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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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Making jokes from behind a computer screen through an app that gives you the ability to filter and block responses is wildly different than doing it in front of a live audience.

If you’re confused about the difference try to imagine James Gunn walking out to do a comedy set and just reading those tweets.

I don't have to imagine, I've watched plenty of stand-up from the 90s and 00s. Spoiler: There was lots of edgy poo poo going around.

It's a blatant hit job under the guise of pearl-clutching, supported only by people who are willfully ignorant of the past. Obsessing over whether it was "okay" to make those jokes is moronic. They were jokes, free porn dvd clips clearly so, and ones that as far as anyone can tell were never once acted on, and frankly they're nothing special in terms of blue humor from that decade.

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YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."


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Disney has knowingly hired a lot of people despite their bad behavior, many of whom are far worse than Gunn. I don't think making off-color jokes on Twitter and then deleting them should disqualify you from employment. Spousal abuse, attempted statutory surprise sex, racism, and sexual harassment of female employees at the studio? That's a bit different.

Notice how Gunn gets kicked out on his rear end within days while John Lasseter is given a quiet buy-out and allowed to stay on as a consultant for the rest of the year. They know who their loyalty lies with and who they consider disposable.

Yea, Disney sucks. Hollywood sucks. There are plenty of people who deserve to never work again that are still employed in the industry because they make people a lot of money. They aren’t moral actors. Nobody said they were.

James Gunn also isn’t barred from employment. He can and will work other places.

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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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James Gunn also isn’t barred from employment. He can and will work other places.

Until the next time Cernovich decides to lead a hate mob against him, and get him fired from a job he doesn't even have yet. You know, like the job he didn't even have yet at Disney when the jokes were first made.

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YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."


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Until the next time Cernovich decides to lead a hate mob against him, and get him fired from a job he doesn't even have yet. You know, like the job he didn't even have yet at Disney when the jokes were first made.

I’m sure Troma will take him back.

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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

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Trembling in fear of Mike Cernovich is something people seem oddly eager to do.

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Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



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Trembling in fear of Mike Cernovich is something people seem oddly eager to do.

We should all fear for the jobs of famous rich white dudes.

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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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Trembling in fear of Mike Cernovich is something people seem oddly eager to do.

Cool, dude, let's downplay the idea that a rapist can just end your career out of nowhere by siccing half the internet on you.

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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

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Who told Disney to listen to the rapist?

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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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Who told Disney to listen to the rapist?

Given how instantaneously it happened, someone did. It's totally cool that Roseanne gets several warnings first for being a racist idiot in the present tense though.

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Fart City
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!


Disney certainly shares some culpability in a terrible precedent being set. I don’t see Cernovich and his Flying Dildo Brigade going after Harmon or Black or whoever if the Mouse has just responded with a stern “shut up, idiots.”

But to hope for Disney to err on the side of social good and just morality is a waste of a wish.

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NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012

Unlike me, many of you have accepted the situation of your imprisonment, and will die here like rotten cabbages.

Ironman could stop this.

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Nov 10, 2008

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We should all fear for the jobs of famous rich white dudes.

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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

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Disney certainly shares some culpability in a terrible precedent being set.

It was completely unilateral! That's the whole point, it's not about accountability, it's about power and who wields it.

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ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


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I’m sure Troma will take him back.

What happens when Disney (or whoever in this hypothetical) owns the majority of movie production companies on the planet and someone has a falling out with them and now can't get a job because they own 70% of everything?

Yes yes "whataboutism" but we're talking about a company that is poised to own a lot of the production capabilities of an industry and that is going to have bad consequences for everyone except the stock holders. It's a matter of when in this instance.

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Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008




I'm not celebrating it, I'm cracking wise that a lot of the conversation (not so much here but twitter in general) is focusing solely on him and not the bigger picture. And I don't mean caving in to the neo-nazi outrage but corporate culture in general. i wonder if a petition using James Gunn's situation to call out how under captialism everyone is disposable cog no matter how much money they make a company is would receive as many signatures as the one demanding Disney rehire him. And not just those defending him, a lot of people defending the decision to fire him are too focused on the jokes themselves. The vim and vigor is nice but it's focused on everything but the elephant in the room.

But I will admit that I'm less outraged over his firing than I was Jessica Price (and Pete Fries) firing at ArenaNet only because he's a celebrity.

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What happens when Disney (or whoever in this hypothetical) owns the majority of movie production companies on the planet and someone has a falling out with them and now can't get a job because they own 70% of everything?

Yes yes "whataboutism" but we're talking about a company that is poised to own a lot of the production capabilities of an industry and that is going to have bad consequences for everyone except the stock holders. It's a matter of when in this instance.

It'll stink, but at least our favorite comic book characters will be in movies together!

free adult hentai porn free porn in hd Jimbot fucked around with this message at Jul 24, 2018 around 17:36

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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What happens when Disney (or whoever in this hypothetical) owns the majority of movie production companies on the planet and someone has a falling out with them and now can't get a job because they own 70% of everything?

Yes yes "whataboutism" but we're talking about a company that is poised to own a lot of the production capabilities of an industry and that is going to have bad consequences for everyone except the stock holders. It's a matter of when in this instance.

Not to mention Sony pulling him from his SDCC appearance as well. "I'm sure he'll find work" rings pretty hollow when the only upward/lateral moves he can make are to the companies that are now giving him the cold shoulder.

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CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



James Gunn can come make movies with me. It’ll be fun and cool.

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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



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Until the next time Cernovich decides to lead a hate mob against him, and get him fired from a job he doesn't even have yet. You know, like the job he didn't even have yet at Disney when the jokes were first made.

At least one of the tweets was made after he was hired by Disney.

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YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."


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What happens when Disney (or whoever in this hypothetical) owns the majority of movie production companies on the planet and someone has a falling out with them and now can't get a job because they own 70% of everything?

Yes yes "whataboutism" but we're talking about a company that is poised to own a lot of the production capabilities of an industry and that is going to have bad consequences for everyone except the stock holders. It's a matter of when in this instance.

That’s real bad, but that was real bad before James Gunn got fired for a whole host of reasons and James Gunn’s continued employment as a millionaire comic book movie director is really low on the list of worries I have about the increasing consolidation of control over individual lives by essentially unaccountable mega corporations.

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Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

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Yea I mean if we're gonna open that can of worms about the fact that almost all the art(at least the mainstream) that's created and consumed in America is filtered through corporations, and that artists who want to earn a living are beholden to those corporations, well ok let's do it but the problem goes waaaaaay beyond James Gunn.

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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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That’s real bad, but that was real bad before James Gunn got fired for a whole host of reasons and James Gunn’s continued employment as a millionaire comic book movie director is really low on the list of worries I have about the increasing consolidation of control over individual lives by essentially unaccountable mega corporations.

That's why it's effective. You don't see it as a problem, so the next big firing is only a small step past that, and the next is only a small step past that. So long as people are willing to go "oh who cares, he'll be fine" without being incensed by how this all went down, it's going to continue and worsen.

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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

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That's why it's effective. You don't see it as a problem, so the next big firing is only a small step past that, and the next is only a small step past that. So long as people are willing to go "oh who cares, he'll be fine" without being incensed by how this all went down, it's going to continue and worsen.

What is there to say about this other than "people in the media love making everything about themselves". If you're looking for that moment, it's been with us for years and years now, the only thing particularly alarming about this case is that it happened to someone well off, because we're totally conditioned to famous rich people doing and saying whatever the hell they feel like.

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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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What is there to say about this other than "people in the media love making everything about themselves". If you're looking for that moment, it's been with us for years and years now, the only thing particularly alarming about this case is that it happened to someone well off, because we're totally conditioned to famous rich people doing and saying whatever the hell they feel like.

The alarming thing isn't that he's famous, it's that a literal swamp thing like Cernovich can unironically point at someone else as if they're a sexual deviant, and convince millions that it's true because he made lovely jokes. It's not just "oh, James Gunn won't work for Disney anymore", it's "oh, the court of public opinion can be weaponized to destroy careers over actual, literal nothing".

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Hemingway To Go!
Nov 10, 2008

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Would you say it's a little bit reassuring that Mike has already gone off on several other celebrities with nothing much happening on the scale of Disney firing Gunn.

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MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

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Fart City
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



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Karloff
Mar 21, 2013



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I guess you can forgive and excuse someone for anything if they make something you like.

Or condemn them if they make something you don't.

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Sep 14, 2007

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Would you say it's a little bit reassuring that Mike has already gone off on several other celebrities with nothing much happening on the scale of Disney firing Gunn.

No, because you'd have to admit then that Disney is the problem.

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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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Would you say it's a little bit reassuring that Mike has already gone off on several other celebrities with nothing much happening on the scale of Disney firing Gunn.

It makes it feel a lot less immediate, yes, but it's equally not reassuring that the moment he got the positive feedback for his hit on Gunn, he started looking for more "liberal elites" (that are conveniently outspoken against Trump) to target.

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No, because you'd have to admit then that Disney is the problem.

Disney is the problem. Mike Cernovich is a different problem. The volatility of the court of public opinion is the issue that links them.

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Xun
Apr 25, 2010

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Is there somewhere on SA to talk about the Arenanet thing? I just heard about it but googling about it is a mess because lol gamers

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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

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Disney is the problem. Mike Cernovich is a different problem. The volatility of the court of public opinion is the issue that links them.

Not really, as you and others have noted that Disney acts independently of the 'court of public opinion'.

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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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Not really, as you and others have noted that Disney acts independently of the 'court of public opinion'.

Your reading comprehension skills have seriously degraded if that's what you took away from this.

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BexGu
Jan 9, 2004

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Is there somewhere on SA to talk about the Arenanet thing? I just heard about it but googling about it is a mess because lol gamers

Not really. The GBS thread got gasses too early awhile ago and the GW2 thread regulars freak out if you bring it up.

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WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010



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Is there somewhere on SA to talk about the Arenanet thing? I just heard about it but googling about it is a mess because lol gamers

The Internet Personality thread in RGD discussed it pretty well for a while

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YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."


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The alarming thing isn't that he's famous, it's that a literal swamp thing like Cernovich can unironically point at someone else as if they're a sexual deviant, and convince millions that it's true because he made lovely jokes. It's not just "oh, James Gunn won't work for Disney anymore", it's "oh, the court of public opinion can be weaponized to destroy careers over actual, literal nothing".

That hasn’t really been shown though. I’m not convinced that Gunn’s career is ruined (it’s been like 3 days) and the people that are convinced that Gunn is a sexual deviant aren’t the same people that fired him.

Yea, there are people out there that believe he’s a sexual deviant because Cernovich said so, but a credulous, conspiracy minded, bloodthirsty far right movement isn’t exactly new in American politics. Dudes like Cernovich have been around for decades they just ran AM radio shows instead of twitter and were secret Nazis instead of open ones.

They happened to find a target that exists at the nexus of “made super weird bad jokes on a public forum and works in a highly visible role for a very PR conscious company” and had success, but it’s an extremely limited amount of success compared to the sheer amount of poo poo that the lunatic mob throws at the wall.

Plus the right has actual real power right now that they exercise in far more terrifying ways than “if you were publicly an ironic pedophile in the past they may get you fired by Mickey Mouse.”

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Fart City
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!


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It was completely unilateral! That's the whole point, it's not about accountability, it's about power and who wields it.

Can you expand on this, so I can better understand your viewpoint? I think we might be on a similar page, separated by semantics, but I don’t want to jump to any conclusions.

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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?


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Yea, there are people out there that believe he’s a sexual deviant because Cernovich said so, but a credulous, conspiracy minded, bloodthirsty far right movement isn’t exactly new in American politics. Dudes like Cernovich have been around for decades they just ran AM radio shows instead of twitter and were secret Nazis instead of open ones.

I do agree with you here, but this is the worrying trend. It's not secret anymore, it's not underground or locked away on low-band radio. Alex Jones has millions of viewers, Cernovich seems to be trying to make a new career out of carpetbombing others'. And instead of corporations like Disney telling them to get bent, they're folding like... distressingly fast to any pressure from them.

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Sep 14, 2007

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Your reading comprehension skills have seriously degraded if that's what you took away from this.

Simply put, I don't buy that Cernovich is influential in the slightest outside of media giddily reporting on his every slightest movement. He craves power and legitimacy and is starved out easily. He's useful insofar as you're meant to waste brain cells trembling in fear of the outsized influence he holds, same with any of these other irrelevant charlatans.

There is no "both sides" to this, there is one side, and it's Disney's role as being the keeper of the commons. To even be discussing this like it's some formal, transparent process is absurd, look back a couple of months to the Facebook hearings and Zuckerberg's testimony for a prime example of why discussions of stuff like "protected speech" or whatever should not and cannot be abdicated to corporations.

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Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



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I do agree with you here, but this is the worrying trend. It's not secret anymore, it's not underground or locked away on low-band radio. Alex Jones has millions of viewers, Cernovich seems to be trying to make a new career out of carpetbombing others'. And instead of corporations like Disney telling them to get bent, they're folding like... distressingly fast to any pressure from them.

Unfortunately, corporations will never be allies to anyone. They're not people, despite what the government says. They're machines to generate profit. They'll only ever do "the right thing" if it is in their interest to do so. It's terrible and bad, but that's just capitalism for you.

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YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."


Cernovich has been at this stuff for years. He didn’t just discover the tactic of calling everyone a pedophile, he’s one of the original pizzagater, he just finally had some measure of success against one person who made some unfortunate choices about their public presentation in the past and works for Disney.

It’s also worth remembering that the personal revenge aspect is only part of this: the other part is that Cernovich and his ilk want to be able to hide behind a shield of satire or irony or performative provocation to say whatever lovely things they want without repercussions, and saying “they’re just tasteless jokes, who cares,” is exactly what they want to hear.

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