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Ottoman
Apr 30, 2004

Hideki! You have so many side dishes. Can Chii be your main course?

I have a bachelor's degree in film, which is why I am currently a staffing coordinator in healthcare after ten years of various processing and clerical work. I would love to start a YouTube career or something like that but bread and butter takes everything out of me and I have a pension here, so here I stay.

I cannot talk about what facility I work in, and if you guess it I cannot acknowledge it. It is a long-term care facility mostly for the elderly run by a local government. Its census is usually around 660 residents on any given day on 16 different units, many of which are broken into different populations such as dementia, bariatric, or short-term rehab. Medical professionals such as doctors, rehab, and other things like lab work and imaging are all contracted out. Our direct care staff, however, are mostly government employees and they are all union. This includes nurses (RNs and LPNs) and aides (CNAs) plus some unit clerks on day shift. We run on three shifts: Day Shift 7-3, Middles 3-11, Nights 11-7.

When I started there a few years ago I was hired as the Nursing Supervisor's secretary on day shift. We had good staffing then. The only outlier was middle shift, because anywhere you work it's the lovely shift that most people try to get out of. That shift had some agency LPNs to supplement our staff - for my purposes "agency" means direct care staff who are contracted through a staffing agency. The union contract lasts two years and so does the local government. Between the change in administration due to the election and the change in union contract, the place has gone to absolute poo poo. It was on a decline to begin with due to our salaries not being comparable to other places (although we have great benefits) but these other major changes made everything deteriorate rather rapidly. I don't want to go into huge detail on what all these changes were because it would be an enormously cool story but as is often the case they were all changes that were designed to help improve things and now have backfired exponentially. People who have worked here for 30 years say it's never been this bad.

The staffing levels are enormously difficult to coordinate in a facility this large. It has always fallen to the nursing supervisors and especially on day shift this has been such a time sink that it was difficult to get any actual nursing done. There is already one scheduler who crafts the future schedule and posts it, but it's the last minute requests that were still killing the supervisors. So the assistant director of nursing (ADON) was able to convince the government to create a new position for a second scheduler who would take over requests related to the posted schedule. I had already been doing some of this on behalf of the day shift supervisors and I was stressed as hell in that role so I posted for the new position, which was a promotion for me, and I got it.

We have finally filled the vacant Director of Nursing (DON) position and the new DON has directed me and my counterpart to find "creative solutions" to help with the staffing crisis we are experiencing. Our problem of course is the government will not agree to any kind of salary raise or monetary incentives whatsoever. Also my coworker and I do scheduling, not recruiting, our role is really just to coordinate the hundreds of employees we already have and reach out to existing staff and agencies to notify them there is a shortage on "x" day/shift in hopes that someone will volunteer for overtime. And we currently work with EIGHT agencies, now for not just LPNs but also for RNs, RN supervisors, and CNAs, and they are basically tapped out. So we don't have enough people to coordinate.

As it is the shortages here are so bad that we are having to beg our staff all the time to work overtime to the point that people are starting to quit and ALL nursing staff on day shift refuses to be mandated, since middle shift is the prime issue and there are NO CONSEQUENCES to refusing a mandate. We make deals to give them days off if they want but that is only robbing Peter to pay Paul (although that is still less of a problem with day shift since they have way more staff to start with). Lots of our staff switched to per diem instead of full time or part time, as that was an option with the new contract, and now our weekends are in terrible shape due to all these per diems who are not required to work weekends while our normal staff has to work every other weekend. No one is requesting to work weekends for overtime like they used to because they are afraid we will attempt to mandate them. We used to have to follow really strict guidelines to minimize overtime but now middle shift is pretty staffed with nothing but overtime, there is totally insufficient starting staff and they usually end up running at snow levels on most days.

The only time we have been fully staffed on all three shifts is on paid holidays because they make double time. Hmm, staff wants to work because they're getting more money? You don't say!

I'm staying late most days just trying to address everyone's schedule change requests and helping the supervisors beg for help when we're short a DOZEN nurses some evenings and also frequently help coordinate shift change since there's so few supervisors left and as the old secretary I'm good at that. Everyone's pulling double duty with no change in sight except the new DON issuing any kind of order that will prevent her from having to work (which is a shame since all our previous DONs were hands on). Lastly I think that while the union is important for certain things it's too strong, and our morale as a facility is so low that it may not be reversible despite the fact that up until recently we were considered a desirable place to work and hard to get into.

Is this crisis ever going to end? How hosed am I? Any advice or magic wands? I have researched some of the reasons for the current crisis but the only short term solutions are to throw money at staff which is something we have our hands tied from doing.

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Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


If your pay sucks and you are using overtime as a constant means of filling shifts then why do you think the union is to strong? Also why would people want to work there when you yourself admit the pay is poo poo? There is a pay shortage not a staffing shortage.

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sbaldrick
Jul 19, 2006
Driven by Hate


Are you the only nursing home that doesn’t have problems filling overnight, If so god bless.

Generally I don’t like to blame the younger generation for things but I work with a guy that quit nursing because he couldn’t get full time Monday to Friday days. The problem with nursing now is a bunch of people got talked into being nurses without learning about the life that nursing involves. Without more money to offer or locking people into school contacts you can’t fix things.

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Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


So you're having trouble with staffing because of lovely pay and lovely conditions and your conclusion is that the union is too star in the nude strong?

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MF_James
May 8, 2008
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INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE


FYI nursing homes are poo poo overall, my fiancee is a mental health professional, prior to getting her masters she was stuck working in nursing homes; people are over-worked and underpaid (her case load was 60-80 people which is insane), though the facilities she worked at were private, I don't expect gov't run facilities to be much better.

Your option is to leave and find a place that isn't a shithole, hth

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Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


The Nursing Staffing Crisis isn't difficult to understand. It's the natural result of a rapidly aging population and the atrocious working conditions/wages most employers are offering.

That said, it's kind of amazing how (in the U.S.) you can open a newspaper/load one up online and look at the Help Wanted ads, and 80-90% of them are in two and only two fields: nursing, and truck driving. The local paper here ran a Labor Day front page piece that listed the top five growth sectors for employment as:

1. Nursing
2. Nursing
3. CDL Truck Driving
4. Retail
5. Nursing

Nursing is so far-and-away the #1 employment field that you can split it into three separate fields and still place them all in the top five.

You'll also notice how the only growing employment fields involve hideous hours and work for lovely pay.

Welcome to the 21st century. The globalization and automation horses ain't coming back to the barn, and the executive class is so brazenly exploiting the working class that it's beginning to actually push the U.S. toward a civil war.

tl;dr version: if you want more people to be willing to work for you as nurses, try paying them more.

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A White Guy
Dec 19, 2012

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Its not that your employer can't find people- its that your employer can't or won't pay benefits commensurate with what they're asking of their employees.

The Nursing crisis is, in a lot of ways, like the inability of youth organizations to staff summer camps. You have a job that deals with a naturally difficult population (old people/little kids), has weird/wonky hours, needs hands on deck all the time, and to top it off, has a barrier to entry.

So one of two things need to happen: Lower the barrier to entry AND/OR pay more/offer better benefits. There's really no way around that. Any discussion that doesn't start with More Pay or Easier to Get In is pissing in the wind.

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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

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The Nursing Staffing Crisis isn't difficult to understand. It's the natural result of a rapidly aging population and the atrocious working conditions/wages most employers are offering.

That said, it's kind of amazing how (in the U.S.) you can open a newspaper/load one up online and look at the Help Wanted ads, and 80-90% of them are in two and only two fields: nursing, and truck driving. The local paper here ran a Labor Day front page piece that listed the top five growth sectors for employment as:

1. Nursing
2. Nursing
3. CDL Truck Driving
4. Retail
5. Nursing

Nursing is so far-and-away the #1 employment field that you can split it into three separate fields and still place them all in the top five.

You'll also notice how the only growing employment fields involve hideous hours and work for lovely pay.

Welcome to the 21st century. The globalization and automation horses ain't coming back to the barn, and the executive class is so brazenly exploiting the working class that it's beginning to actually push the U.S. toward a civil war.

tl;dr version: if you want more people to be willing to work for you as nurses, try paying them more.

Funny, we just had the same conversation over in the restaurant industry thread regarding the need to pay people actual wages if you want good wokers.

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Ottoman
Apr 30, 2004

Hideki! You have so many side dishes. Can Chii be your main course?

Believe me, everyone is screaming for better pay but the government is the keeper of the purse strings and they say "your staffing is fine" so that's that, we can do nothing despite all the statistics we come up with.

The barrier to getting in is a Mantoux test and a hair drug test, and actually showing up on the day of your very generic health screening. We are hiring pretty much anybody and unfortunately it often shows. We are now offering tuition reimbursement and we have a decent health plan, government quantity paid time off, pension.

Another thing killing us right now is 1:1s. Bare minimum staff on middles is 32 aides which is really lovely, it leaves many aides with 25 patients apiece when they should have half that. And we have nine 1:1s. That's more than an additional 25% of the entire base staff. I'm not involved with anything medical but it seems like our psych group is ineffective, plus we are accepting patients who are not appropriate to this facility. Because the administration group (also contacted) sees dollar signs for people who are not accepted anywhere else. Whatever we are making off their piddly insurance cannot possibly offset the cost of the salary of three CNAs (one per shift), can it?

We actually don't have much issue staffing night shift. They are pretty stable but even they are starting to lose people which is sad. The only thing that I can really do is push our agencies to give us middle shift work and pretend we don't need people on day shift as much as we do because sometimes they'll only pick up middles if they can't get days, and since most of the action happens on days it's by far the best staffed and can afford to be shorted more. Except weekends are abysmal on days. I just sent out another staffing needs email to the agencies mentioning that we need THIRTY aides both days next weekend. We will probably only get ten more, if that.

I agree we should pay more, if we had the best pay we would have no issue because everyone would be beating down our door to work here. But we end up with a lot of losers. Many of them are good people and many are diamonds in the rough that we help shape. But being a good person does not ensure being a good worker though that's a different story.

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Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


I am genuinely curious what you think the problem with the union is?

Also you say your working extra hours because of this. Are you being paid for that time?

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vuk83
Oct 9, 2012


Why eight hour shifts? Here in Denmark a lot of nursing staff work for example 7-13 ,cause the workload is getting people out of bed. And if you hire temps they are out the door after lunch in a day shift

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JibbaJabberwocky
Aug 14, 2010



Sounds like the union isn't strong enough. If it was, you'd get the money from the government/administration to hire an appropriate number of staff and you'd have techs and nurses actually willing to work there because the pay would be great. Honestly I think you're screwed. Hospital administration always arbitrarily decides that staffing is completely adequate when no one actually working there agrees. It's all about the money, they're not working the floor so they don't give a poo poo about the revolving door of staff. You're in a catch 22. You can't get better staff/enough staff unless you offer higher wages and you're not being allowed to offer higher wages. So you'll continue to lose staff.

Let's be honest, working in a nursing home is commonly considered rock bottom for nurses. It's always talked about as everyone's plan Z, something you'd do just as long as you had to to pay the bills before leaving to work somewhere else once you had enough experience for your resume. I worked LTAC and even I felt glad not to be working in a nursing home. It immediately brings to mind caring for way too many really complex/frustrating patients with no where near enough staff for garbage pay. Yes you're going to get the people who couldn't find jobs that were higher paying with better staffing ratios. Yes you're going to be getting the worst nurses and techs because anyone who has a choice will be going elsewhere. So it's going to be a lot of people who sit around and refuse to actually do their job because they know you're desperate and can get away with it. It's definitely not always the case but my experience with agency LPNs/RNs wasn't a positive one. I never met one I thought was competent and hardworking (though admittedly that could just be a result of my awful employer). Nurses and techs talk, chances are everyone in your town knows you are short 12 nurses and have 1:25 CNA ratios (something I can tell you first hand is completely unmanageable when it becomes a daily occurrence on a unit). The only way to change this is to offer even better pay than the places with decent staffing and less acute patients. Otherwise you just can't compete. You're asking people to do the worst kind of nursing so you need to offer the best kind of pay.

You're working in administration and as someone who worked on the floor I'm honestly not surprised but still pretty disgusted that you think the problem is a too strong nursing union and not the horrible conditions, lovely pay, and lack of support for staff. Healthcare workers don't like spending 8-12 hours in a dumpster fire every day. It's stressful to know that they're not able to provide the best care for their patients. There's only so many days you can put up with walking on your unit and realizing everyone has a ridiculous number of patients and there's only one tech before you say gently caress it and find a better job. The problem is the government and the administration, not the nurses or the union. I wish I had a solution for you but I've always been the one who abandoned ship when things got that bad. I've never seen staff or supervisors successfully convince administration that staffing or pay is inadequate. They always see money as the bottom line and don't give a poo poo about staff or patients.

Unless the government is forced to mandate adequate staffing ratios, it's not going to get better. So I guess just hope the union gets even stronger and they strike long enough that something changes on a policy level.

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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

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Working in a nursing home has to take a specific personality, because you know going in that pretty much 100% of the people you're caring for are just being kept comfortable until they pass away. It's like hospice, only with patients that may remain for years.

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vuk83
Oct 9, 2012


Why is middles such a poo poo shift?

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Lima
Jun 17, 2012



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Why is middles such a poo poo shift?

I assume it's because people with kids only gets to see them in the morning and non-work weekends.

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Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012


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I assume it's because people with kids only gets to see them in the morning and non-work weekends.

If you don't have kids it means that you can't see your friends on weekdays, unless you all loving love the club

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Ottoman
Apr 30, 2004

Hideki! You have so many side dishes. Can Chii be your main course?

Maybe the union isn't too strong as I first said in my admittedly ranty original post. And it's true that as administration it's hard to put myself in their place. Perhaps what I am perceiving is the attitude of the overworked people who are trying to make it through another drat short staffed day. When I started just a few years ago attitudes were completely different. Most of our staff loved working there and there was very little overtime to come by because we were in great shape (except for middle shift but they were still covered). The changes were rapid. A lot of people who worked here forever retired or went per diem and never worked again. The last contract change seemed to coincide with the beginning of the end. The next contract is 2019 so I foresee a lot of demands and if our staff doesn't get better pay we are sunk. Especially for RNs and LPNs. I don't know their rates or what is comparable but I understand we are crap. Aides aren't as bad apparently, paywise.

Agency staff can be ok, depending. We tend to get the same people over and over, many at full time hours, a lot of them say they would work for us directly if we paid. Since we are government, I guess it's better in the short term, in their eyes, to pay for more expensive agency staff than pay out benefits, especially pension.

My fiance, who has worked in healthcare for decades, calls middle shift the divorce shift because couples who are getting divorced often end up having one of the two of them working that shift so they don't have to see each other...because when you work middles you have no social life. I worked for a few months as a temp at the post office on middles (hours were all over the place and I usually had to stay for mandatory overtime), and I had one day off per week and it was a Thursday. My then-boyfriend worked full time days so I got to see him once a week on Thursday evenings - even though I lived with him. It was the most difficult time of my life. Never got to see family or friends or anyone except coworkers and it strained my relationship to the breaking point.

I do get paid for my overtime. I would rather go home. I have stayed to work well over twelve hours a few times when middles has no supervisor on a Friday (they're out passing meds because of staffing shortage), essentially working my last position as the nursing supervisor secretary and helping coordinate the madness until they are stable enough for me to go home. And I got a phone call once from an LPN who said she was pretty sure her patient was having a TIA (mini-stroke) and added "he's trying to squeeze my hand." I directed her to the nearest RN, reported it to one of the sup's out on another unit, and then let the feeling of heart break kick in. These are human beings we are trying to take care of. And we are asking these workers to stay and work these crazy hours. I learned I didn't want to work them so how can I be hounding our staff to keep this up? I mean we have to try and cover holes to reach minimums for middles so the hounding must continue. The band aid isn't lasting. And some people want the overtime but when they're burned out, and we are at mandate level, the rest of the staff outright refuses the mandate so we are dangerously short. Sometimes I wish they'd shut us down and get it over with so I can get some sleep, as right now I've been awake since 3am worrying about how the hell we're gonna cover tomorrow. Again.

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Cockmaster
Feb 24, 2002


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Believe me, everyone is screaming for better pay but the government is the keeper of the purse strings and they say "your staffing is fine" so that's that, we can do nothing despite all the statistics we come up with.

There's the root of the problem right there - half of our elected officials essentially treat healthcare (along with anything else intended to benefit filthy commoners like us) like a frivolous luxury. And the private sector is going to cut costs anywhere they can, because healthcare and the profit motive go together like bleach and ammonia.

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Let's be honest, working in a nursing home is commonly considered rock bottom for nurses. It's always talked about as everyone's plan Z, something you'd do just as long as you had to to pay the bills before leaving to work somewhere else once you had enough experience for your resume.

And don't nursing homes tend to keep their RN/CNA staff to a bare minimum, relying as much as possible on minimally-trained minimum-wage grunts for routine caregiver duties?

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Ottoman
Apr 30, 2004

Hideki! You have so many side dishes. Can Chii be your main course?

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And don't nursing homes tend to keep their RN/CNA staff to a bare minimum, relying as much as possible on minimally-trained minimum-wage grunts for routine caregiver duties?

This is the only nursing home I've worked at but we have an enormous population, averaging about 660 residents across sixteen units in two buildings and they have different staffing levels depending on the unit and the shift. Night shift basically has not changed at all because their ratios are so small to start that there is no wiggle room.

First off, three RNs must be on campus at any one time and at least two of them must be supervisors. This is not an issue on day shift due to RNs who have specialized duties plus the nursing directors and a fair amount of charge nurses. Used to be one RN per unit on days with 1-3 extra RNs floating to help out. Middle shift used to have about 12 RNs both passing meds and acting as charge plus a couple floating since we get a lot of admissions on middles. Night shift typically has one RN either floating or acting as charge on a unit in addition to the supervisors.

LPNs are super important because in a pinch we can ask them to act as a charge nurse or as an aide. Our three smallest units only require one LPN to pass meds on days and middles and all other units require two LPNs. Night shift is one per unit and are essentially charge nurses. We have a real dearth of RNs due to poo poo salary so now we frequently have multiple units with no RN on days with extra LPNs acting as charge when available, and I can't remember the last time we had a float on days. Middles usually have just a few RNs these days and often the supervisors have to act as float nurse or even med pass.

Aides are the most complex. Depending on the unit, day shift staff:resident ratio ranges between 1:7 and 1:10 since day shift is when we do most of our ADLs and bathing. Snow days we can go as low as 1:13 or thereabouts but that's rare. Night shift is two aides per unit which is between 1:10 and 1:25 depending on the unit, with a few of the high census units with more behavior issues getting one additional aide if available (and that's where we'd pull from if someone goes home sick). Because the residents are generally asleep through most of this shift they run just fine on this level and night shift is still very stable for consistent staffing.

Middle shift aides are the worst right now. The ratio is supposed to be something like 1:10 to 1:13. We are running at snow levels almost every day which is 1:25 at worst. And the 1:1s are killing whatever little staff we have and are artificially inflating our ratios since they are not accounted for in the numbers.

How do my optimum/actual levels compare to other places? BTW as far as "minimally trained," we have our own CNA program with weeks of mandatory training for them and new hire nurses. Per diem staff only get a limited training and agency is given optional unpaid shadowing but these people are supposed to be experienced already. (Note: "supposed to.") Most agency staff tell me they are never given additional training when they go to a new facility which kind of blows my mind.

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Tiny Tubesteak Tom
Dec 16, 2011

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Nurses get paid a fraction of what they probably should and are often tasked with covering multiple stations at once. It's not uncommon for my mom, who is a long time radiologist, to be asked or even outright scheduled to cover a swing shift in the emergency room - a place where she routinely has to lift and work with 600+ pound people with little to no assistance and deal with mental patients with nowhere to go. It's a thankless, lovely slog with little motivating factors to go on outside of your own determination to help sick people.

I've heard that EMTs have it bad, but at least they get to drive around in an ambulance. Nurses have to stand, walk, and sometimes run all day long between stations. Hospitals are unwilling or unable (thanks trump) to improve working conditions. In Massachusetts, they're trying to get a patient limit law passed that will supposedly take some of the burden off of individual nurses, but this will only work if there are enough nurses to spread out the workload period. It blows.

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Thanatosian
Apr 16, 2013

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Has anyone done an analysis on the amount you guys are losing in overtime, or turnover, and how much you're likely to save by increasing pay so you can hire more people/lose fewer people?

What's your shift differential for the middle shifts? And if your question is "what's a shift differential?" you have your answer for how you get more people on the middle shifts.

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Apr 30, 2004

Hideki! You have so many side dishes. Can Chii be your main course?

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Has anyone done an analysis on the amount you guys are losing in overtime, or turnover, and how much you're likely to save by increasing pay so you can hire more people/lose fewer people?

What's your shift differential for the middle shifts? And if your question is "what's a shift differential?" you have your answer for how you get more people on the middle shifts.

I don't know what the differential is but there is definitely a differential for middles and nights, and a higher rate on the weekend. As far as analyses, if there have been any performed I don't know about them. I've only been in this job for a few months but our fiscal administrator (who is a great guy) had access to our online staffing system and our payroll system so I'm sure he runs reports for the government. A giant chunk of our paychecks go to (mediocre) healthcare and pension so my guess is they would rather pay overtime than more full timer benefits, statistics/logic or no.

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GORILLA BASTARD
Jun 20, 2005
SEXUAL DYNAMO

I work at a state psychiatric hospital that is offering complete free nursing school to any state worker that meets their standards. The fine print is that you sign on for a minimum of 5-6 years after graduating. If you leave before then your on the hook for the total cost.

Oh dear, you have a guarenteed job for 6 years after school. Slavery!

One of my coworkers went for it. They shifted his work schedule to Fri- evening shift, a double on Saturday & a double on Sunday. They bent over backwards to accommodate him, i.e. If he asked for any time off they gave it to him even if it caused overtime. If I was younger I would have seriously considered it.

State Psy. Nurses mostly just draw blood, dispense meds & paperwork. Any & all medical procedures get shipped off to real hospitals. Stitches? Send them out!

They have a metric TON of leverage. Seen them talk poo poo to doctors with NO repercussions whatsoever.

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May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


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I work at a state psychiatric hospital that is offering complete free nursing school to any state worker that meets their standards. The fine print is that you sign on for a minimum of 5-6 years after graduating. If you leave before then your on the hook for the total cost.

Oh dear, you have a guarenteed job for 6 years after school. Slavery!

It's actually really remarkable just how minusculely close we've gotten to explicitly reimplementing indentured servitude.

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NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Once the boomers finish dying things will be better. Around 2040-2050 or so.

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Ottoman
Apr 30, 2004

Hideki! You have so many side dishes. Can Chii be your main course?

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Once the boomers finish dying things will be better. Around 2040-2050 or so.

...oh good I'll be in my sixties or seventies by then and I'll be ready for a home!!!!

Lots of our workers joke about retiring and moving directly into a room at our facility. One RN says she will secure a private room (some rooms are up to four residents). When another co-worker told her that would be difficult she said "no I have it worked out: I'll start flingin' my poop and they won't have a choice!" and triumphantly mimed pulling poo poo out of her rear end and chucking it.

I love my staff.

In seriousness, we finally started to do tuition reimbursement and working with the staff to schedule around classes. Problem is we are funding people in programs that will not benefit us, such as x-ray tech (we don't employ them) and we don't require them to work for us afterward so we will be losing staff because of this. Not sure who came up with this program but it's only been in place since the latest union contract IIRC so nothing has come out of it yet. We offer a free CNA program which also does not require workers to stay at all so we do not get a ton of CNAs from it, a lot of people resign upon getting their certificate. I was stoked to get five nes hires out of the last class, the most in a while, when we used to get more like a dozen. And new hires usually had to start part time to build seniority until they could post for a full time spot but now we've got tons of full time spots and not enough part timers. I don't know how long we can keep this up and I dread going in every single day.

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NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


It is not a US only problem. They have the same problems here, ageing population so more nursing staff is required. But frankly nursing pay is pretty poo poo (even the nursing positions that require a 4 year degree which would be a RN i guess?) and mostly people are not feeling the "nursing lifestyle" where you get to work night shifts and emotionally and physically heavy labour into your 60's. Also education positions were slashed pretty severely in the aftermath of the great financial crisis so the pipeline is also pretty empty.
I read somewhere a few years ago that during the peak of they "greying" something like 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 people will have to work in healthcare to fill all positions, clearly that is not going to happen. Government has decided to just close most nursing homes and "empower" people to live at home longer by "activating their network". I'll let you guess how well that is working out.

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... Problem is we are funding people in programs that will not benefit us, such as x-ray tech (we don't employ them) and we don't require them to work for us afterward so we will be losing staff because of this. Not sure who came up with this program but it's only been in place since the latest union contract IIRC so nothing has come out of it yet.

We offer a free CNA program which also does not require workers to stay at all so we do not get a ton of CNAs from it, a lot of people resign upon getting their certificate...

Paying for their education of X-Ray techs, nurses & not having them sign a contract to stay for X-amount of years is...not helpful?

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Ottoman
Apr 30, 2004

Hideki! You have so many side dishes. Can Chii be your main course?

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Paying for their education of X-Ray techs, nurses & not having them sign a contract to stay for X-amount of years is...not helpful?

It's sex with a cop especially unhelpful when we don't even employ x-ray techs or some of the other things people are going for. ...Kill me.

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If you're underpaying them, free tuition may be the only thing keeping your turnover from going even higher.

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My advice is to find a new job and let it be someone else's problem. Even if you pay $15/hr with benefits and tuition, you're going to have constant staffing problems because elder care sucks massively for everyone involved.

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Ottoman
Apr 30, 2004

Hideki! You have so many side dishes. Can Chii be your main course?

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My advice is to find a new job and let it be someone else's problem. Even if you pay $15/hr with benefits and tuition, you're going to have constant staffing problems because elder care sucks massively for everyone involved.

I am hoping to post to a different area within the same government because retirement benefits are something I am not willing to give up. The staffing situation is improving but I'm afraid it's temporary due to summer vacations ending and holiday season not yet starting.

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Jun 28, 2018


i would rather starve than work with decrepit old people

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Dec 12, 2003

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Sounds like you may be in Canada, and if that's the case, then no, none of the health care unions are strong at all here.

They're strong enough to keep things as is, but they haven't been able to actually make things better for staff in decades. You generally get to keep what you have, with yearly cost of living wage increases (re: no where close enough to keep up with cost of living), and that's about it. Union members are afraid to stand behind their wants and needs, because the union has never been able to enforce those wants and if they press the issue they never get anywhere in the best of cases, or get poo poo taken away in the worst of cases.

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Jan 30, 2006

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Funny, we just had the same conversation over in the restaurant industry thread regarding the need to pay people actual wages if you want good wokers.

It's a popular problem. Schools/governments in Asia constantly complain and wonder why they can't get/retain excellent teachers while steadily increasing the work hours, reducing benefits like vacation time, and lowering the already lovely pay.

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Feb 15, 2006



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It's a popular problem. Schools/governments in Asia constantly complain and wonder why they can't get/retain excellent teachers while steadily increasing the work hours, reducing benefits like vacation time, and lowering the already lovely pay.

In my home state of New Hampshire they just complain that anyone who wants a better wage are a bunch of entitled Millennial communists and smug themselves into fewer workers.

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Jun 28, 2018


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i would rather starve than work with decrepit old people
i feel bad for this post now, since i made it the universe has brought me into contact with several decrepit but sweet old people who deserve to be in a nice place being taken care of by well-paid, dedicated staff that said i'd still rather starve than do nursing but that's because i, personally, am a gently caress-up

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Ottoman
Apr 30, 2004

Hideki! You have so many side dishes. Can Chii be your main course?

I am actually in the US. I really hope the union gets better pay this year so we can get more and better workers. Especially RNs. And avshalemon I hear both of your posts - I think I would be incapable of direct care work because I fail as a person. Most of our patients are really cool/nice people though so that helps. As it is I can only tolerate people so much so the employee contact with coordinating schedules fills my quotient of human contact.

Anyone in the business ever have trouble mandating staff for overtime due to staffing shortage on the next shift?

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i would rather starve than work with decrepit old people

Root of the problem right there. Someone brought up how nursing and trucking are perpetually short staffed. Personally I think pay is only part of the problem. There is no amount of money you could pay me to babysit cranky olds who are waiting for death, nor to spend 60+ hour weeks in a truck. The former would destroy my mind, the latter my body. The jobs are just miserable poo poo and paying more doesn't change that, I would never do either except out of desperation.

The only way pay free mature boy sex could change that is if it was so astronomically high that I would just accept "I will be miserable for a few years stockpiling mad cash and then quit", which does not make for stellar employees for obvious reasons.

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The only way pay knocked up sex part could change that is if it was so astronomically high that I would just accept "I will be miserable for a few years stockpiling mad cash and then quit", which does not make for stellar employees for obvious reasons.

Seems to work for the tech industry.

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