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Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010





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I think he was making a joke about how it was something like the 6th comic titled Ultimates.

ya if you just say the ultimates, there's a lot of things that could be

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I think he was making a joke about how it was something like the 6th comic titled Ultimates.

It's 7am too early for jokes I need coffee

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ya if you just say the ultimates, there's a lot of things that could be

It's sorta appropriate that that title includes some of the best and some of the worst comics published by Marvel.

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Edge & Christian
May 20, 2001

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Honestly, Marvel has done a pretty great job with all of their renumbering and rebooting of making it hard to identify top selling books. It's happened awhile ago, and the first book they really 'killed' was Wolverine. It was a consistent Top 10/20 seller for years through Civil War tie-ins and the Loeb/Bianchi runs and random fill-in arcs and was up in the top 10 with Old Man Logan, and then when Old Man Logan got delayed they went ahead and launched the "new, main" Wolverine book that was supposed to be Jason Aaron's first big "prestige" title, Wolverine: Weapon X. Within six issues it was selling significantly less than either Dark Wolverine (the Daken book that took the 'old' Wolverine numbering) or Wolverine Origins (the supposed b-book) and after just sixteen issues they felt the need to relaunch it as just "Wolverine" with a new #1 even though it was still part of Jason Aaron's Weapon X run.

That book launched big but had also drifted out of the top 20 within six issues, so barely a year later after issue 20 (Marvel was big into doubleshipping books back then, which also seemed to hurt sales) the "A" Wolverine book wasn't in the top 50. So they renumbered the 21st issue as "Wolverine #300" and it bounced back to #14, before immediately dropping back to #43 with the next issue. By the last issue of the renumbered run (#317) the book fell all the way to #62, so they relaunched AGAIN with the 2013 version of Wolverine #1, which yet again had a #1 in the top 5 and a sixth issue wallowing down around #50. After thirteen issues, they relaunched Wolverine foot fetish sex stories yet again in early 2014, the first Wolverine relaunch to not crack 100,000 copies of the first issue, though it was in the top 10. It was another case of it pretty clearly just being the 14th issue of Paul Cornell's run so it was really unclear why it needed to be a #1, and people seemed to realize that. Same story, six months later the book is down in the 50s and has shed 75% of the first issue sales.

That last Wolverine series, the sixth in a little under six years, ended with issue #12 and was replaced by the Death of Wolverine mini-series.

A less extreme version of that seems to have happened to drat near ever single book at Marvel. And honestly with most books at DC that don't have Batman in the title. Taking aside first issues or "milestone issues", the only books that are consistently in the Top 20 comics right now are Slott's Amazing Spider-Man (and even that is dependent on "event" storylines), Batman, Walking Dead, Star Wars, and Jason Aaron's Thor once in awhile.

I think the real takeaway is that direct market fans have been trained to think there's only one [character/team] book that 'matters', so something like Snyder/King Batman is positioned as THE Batman book, and it sells consistently well and blows every other Batbook out of the water. Slott's long run on Spider-Man was "THE" Spider-Man book, and so it outsold everything else by a large margin. Even when Ewing was doing cool Avengers stuff, it was also in the secondary book where Hickman, Waid, etc. were doing the "important" Avengers book.

Things get messy when you can't steer everyone to THE book for a franchise, this has been what has happened with the X-Books pretty consistently for about a decade. Can anyone tell me what was the Flagship X-Men book at any point after Joss Whedon/John Cassaday left Astonishing X-Men? I can't, and there also hasn't been a consistently top-selling X-Men team title since then.

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Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017


How did All-New Wolverine do, out of curiosity?

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How did All-New Wolverine do, out of curiosity?
I'd say as well as any of the Marvel books of the past few years?

11/15 AN Wolverine #1 - 119,786
11/15 AN Wolverine #2 - 55,634 (-53.6%)
12/15 AN Wolverine #3 - 50,990 (- 8.3%)
01/16 AN Wolverine #4 - 49,978 (- 2.0%)
02/16 AN Wolverine #5 - 43,149 (-13.7%)
03/16 AN Wolverine #6 - 44,668 (+ 3.5%)
04/16 AN Wolverine #7 - 38,168 (-14.6%)
05/16 AN Wolverine #8 - 38,242 (+ 0.2%)
06/16 AN Wolverine #9 - 43,545 (+13.9%) (CV2)
07/16 AN Wolverine #10- 38,579 (-11.4%) (CV2)
08/16 AN Wolverine #11- 40,312 (+ 4.5%) (CV2)
09/16 AN Wolverine #12- 35,481 (-12.0%) (CV2)
10/16 AN Wolverine #13- 38,297 (+ 7.9%)
11/16 AN Wolverine #14- 35,437 (- 7.5%)
12/16 AN Wolverine #15- 31,796 (-10.2%)
01/17 AN Wolverine #16- 35,128 (+10.5%)
02/17 AN Wolverine #17- 29,255 (-16.7%)
03/17 AN Wolverine #18- 46,731 (+59.7%)
04/17 AN Wolverine #19- 57,526 (+23.1%)
05/17 AN Wolverine #20- 36,573 (-36.4%)
06/17 AN Wolverine #21- 38,500 (+ 5.2%)
07/17 AN Wolverine #22- 34,610 (-10.1%)
08/17 AN Wolverine #23- 27,867 (-19.5%)
09/17 AN Wolverine #24- 33,140 (+18.9%)
10/17 AN Wolverine #25- 62,286 (+87.9%)
10/17 AN Wolverine #26- 28,499 (- 54.2%)

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I'd say as well as any of the Marvel books of the past few years?

11/15 AN Wolverine #1 - 119,786
11/15 AN Wolverine #2 - 55,634 (-53.6%)
12/15 AN Wolverine #3 - 50,990 (- 8.3%)
01/16 AN Wolverine #4 - 49,978 (- 2.0%)
02/16 AN Wolverine #5 - 43,149 (-13.7%)
03/16 AN Wolverine #6 - 44,668 (+ 3.5%)
04/16 AN Wolverine #7 - 38,168 (-14.6%)
05/16 AN Wolverine #8 - 38,242 (+ 0.2%)
06/16 AN Wolverine #9 - 43,545 (+13.9%) (CV2)
07/16 AN Wolverine #10- 38,579 (-11.4%) (CV2)
08/16 AN Wolverine #11- 40,312 (+ 4.5%) (CV2)
09/16 AN Wolverine #12- 35,481 (-12.0%) (CV2)
10/16 AN Wolverine #13- 38,297 (+ 7.9%)
11/16 AN Wolverine #14- 35,437 (- 7.5%)
12/16 AN Wolverine #15- 31,796 (-10.2%)
01/17 AN Wolverine #16- 35,128 (+10.5%)
02/17 AN Wolverine #17- 29,255 (-16.7%)
03/17 AN Wolverine #18- 46,731 (+59.7%)
04/17 AN Wolverine #19- 57,526 (+23.1%)
05/17 AN Wolverine #20- 36,573 (-36.4%)
06/17 AN Wolverine #21- 38,500 (+ 5.2%)
07/17 AN Wolverine #22- 34,610 (-10.1%)
08/17 AN Wolverine #23- 27,867 (-19.5%)
09/17 AN Wolverine #24- 33,140 (+18.9%)
10/17 AN Wolverine #25- 62,286 (+87.9%)
10/17 AN Wolverine #26- 28,499 (- 54.2%)

What happened in issue 18 where it jumped from 29 thousand to 46 thousand? and again almost doubled its sales at issue 25 only to lose half of them the next issue?

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What happened in issue 18 where it jumped from 29 thousand to 46 thousand? and again almost doubled its sales at issue 25 only to lose half of them the next issue?
18 was the last issue of Enemy of the State II and I think was sort of hinted as being the "conclusion" to the All-New Wolverine book, except the following month they did a line-wide relaunch of the X-Titles (X-Men Blue #1, X-Men Gold #1, Weapon X #1, etc) with some branding that I forget (X-Regenesis?) ANW #19 definitely got a sales bump as a result despite not being renumbered, I don't know if there was an incentive cover scheme or overshipping or something else affecting it or just an assumption that people would want to jump back on board *all* of the X-Books with the new #1s.


Issue #25 was part of "Legacy" and had the lenticular cover and all of the books got an artificial boost/bust with the first/second Legacy issues.

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Can someone give me a quick rundown of everything that's happened in Amazing Spider-Man from about the point where Superior Spider-Man ended? That's roughly where I stopped reading. Might come back now that Slott is finally gone.

Spider-Man became super rich like a cheaper version of tony stark. Then he worked for shield. Then idk, he fought the green goblin again, but for corporate ownership?

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Aug 19, 2006


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Spider-Man became super rich like a cheaper version of tony stark. Then he worked for shield. Then idk, he fought the green goblin again, but for corporate ownership?

And he's still rich going into the new run?

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Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



He was never actually rich, he paid himself a middle management salary out of humility, and so pretty much went back to status quo when the company collapsed.

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Jul 18, 2006

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And he's still rich going into the new run?

No, he's working at the Daily Bugle again as of the end of the Slott run, and the FCBD preview for Spencer's status quo has him searching for a third room-mate with Randy Robinson so they can afford rent. So they're definitely leaning harder on the "schlubby bachelor" thing than they have in quite a few years.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


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Can someone give me a quick rundown of everything that's happened in Amazing Spider-Man from about the point where Superior Spider-Man ended? That's roughly where I stopped reading. Might come back now that Slott is finally gone.
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What happened is that Spider-Man continue the company that Doc Ock started. He became rich and try to use that money for philanthropy. However, during Secret Empire, he had to destroy his company to stop Hydra from using his company to track down political enemies for extermination purposes. There was no other choice in the matter.

Then, he went for the long process of selling his company. This made everyone hate him since he put millions of people out of their jobs. He then slept on Mockingbirds couch. When he ran a company, they were dating. But afterwards they kind of broke up and he was just allowed to stay there until he can get his own place. He tried to get back together with Mary Jane, but it didn't go anywhere.

Then Eddie Brock came back and Flash Thompson became Anti-Venom. At the exact same time, Black Cat lost her criminal empire and turned back into a petty thief.

Spider-Man's fake sister came back, and even though they're not actually related they hung out. She got wrapped up in a CIA conspiracy. It turned into a huge thing that ended in Alien Invasion. The important thing was that Jay Jonas Jameson and Spider-Man had an interview to get knowledge out of Jay Jonah Jameson. At the end of the interview, when Spider-Man went too far and made Jonah Cry by pointing out how he was a lonely sad man who destroyed his own life, Spider-Man revealed the secret identity as Peter Parker to comfort him since they were technically related through Aunt May's marriage, even though Jay Jonah Jameson father had died and Aunt May was a widow again. Jay Jonah Jameson then became his partner and help him fight crime by being his ear to the ground.

Then, the Green Goblin merged with Carnage. The Red Goblin, as he came to be known, found out Spider-Man secret identity. He did so by torturing Jameson. Though, to be fair, Jameson didn't intentionally give away the information: he tried to taunt the Red Goblin and accidentally gave away that Gwen Stacy was Spider-Man's girlfriend and then the Red Goblin pieced it together. Spider-Man fought the Red Goblin and eventually won with the help of literally everybody from Anti-Venom to Silk to Miles Morales to Doc Ock. Flash Thompson died in the fight and Peter gave Doc Ock pardon for his crimes because Doc Ock saved Aunt May ( Doc Ock did that because he once almost married Aunt May and actually did like her).

Robbie Robertson made Peter the new tech editor at The Daily Bugle. Peter got an apartment with one of his employees. Their third roommate is secretly Boomerang.



And that's everything that happened since Superior Spider-Man.

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Apr 6, 2007

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There was that clone saga 1 and a half that brought back Ben Reilly and Kaine too

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And that's everything that happened since Superior Spider-Man.

Thanks. Might actually go back to check out the JJJ interview part, that sounds interesting.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


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There was that clone saga 1 and a half that brought back Ben Reilly and Kaine too

That was where I stopped bothering to read Spidey books

Oh I forgot about that. But I also actually skipped the Clone Conspiracy. It looks really bad and it turned out it was really bad and the series that spun out of it was really bad.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


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Thanks. Might actually go back to check out the JJJ interview part, that sounds interesting.

Go to Spectacular Spider-Man by Chip Zardasky. There's only like 16 issues. Maybe less actually. It's hard to remember cuz it did remembering. I want to say it happened in Issue Number 5. The issue has Jameson and Spider-Man on the cover. You could read that one on its own, but the series overall is pretty good once it gets started.

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What happened is that Spider-Man continue the company that Doc Ock started. He became rich and try to use that money for philanthropy. However, during Secret Empire, he had to destroy his company to stop Hydra from using his company to track down political enemies for extermination purposes. There was no other choice in the matter.

Then, he went for the long process of selling his company. This made everyone hate him since he put millions of people out of their jobs. He then slept on Mockingbirds couch. When he ran a company, they were dating. But afterwards they kind of broke up and he was just allowed to stay there until he can get his own place. He tried to get back together with Mary Jane, but it didn't go anywhere.

Then Eddie Brock came back and Flash Thompson became Anti-Venom. At the exact same time, Black Cat lost her criminal empire and turned back into a petty thief.

Spider-Man's fake sister came back, and even though they're not actually related they hung out. She got wrapped up in a CIA conspiracy. It turned into a huge thing that ended in Alien Invasion. The important thing was that Jay Jonas Jameson and Spider-Man had an interview to get knowledge out of Jay Jonah Jameson. At the end of the interview, when Spider-Man went too far and made Jonah Cry by pointing out how he was a lonely sad man who destroyed his own life, Spider-Man revealed the secret identity as Peter Parker to comfort him since they were technically related through Aunt May's marriage, even though Jay Jonah Jameson father had died and Aunt May was a widow again. Jay Jonah Jameson then became his partner and help him fight crime by being his ear to the ground.

Then, the Green Goblin merged with Carnage. The Red Goblin, as he came to be known, found out Spider-Man secret identity. He did so by torturing Jameson. Though, to be fair, Jameson didn't intentionally give away the information: he tried to taunt the Red Goblin and accidentally gave away that Gwen Stacy was Spider-Man's girlfriend and then the Red Goblin pieced it together. Spider-Man fought the Red Goblin and eventually won with the help of literally everybody from Anti-Venom to Silk to Miles Morales to Doc Ock. Flash Thompson died in the fight and Peter gave Doc Ock pardon for his crimes because Doc Ock saved Aunt May ( Doc Ock did that because he once almost married Aunt May and actually did like her).

Robbie Robertson made Peter the new tech editor at The Daily Bugle. Peter got an apartment with one of his employees. Their third roommate is secretly Boomerang.



And that's everything that happened since Superior Spider-Man.

FYI for curious readers, this is a great summary but keep in mind that it covers multiple Spidey books, not just Slott's. Even if you didn't like Slott's take, I'd recommend giving Chip Zdarsky's sex pictures for kids Peter Parker a shot, the plotting is a little broad but the dialogue is sharp and it's legitimately pretty funny. A lot of the stuff about JJJ and Peter's sister is from there.

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Nov 8, 2016

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Thanks. Might actually go back to check out the JJJ interview part, that sounds interesting.

Oh hell yeah do that. It’s not written by Slott at all.

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FYI for curious readers, this is a great summary but keep in mind that it covers multiple Spidey books, not just Slott's. Even if you didn't like Slott's take, I'd recommend giving Chip Zdarsky's stormy daniels porn tube Peter Parker a shot, the plotting is a little broad but the dialogue is sharp and it's legitimately pretty funny. A lot of the stuff about JJJ and Peter's sister is from there.

Where's the bit with MJ from? I can't believe they're still teasing it after all these years instead of going all in or dropping completely already.

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Go to Spectacular Spider-Man by Chip Zardasky. There's only like 16 issues. Maybe less actually. It's hard to remember cuz it did remembering. I want to say it happened in Issue Number 5. The issue has Jameson and Spider-Man on the cover. You could read that one on its own, but the series overall is pretty good once it gets started.

Zdarsky's Spectacular Spider-Man, to me at least, feels like the Spider-Man book for people who like the classic style of stories and don't want to get weighed down by recent long serialized plots. They do recaps when necessary but outside of Theresa showing up there wasn't anything crazy deep continuity that wasn't part of a well known story Spider-Man fans would know about.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


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Where's the bit with MJ from? I can't believe they're still teasing it after all these years instead of going all in or dropping completely already.

That was in Amazing Spider-Man. I want to say was around 800. Likely issue like 792 or something.

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Also, I forgot to mention how Doc Ock came back from the dead. Ben Reilly was cloned and tortured by the jackal. And then he became the new Jackal. And started a company that offered to cure people of any disease. What he was really doing was making clones. And then basically keeping them on a leash through medication they needed to not dissolve. He clone Doc Ock during this time. The little spider robot that Doc Ock made in spider-verse then perfectly transferred doc ock's Consciousness into clone body. But this new clone only remembers up to the moment when Horizon Labs was destroyed and the events of spider-verse. So he has not learned his lesson and did not become a good guy. Spider-Man and The Jackal fight and in the process all the Clones get doused in medication that will permanently allow them to avoid cellular degeneration. Doc Ock also makes himself a new body that gives himself all the powers of Peter Parker. The Rhino, Ned Leeds, The enforcers, and Doc Ock are all back from the dead.

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Can't wait for Nick Spencer to make Spider-Man a goblin.

I've never read Spider-Man but from watching the movies and picking up on stuff over the years, have they never done one where Peter is given the goblin formula and goes batty for a bit? Seems like something they would have gotten to in the 80s.

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I've never read Spider-Man but from watching the movies and picking up on stuff over the years, have they never done one where Peter is given the goblin formula and goes batty for a bit? Seems like something they would have gotten to in the 80s.

Given his origin Spider-Man and then the whole symbiote thing has always treated his abilities as a pseudo-curse, so trying to make himself more powerful with genetic manipulation is pretty out of character, he's fine with technological advantages though.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


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I've never read Spider-Man but from watching the movies and picking up on stuff over the years, have they never done one where Peter is given the goblin formula and goes batty for a bit? Seems like something they would have gotten to in the 80s.

In the 90s after Aunt May had a heart attack, Spider-Man went crazy and webbed himself up in a cocoon. When he came out, he said Peter Parker was dead and that he was now The Spider. He then ran around making insane monologue that would make Todd McFarlane blush. He snapped out of it shortly after meeting Ben Reilly.

Bonus fact: there is an amazing scene that was unintentionally funny where Mary Jane walked in on Spider-Man in the Cocoon and just walked right out of the room. It was supposed to be like intense but instead it made me laugh out loud.

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No, he's working at the Daily Bugle again as of the end of the Slott run, and the FCBD preview for Spencer's status quo has him playing with pussy videos searching for a third room-mate with Randy Robinson so they can afford rent. So they're definitely leaning harder on the "schlubby bachelor" thing than they have in quite a few years.

Are we far out from it enough yet that homages to the Howard Mackie run are a Spidey deep cut?

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Are we far out from it enough yet that homages to the Howard Mackie run are a Spidey deep cut?

Definitely since I have no idea what you're talking about

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Are we far out from it enough yet that homages to the Howard Mackie run are a Spidey deep cut?

Let's finally tie a bow on Senator Ward, The Man Made of Stale Gum.

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Definitely since I have no idea what you're talking about

Mary Jane is a rich and famous supermodel at the start of the run and Peter was employed in this high-tech R&D company with other geniuses, but they were keen on making Peter poor and single again, so Peter loses his job, MJ is seemingly killed when her stalker blows up her plane, then her agent absconds with all their money, so Aunt May moves back into her old house in Queens, Peter is evicted from his penthouse and ends up sleeping rough (where his costume and webshooters are stolen by a passerby and eventually sold to Jameson) until Robbie Robertson arranges for him to move into a swinging bachelor pad with his son, Randy.

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What's this on Peter's fake sister?

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May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


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What's this on Peter's fake sister?

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That page actually explains how it's recently established that she actually is his sister.
But that's such a stupid comic book double retcon sentence:

quote:

During her adult life, the machinations of Kingpin and Mentallo made it seem like Teresa's belief that she was Richard and Mary Parker's daugther [sic] was the result of Mentallo's manipulations.[2]

But Teresa seems cool. At least in the Zdarsky run, I don't really read Bendis, so I don't even know if she showed up.

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Teresa comes from a Mark Waid OGN where it ends with her and Peter coming the conclusion that they were in fact not siblings. But the reader sees a coda at the end that pretty much tells you they are siblings. I don’t think anyone in the world ever thought this would be brought up again but Zdarsky brought her back in his run and they finally discover that she really is his sister. Between that, the Jameson stuff, and Spider-Man time traveling back and ruining his younger life in record time it’s been quite a eventful and really fun run.

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Mary Jane is a rich and famous supermodel at the start of the run and Peter was employed in this high-tech R&D company with other geniuses, but they were keen on making Peter poor and single again, so Peter loses his job, MJ is seemingly killed when her stalker blows up her plane, then her agent absconds with all their money, so Aunt May moves back into her old house in Queens, Peter is evicted from his penthouse and ends up sleeping rough (where his costume and webshooters are stolen by a passerby and eventually sold to Jameson) until Robbie Robertson arranges for him to move into a swinging bachelor pad with his son, Randy.

Right at the end of your summary is where I dropped out of comics.

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Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


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Right at the end of your summary is where I dropped out of comics.

You mean you missed the part where Obsorn uses drugged toothpaste to compel Peter to have dreams where he's the Green Goblin?!

I don't remember if that was before or after this fake Goblin showed up periodically menacing Liz Allen and it wasn't clear who it was, but it's played up as a big mystery even though there aren't really any clues, then it turned out to be a clone of Harry who instantly melts when Peter unmasks him.

There was also a bit where Peter doctors some of his photos to trick Jameson into believing his son, real American hero astronaut John Jameson, is actually Spider-Man, which doesn't go anywhere that I can recall.

(I remember a lot of this stuff because these were the first Spider-Man comics I read - I enjoyed JRJR's art on them, particularly the way he drew Venom.)

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Lobok
Jul 13, 2006



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You mean you missed the part where Obsorn uses drugged toothpaste to compel Peter to have dreams where he's the Green Goblin?!

Yeah after MJ "dies" there's just a big Reel Missing sign in my memory until... JMS?

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Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

The whole dumb MJ plane crashing reminds me that the dark secret of the Peter and Mary Jane marriage is that no one knew what the gently caress to do with it until JMS which is why Marvel felt entirely justified in getting rid of it (despite the marriage being not only an integral part of JMS' run but arguably the best part)

I guess people remember it being way more of a thing due to Spider-Girl or whatever but for like the entire 90's/early 2000's it was basically really bad set dressing for other unrelated stories or home of fantastic plots like treating Mary Jane's smoking addiction like she was heavy into crack cocaine.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


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The whole dumb MJ plane crashing reminds me that the dark secret of the Peter and Mary Jane marriage is that no one knew what the gently caress to do with it until JMS which is why Marvel felt entirely justified in getting rid of it

I guess people remember it being way more of a thing due to Spider-Girl or whatever but for like the entire 90's/early 2000's it was basically really bad set dressing for other unrelated stories or home of fantastic plots like treating Mary Jane's smoking addiction like she was heavy into crack cocaine.

How is it hard? Spider-Man and Mary Jane are a couple. They have couple problems. Mary Jane's personality was defined in the Steve Ditko/Stan Lee run. Make her that but grown up. Have her involved with his life, like spouses tend to be. Have her have her own problems. Have them intersect like Peter and Spider-Man's problems do.

Also, give them a kid. Because that way parents can relate and kids can relate.

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Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017


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The whole dumb MJ plane crashing reminds me that the dark secret of the Peter and Mary Jane marriage is that no one knew what the gently caress to do with it until JMS which is why Marvel felt entirely justified in getting rid of it (despite the marriage being not only an integral part of JMS' run but arguably the best part)

I guess people remember it being way more of a thing due to Spider-Girl or whatever but for like the entire 90's/early 2000's it was basically really bad set dressing for other unrelated stories or home of fantastic plots like treating Mary Jane's smoking addiction like she was heavy into crack cocaine.

Don't forget the long-running subplot of her rich stalker, who was killed by another stalker (who also happened to be a cop) that I want to say came out of nowhere. Oh, and she almost cheated on Peter when he had amnesia in London for like three issues.

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