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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Butt first, let's
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Yeah, I totally tuned out. I actually had no idea last night was the BB finale and I haven't watched any the episodes after Angela's eviction. I just deleted the finale last night to save some space on my DVR because I didn't feel like watching it on my communal tv. I'm probably not gonna bother with the episodes I missed because they're usually just padded clip shows but I'll probably watch the finale online when I watch the Survivor premiere, probably this weekend. Meh. It feels like Big Brother kind of killed my interest in Survivor too, but its probably just that I'm used to the BB Finale/Survivor Premiere pairing so without that Survivor is just another show on my DVR.

I like Kaycee more than Tyler so from a personal perspective I'm glad she won, and I think she's a solid winner.
She played hard, had a bunch of big wins including arguably the most important with the Hacker, and seemed to play a better social game than Tyler in not burning jurors. Lowkey Kaycee actually seemed to be doing a good job with jurors like Haleigh and JC but I wasn't watching enough to really be able to say. And I didn't see the finale so I don't KNOW that's what hurt Tyler, but I'd assume it played a role.

Plus it means I won't have to get bogged down in "Tyler is one of the greatest winners ever" debates and he just slots in the Vanessa/Paul/Danielle "almost" tier. Him losing in the finale actually kind of strengthens my personal evaluation of him, which is that he compares closely the Califore boys (minus the toxic furious hatred of women). I'll have to actually watch the Jury vote to make that convincingly but Cody always felt like a truer comp to Tyler to me than Derrick. Or Dan or Vanessa or Paul or whoever. Its just that there was no Derrick to overshadow Tyler/Cody and instead of a Victoria there was a solid if unspectacular player in Kaycee.

I still do agree that the Jury Phase was a ton of fun. That's always my favorite part of the season anyway and it delivered with a ton of action and crazy. And FOUTTE shooting themselves in the foot was amusing until it just kind of got sad. But it was still probably better longer than BB19. BB18 had the late Paulie fall so it might have been better. BB17 is the last season I was really in it to the end to see if Vanessa could maneuver her way through.

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SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

Somebody call Totoro

Don't go sour on Survivor! The premier was really good and I think this season will be a lot of fun! Plus John Morrison is back on your television!

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Stirdog
Oct 11, 2012


I'll throw my thanks to STAC Goat as well. Hopefully we see you back next year. This thread is always my main source of recaps and speculation.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Butt first, let's
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This time of year I'm always "eh, I'm burned out, that wasn't fun, maybe I won't do it next year." But next April/May when the first whiffs of spring are in the air and I'm watching some baseball I'll think if BB again and get that fire back. Its what happens every year. Its just part of my summer routine now.

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Don't go sour on Survivor! The premier was really good and I think this season will be a lot of fun! Plus John Morrison is back on your television!

I'll definitely get around to it by the weekend at the latest. I'm just always a little slower to get into Survivor and without the BB Finale as the bookend I totally forgot about it, had other things I wanted to do/watch yesterday (and tonight), so need to get around to it. But I'm 90% sure I will.

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Professor Shark
May 22, 2012



Pillbug

I think I speak for everyone when I say that I just cannot wait for Celebrity Big Brother

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Apr 27, 2003


Lipstick Apathy

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I think I speak for everyone when I say that I just cannot wait for Celebrity Big Brother

Not sure if this is sarcastic or not, but season one of CBB was more watchable than most reagular BB seasons. I am definitely stoked for season 2

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Teek
Aug 7, 2006

I can't wait to entertain you.


Sadly, apparently Bayleigh lost the baby. Per a video she and Swaggy posted, she found out she was pregnant in the house and later lost the baby when she was in jury. One reason she and he were apparently cagey about it during interviews after the finale.

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Robnoxious
Feb 17, 2004



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Sadly, apparently Bayleigh lost the baby. Per a video she and Swaggy posted, she found out she was pregnant in the house and later lost the baby when she was in jury.
A Hollywood miracle!

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Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006


Apparently Kaitlyn posted a video of her and Tyler in bed without this permission?

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


You made me look and I see a video of her in bed with Brett, but he's talking to the camera so its not exactly "without permission." But I dunno.

This was a very horny cast. God bless.

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Oct 20, 2006

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i skipped this and last season, was this one worse than bb15?

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Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006


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i skipped this and last season, was this one worse than bb15?

Nope.

It was just boring because there were two major alliances and one alliance won everything (3 people had 19 comp wins) while the other was totally incompetent

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SweetJahasus
Dec 23, 2005

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The first half was one of the best first halves of BB ever, but the second half was abysmal and I know that I, along with a lot of the other regulars in this thread, tuned out around the time of the buy-back.

BB19 was pretty bad all-around, and I think is rather widely lauded as one of the worst seasons we've had between the poor pacing due to "twists" and a generally unlikable cast.

I may get some push-back here but IMO BB15, for all its faults, was a pretty drat entertaining season! The racist bullshit was gross and left a stain, but if you can carve that bit out and just look at those folks as villains, it's one of the better seasons in the last handful of years. BB16-17 were a great run though, and I wish they could get back to that level of show. Early season BB20 had the potential to maybe even surpass all-stars as one of the best seasons ever but the incompetence of Foutte really just sank all hopes of that.

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Max
Nov 30, 2002



Yeah the only really good part of BB19 was Julie reading the votes at the end, which doesn't really make up for everything you need to watch to get to that point.

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Faustian Bargain
Apr 12, 2014



I liked BB18. BB18's big problem was Paulie, especially the stuff they didn't show. There are always horrible things they didn't show, but Paulie was just too much.

BB19 was completely ruined by Jody being around for far too long. Paul losing twice the same way was hilarious though.

I hate that they always need to bring in toxic as hell people just to make things "interesting".

This season was just boring garbage once Fess/Hay realized how stupid they were after it was way too late.

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ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

Yeah BB18 was fine outside of Paulie and his edit. BB19 almost made me quit since it felt like all that was wrong with BB18 dialed to 11. I quit BB20 halfway probably because of the fatigue that had built up from the previous season. Made it from BB5 to halfway through BB20.

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Bucswabe
May 2, 2009


I think this season has made me realize that the entertainment of Big Brother is pretty much entirely fed by moments of catharsis, and withtout it the show flatlines into extreme tedium.

There were so many moments for catharsis in this season - with Level 6 practically custom designed to root against. But basically every cathartic moment was robbed by FOUTTE being the worst alliance in history.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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check the feeds.


Yeah, its just kind of a natural narrative thing. We want to see mistakes get paid for, bad behavior get punished, and see people play their way out of situations. Its what I wanted from Tyler all season and we never got it. He wasn't vile or toxic. I don't think anyone hates the guy. But all season he was making mistakes but continuing to cruise without ever actually having to pay or play his way out of it. That's just unsatisfying. There was a fair amount of satisfying narrative from FOUTTE (and before them Winston) paying for their stupidity but then it just kept going and going and never flipped. And that's just no fun unless you're rooting hard for one side over the other.

Its why I think we have this weird satisfied but not feeling for Kaycee's win. Or at least I do. I don't love Kaycee and I don't hate Tyler. Its just that I went 3 months waiting for SOMEONE to make Tyler pay for his mistakes and this is the only time it happened.

BB18 is interesting to me in that regard because I actually find everything post Paulie completely forgettable and before that Paulie and his crew had a stranglehold over the game and I remember tuning out really early in. But we got Paulie's downfall and we got it in massive, dramatic fashion. So that leaves a satisfying feeling about the season in the mind even though I doubt any of us would want to rewatch much of it besides those 2 weeks of Paulie's fall.

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I may get some push-back here but IMO BB15, for all its faults, was a pretty drat entertaining season! The racist bullshit was gross and left a stain, but if you can carve that bit out and just look at those folks as villains, it's one of the better seasons in the last handful of years. BB16-17 were a great run though, and I wish they could get back to that level of show. Early season BB20 had the potential to maybe even surpass all-stars as one of the best seasons ever but the incompetence of Foutte really just sank all hopes of that.

I think its easy to forget that the first few weeks of BB15 were a bunch of house flips and dramatic blindsides of Aaryn and her crew and Elissa made a valiant run against Amanda and her crew mid season including a heroic Wall comp performance. But I think BB15's problem is that it wasn't just one really toxic, racist villain. Aaryn gave way to Amanda and Amanda gave way to Andy. It was just villains taking down villains in "lesser of two evils" battles to rise to become the new person you want to see taken down and that's not narratively satisfying at all. Plus, its just toxic poo poo from start to finish.

Plus Aaryn never got her true narrative downfall. All her friends went down for her poo poo but then she just got protected and accepted by Helen and Amanda even though she never changed her behavior or stopped saying racist poo poo. She ends up getting her downfall from Julie Chen, and while that was satisfying to see it wasn't the same as when its part of the game.

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Mar 6, 2015

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I'm convinced we'll never have an amazing season again if we keep on with the 100-day format. BB20 is probably top five and the best since BB17 but the back half of the game was unbearable at times.

Big Brother Canada's 70 day length is good and the previous season was interesting the entire time.

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Faustian Bargain
Apr 12, 2014



I think everyone season starts out with fun stuff and then they just kind of drop things. Someone different should've been in the robot every week. Have nots should be more of a big deal. There should be x-o-tards all season and not just in the first couple weeks. Give people rewards for completing tasks like eating something gross or doing exercise, like the 1000 soccer goals thing from a few seasons ago.

Do fun/funny stuff instead of game-breaking garbage like the hacker comp.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


Twists are what they are. Sometimes they hurt, sometimes they don't. We can get on the Hacker twist for ruining Haleigh's HOH and bailing out LvT at the most crucial point of the season but it could have just as easily screwed Angela's HOH, bailed out FOUTTE, and knocked Tyler out. And then that house probably would have gone into chaos.

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Eltoasto
Aug 26, 2002

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Maybe it's just what I am remembering, but it seem like it's a good idea to keep everyone from forming teams for the first couple weeks. They had cliques, coach teams, etc and that at least mostly keeps alliances from forming really early. It sucks when alliances are formed before the feeds are even on, or before people really know each other outside of stereotypes.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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check the feeds.


I think majorities forming is kind of impossible to avoid. Its just common sense and its always happened in BB. Like, BB2 was basically the house vs Chilltown. BB3 was like Roddy and Lisa's cool kids group vs Danielle's "misfits" group. BB4 was the house vs the exes/stooges. BB5 was house vs Horsemen. It just happens because it makes sense because numbers are your protection against the HOH screwing you.

But I do agree that I think the cliques help protect against that a little. Its similar to the tribe swap in Survivor. It shakes things up and forces some extra bonds and lines to form which keeps the sides from hardening too much like they did with Level Six this season. Like, what if Rachel and Brett had been on a team with Fessy and Haleigh and just forced to actually factor them in a bit and not ignore them for the first month of the game? Maybe it changes nothing but maybe its the thing that is needed for Rachel to float away or turn when she's in trouble? Or it just makes it a little harder to go directly after your targets.

I don't know if there's an evidence that its true. BB18 was the last fluid season and it was a teams season. BB14 was kind of fluid? But BB11 was a very hard house divide. So I dunno.

But its probably the best way I can think of to try and artificially force a more fluid house. Which is the main cause of bad games. Fans get so excited for divided houses in an effort to repeat the magic of BB6 but it just ends up creating predictable game and puts all the drama on HOH. And if one side dominates its all over.

That or just steal from BB2 and do "America's HOH" to try and shake poo poo up and scare the boring majority. But trusting America to vote has always been a sketchy proposition. Still, this season probably would have ended up with Tyler and someone on the block which would have been a trip, and last season Paul probably would have gone up which would have shook the house.

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That or just steal from BB2 and do "America's HOH" to try and shake poo poo up and scare the boring majority. But trusting America to vote has always been a sketchy proposition. Still, this season probably would have ended up with Tyler and someone on the block which would have been a trip, and last season Paul probably would have gone up which would have shook the house.

Last year this would have resulted in Jess and Cody trading off HoH's until endgame. Let's just pump the brakes on this America deciding poo poo for a second here.

(That said, it'd probably still be better than BB19 actually was)

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Oct 23, 2008


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Twists are what they are. Sometimes they hurt, sometimes they don't. We can get on the Hacker twist for ruining Haleigh's HOH and bailing out LvT at the most crucial point of the season but it could have just as easily screwed Angela's HOH, bailed out FOUTTE, and knocked Tyler out. And then that house probably would have gone into chaos.

The Hacker twist favored the majority though, there just happened to be a minor loophole where a minority that had exactly one less vote could potentially use it to their advantage if the stars aligned perfectly (which they nearly did).

The flaws with the twist are more obvious in the second week where FOUTTE was down by 2; had L6 won HoH that week FOUTTE had no chance to save themselves, whereas L6 were able to lose the HoH and still get out a FOUTTE member out.

Most of the modern twists (Roadkill, BotB, Hacker) favor the majority in a similar way and often end up solidifying a longer term big alliance.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


While it's true that comps like that favor the majority, L6 weren't a dominant majority. They were a minority the first couple of weeks which is why they needed Kaitlyn's antics. They lost Winston and Rachel early. And Sam proved shaky later on. It was a pretty balanced numbers game most of the way and L6 sucked at the big wins when it was, but FOUTTE kept wasting their wins.

Even that week Kaycee won Hacker it was arguably 4 vs the house. It's tough to know if JC or Sam would have bailed L6 out. Some fans even thought Brett wouldn't (I never bought into that). Kaycee just got the clutch win.

But like it's the same principles as HoH. It favors the majority but it gives the minority a chance. It just backfires when the minority win HOH and don't need the aecond chance.

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Last year this would have resulted in Jess and Cody trading off HoH's until endgame. Let's just pump the brakes on this America deciding poo poo for a second here.

(That said, it'd probably still be better than BB19 actually was)

Jess wasn't actually any good at comps, was she? The couple of episodes of Amazing Race i saw were even her sucking at comps, pouting, and the Cody aoloing it.

Who knows what would have happened but assuming Paul goes up even if he doesnt go home it would have shaken some of his minions rssolve in hjm since a lot of hjs pitch was "I'm loved, trust me". And it might have been ended up being Cody or Jesa on the other side and even if they don't go it was never strictly Paul pushing them as targets. He stoked the flames but most of the house hated those assholes for many reasons.

But like it's unpredictable and i dont know that it's a good idea. But it does open the possibility of getting in the majority's head that if they want to be liked or not fall victim to another popularity contest they should move. Thats partly what happened in BBCan2 (But also, the right people won HOH).

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TyrantWD
Nov 6, 2010


Sam and JC were effectively a part of L6, so the numbers were definitely on their side for most of the game. Sam only deviated from what Tyler wanted to do when she threw a pity vote out for Bayleigh. The season could have been great if FOUTTE weren't complete idiots. The turning point to me wasn't the second hacker competition, but the week of the first hacker competition where Bayleigh thought the other side of the house, aware of her power to replace an HoH's nominations, would let her keep that power. That to me was more stupid than anything Rockstar, Fessy or Haleigh did, and basically sealed the fate of that side of the house.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Even with Sam and JC the numbers were pretty even most of the first half and FOUTTE had the edge to start. We forget that they took out Rachel and Winston early to keep things even (and Kaitlyn after she had pretty much flipped). The thing was they should have done more damage because L6 couldn't win poo poo but Kaitlyn wasted two weeks getting out Steve and Swaggy and then Fessy wasted his week. Bayleigh and Haleigh nearly wasted theirs too. The sides were fairly even for a long time but FOUTTE kept screwing it up because they couldn't correctly read the numbers and always thought they had more options than they did.

Bayleigh definitely blew an opportunity the week she went out. The reality is FOUTTE had as much as a dozen opportunities to flip things, do damage, or get the big picture but they each took turns blowing it every time.

Sam also voted against Tyler with the Haleigh/Scottie vote and was actively talking about going after him in between before he did some damage control. There was a 3-4 week period where there were she was pretty sketchy but FOUTTE didn't do anything to cultivate that (even as Rockstar recognized the need to) and the circumstances of L6 coming out ahead just made Sam flow back out of ease. Just one of the mamy opportunities they blew.

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Faustian Bargain
Apr 12, 2014



I forgot that the funniest part of this season was Scottie thinking he was on the edge of a showmance with Hayleigh and explaining this to Fess.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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The weird rear end showmance stuff this season is really funny in retrospect.

Bayleigh and Swaggy were keeping theirs a secret but literally everyone knew about it because they spent all their time together, but they keep insisting they were just brother-sister like. Which creeped people out.

Everyone was convinced Kaitlyn and Tyler were a showmance because they were all over each other. Kaitlyn insisted she had a boyfriend and continued to flirt with Brett and emotionally manipulate Fessy and Tyler basically loathed her. But they couldn't keep their hands off each other and spent half their time in bed together.

Fessy and Haleigh got caught under the covers Week 1, Fessy used the POV on Haleigh, and they slept in each other's HOHs and yet no one was actually certain they were a showmance because they bickered so much. Scottie and Brett were so in the dark that they both talked about their interest in Haleigh TO Fessy. I'm not sure even Rockstar and Bayleigh were sure what was going on there.

Angela and Tyler were attached at the hip and openly cuddling in beds for half the season (pretty much as soon as Kaitlyn and Rachel were gone). People were actively cockblocking them and saying "you're showmancing" to them. Even Fessy read it so clearly that he tried to cut a showmance alliance with them. Yet the two of kept doing silly poo poo diving out of bed and transparently hiding it and then made dramatic confessions to people at the end.

The BB20 cast was dumb.

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The BB20 cast was dumb.

The BB20 tl;dr

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