else.


"I want to be euthanized because I have a fractured leg. I'm the patient, ergo the customer and always right, so you have to do exactly as I say. "

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Aug 19, 2008

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It's not a meltdown and I'ts not a misunderstanding. I appreciate every single person that would brave such a situation, particularly in the United States, but in the end, I'm a scientific and logical person, and I believe in laws and civil rights!

There should be no other question whatsoever, at an abortion provider than "do you want an abortion right now?" yes or no?

I agree that the OP sounds like they have acquitted themselves with professionalism and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, but even the questions existing at this point in time in this thread are loving crazy?!

"does this woman WANT TO MAKE A BABY OR NOT" should be your ONLY possible question. What the gently caress post-human-rights-bullshit is anything that would even disagree with this? The 1% of people who are being forced against their will? I tend to believe that women have brains and should be able to decide these things for themselves. All of this empathy bullshit is a bunch of dudes and secretly religious women trying to create extenuating circumstances so that their brains will allow them to be simultaneously pro-choice and still a bag of dicks.

You would be a piss-poor nurse if that was your main question?? Ridiculous. A nurse doesn't need empathy except in extraordinary conditions. In 99% of cases, you are just the random annoying test between a patient and a doctor and you take our blood pressure and heart rate and point at things until we lay down and wait for the doctor (who to your credit, is not any better at anything than the nurse)

"nude beach family pics This is a drastic oversimplification, both of the abortion issue itself and what my concerns are or should be as a medical provider, and suggests a basic lack of empathy (not to mention nuance) about the spectrum of abortion experience. Almost never does it come down to a simple question of "does this patient want to make a baby or not" and frankly I would be a piss-poor nurse if I approached all my patients like that

That's crap. The only thing that matters is if the patient wants to be doing what they are doing, and anything beyond that is YOU using your unwanted medical power to judge and influence their outcomes. You are a piss-poor nurse if you don't give your patients the same quality of customer service that we could expect from say,, Best Buy. Oh wait, even your rich customers BARELY have a choice, and your poor customers have you and only you at best, so they have no expectation of customer service whatsoever and ZERO ability to go anywhere else.

At least when the people at Best Buy are being dicks about your phone charger, you can at least try to find a walmart or target or something.

It's a shame your mom didn't abort you.

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boquiabierta
May 27, 2010


This is the problem (one of many) with capitalist, profit-driven healthcare. People think patients are customers, healthcare providers are retail associates, and going to the doctor is the same as going to Best Buy. It doesn’t loving work like that.

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A nurse doesn't need empathy except in extraordinary conditions. In 99% of cases, you are just the random annoying test between a patient and a doctor and you take our blood pressure and heart rate and point at things until we lay down and wait for the doctor (who to your credit, is not any better at anything than the nurse)

You know what's a really good way to make your point is to denigrate and insult my entire profession as mindless automatons.

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Dirty Deeds Thunderchief
Dec 12, 2006



I'm not even seeing where this whole rant is coming from. The OP didn't ask anything but the standard questions to determine if the patient wanted to have the baby or not. Any thoughts about the reasoning behind it (the sex selection) and OP's feelings about it were private and not disclosed to the patient at all, NOR would it affect how the OP gave care to the patient, NOR would it stop OP from providing the service requested if that's what the patient winds up choosing. So what the gently caress is the problem? Do you actually expect all physicians and healthcare workers to go through a checklist of yes/no questions and perform procedures with literally 0 personal thoughts in their head? That's not how humans work and I'm increasingly wondering if you know how they do.

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Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
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Yeah this whole thing is completely baffling to me. She did exactly what you would want her to do. There's zero reason for a huge meltdown. Sorry about your thread, OP, this is weird as hell.

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Hyperlynx
Sep 13, 2015



OP, any more interesting stories that you're able to share? I can't think of any good questions to ask

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PopeCrunch
Feb 13, 2004

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Right like I can't understand why this is a Thing. If someone was in for an abortion and happened to say 'ha this is actually my 14th, i just really like the joke-a-day calendar on the receptionist's desk' you would be a sociopath to not think 'holy poo poo' to yourself. The patient experience wasn't impacted in any way, I don't think we need ~brain police~ to grill a care provider because they had a nagging thought that they didn't reveal to the patient.

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May 1, 2012

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quote:

DoggPickle posted:
A nurse doesn't need empathy except in extraordinary conditions. In 99% of cases, you are just the random annoying test between a patient and a doctor and you take our blood pressure and heart rate and point at things until we lay down and wait for the doctor (who to your credit, is not any better at anything than the nurse

Imagine being this stupid in public and somehow not dying of humiliation

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