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X-O
Apr 28, 2002

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Alright we tried to have a thread solely focused on more in depth discussion but some jackass disrupted the thread caused problems and then it turned into people calling each other names. This was not the idea I had in mind for the thread when it was created. So if people want a more hands off approach instead instead we'll try that. I'm going to relax the posting guidelines but the few rules that are in place will be dealt with in a stricter manner.

There are only three rules to this thread. Breaking any of these rules results in your account being banned. There will be no probations handed out in this thread, other than six hour probations to shut people up until a ban is approved. Other than that you are free to post however you like in this thread. Do not report any posts in this thread unless you believe they are breaking one of these rules.


1. Harassment or intolerance of any kind is unacceptable. If you are racist, homophobic, transphobic, or just a garden variety piece of poo poo you will be banned. If you complain about too many women in comics or diversity in comics you will be banned. If you support ComicsGate and actually are stupid enough to say so you will be banned. If one of those people disrupt the thread you're free to treat them in a manner a bigot is deserving.

2. If you post in this thread to argue in bad faith or play devil's advocate you will banned. If you post to antagonize or play games you will be banned.

3. No NSFW posts/material. Even in spoiler tags. Especially in spoiler tags. If you do you will be banned.


If you are banned for Rules 2 or 3 in this thread you not only forfeit your account you also forfeit your rights to post in this thread again if you pay to unban yourself and will be banned again if you post in this thread.

If you are banned for Rule 1 in this thread you forfeit your right to post in BSS in any thread and will be banned any time you make a post in this forum.


If someone is reported for breaking one of the rules above it will be dealt with as soon as possible. Bans are not immediate. I will give a six hour probation to shut them up when I see the report and submit the ban but if the ban is not approved in six hours that means they might keep posting in this thread.

Other than that you are free to engage with each other in whatever manner you wish. So do not report someone that simply disagrees with you unless they fall into one of the categories above. Do not report anyone that argues with you unless they fall into one of the categories above. If you don't like what they're saying then say something back to them. The gloves are off now.


EDIT: Since apparently it needs double double clarification if some bigot comes into the thread to cause issues you are free to respond in any way you wish.

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If someone is reported for breaking one of the rules above it will be dealt with as soon as possible. Bans are not immediate. I will give a six hour probation to shut them up when I see the report and submit the ban but if the ban is not nikki sims sex video approved in six hours that means they might keep posting in this thread.

So the banning process isn't automatic? It has to be ratified by a majority vote of the Council of Elders or something?

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So the banning process isn't automatic? It has to be ratified by a majority vote of the Council of Elders or something?

They need to be approved by an admin.

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So the banning process isn't automatic? It has to be ratified by a majority vote of the Council of Elders or something?

I'm not a mod but as I understand it mods can freely hand out sixers all they want but anything more than that has to be approved by an admin, I guess to keep someone from going power crazy and banning everyone in [INSERT SUBFORUM HERE].

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I'm not a mod but as I understand it mods can freely hand out sixers all they want but anything more than that has to be approved by an admin, I guess to keep someone from going power crazy and banning everyone in [INSERT SUBFORUM HERE].

In this instance, it's very safe to say that all the bans will be honored because the introduction post makes the rules and consequences very clear. So if rules one, two, or three are broken, an admin will almost certainly ratify the ban.

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I'm not a mod but as I understand it mods can freely hand out sixers all they want but anything more than that has to be approved by an admin, I guess to keep someone from going power crazy and banning everyone in [INSERT SUBFORUM HERE].

This is correct.

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One of the things that you saw in the last thread was Death Ray’s argument that by failing to engage people in conversation you lose out the chance to influence them. I think we can all agree that for Death Ray and guys like that this is a bad faith argument. Engaging them gives them credibility because they are actually in the conversation. They aren’t worth engaging.

That said, and this is probably bigger than comics, I really want to figure out how to engage people in real life on stuff like this. The number of intelligent and genuinely good people I know who fall for poo poo like Jordan Peterson is really disheartening. I think these people do need to be engaged, if only to point them in the direction of good arguments to the contrary.

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One of the things that you saw in the last thread was Death Ray’s argument that by failing to engage people in conversation you lose out the chance to influence them. I think we can all agree that for Death Ray and guys like that this is a bad faith argument. Engaging them gives them credibility because they are actually in the conversation. They aren’t worth engaging.

I mean people tips for amazing sex did engage him in conversation, is the thing. He then decided that rather than have a conversation he'd rather play Rumplestiltskin and make people guess his true argument all the while acting like a smarmy rear end in a top hat when they inevitably very quickly got tired of his bizarre and insufferable attitude. You're 100% right about it not being worth engaging further than that though.

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That said, and this is probably bigger than comics, I really want to figure out how to engage people in real life on stuff like this. The number of intelligent and genuinely good people I know who fall for poo poo like Jordan Peterson is really disheartening. I think these people do need to be engaged, if only to point them in the direction of good arguments to the contrary.

As pessimistic as it's going to sound, I'm not sure there's a way to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place. The idea that you can counter illogic with the proper application of logic (and of course decorum, can't forget that) doesn't seem actually tenable. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many conspiracy theorists out there, and a lot of the far right (which includes comicsgate) is increasingly forming a perfect overlapping circle with conspiracy theory mentality, at least among those who aren't just cynically milking the movement for cash while they can.

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Yeah, the thing about ComicsGate, other -gate movements, and the chud/alt-right in general is that they like to sexy red heads nude pretend they're creatures of pure, honest logic, but it's a con game. Either they're foot soldiers to some right-wing puppet master who's deliberately motivated them towards a specific target (the D&C guy, Milo Y. and Adam Baldwin for GamerGate), they're trying to make their nonsense sound decent so they can suck well-meaning people in, or both at once.

Some of them may even honestly believe that they're just trying to have fun with comics and don't care for a blatant ideological bias present in their pop culture, but that argument's all holes. As Archyduke (?) pointed out in the last thread, the idealized, politics-free past that these people aspire to never actually existed. All art, even pop art, is inherently reflective of the creator's viewpoint. If you're actually going to try to argue otherwise, then it's simply reflective of poor critical-thinking skills.

The only real recourse is to ignore them, belittle them, or push them out as opportunities and circumstances dictate. All you can do is hope to minimize the damage until they either flame out or wise up.

The good news, such as it is, is that there are no smooth media operators behind a typical -gate. Gamergate in particular did a lot of damage, but most of its leaders have either vanished into clouds of failure or are in the process of doing so, and its two primary targets, Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn, got good lesbian porn movies more successful. (I'm sure they'd prefer to have attained fame some other way, of course, but I still think it's funny; an entire international social-media organization that had a major goal in getting Sarkeesian to shut up and go away actually resulted in her addressing the United Nations.)

Comicsgate is already following that lead the last I checked, as tends to be the case any time you let Theodore "Vox Day" Beale into the clubhouse. They may be mouthy on Twitter and Disney may be lovely at dealing with organized social-media hate campaigns, but there's no way this ends in any kind of victory for them. At black teen gang banged best, you'll see a small indie press company spring up where the right-wing chud patrol can publish their own books, most of which will be mediocre at best, and that'll be an end to it.

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The good news, such as it is, is that there are no smooth media operators behind a typical -gate. Gamergate in particular did a lot of damage, but most of its leaders have either vanished into clouds of failure or are in the process of doing so, and its two primary targets, Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn, got free fisting porn vids more successful. (I'm sure they'd prefer to have attained fame some other way, of course, but I still think it's funny; an entire international social-media organization that had a major goal in getting Sarkeesian to shut up and go away actually resulted in her addressing the United Nations.)

Part of the reason gamergate in particular was able to be as damaging as it was, by the way, is because when it cropped up the broader response to it was a mixture of trying to engage them as if they were a legitimate movement or simply ignoring them and hoping they'd go away, and that lackluster response was what simultaneously gave them the veneer of legitimacy they craved and allowed them to fling poo poo everywhere for as long as they did without repercussion. One big difference between that and comicsgate is that the response to comicsgate has been much more of an unequivocal "gently caress off" not just from people in the audience but from companies and creators as well. Nobody's wasting nearly as much time trying to win debates with these guys in the Marketplace of Ideas because nobody's buying the transparently false "it's all about quality in comics!" line of bullshit, nor should they.

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That said, and this is probably bigger than comics, I really want to figure out how to engage people in real life on stuff like this. The number of intelligent and genuinely good people I know who fall for poo poo like Jordan Peterson is really disheartening. I think these people do need to be engaged, if only to point them in the direction of good arguments to the contrary.

it really does depend on the person

some people stumble their way into an identity without getting all the details, just buying the hype fed to them by that group at face value; I know people who have been die hards for Star Citizen from day one, guys that think Elon Musk is an American hero, and guys that thought it really WAS about ethics in video game journalisms.

some of them just need to see the facts, and upon being educated about what's really going on behind the scenes and how these allegedly noble goals are actually playing out, they'll come around. I have talked people down from voting Trump. It's possible, if they're just ill informed. This is rare. Uncomfortably, excruciatingly rare.

Nerds have a tendency to double down, though, and they commit. You try to give them the facts they're missing, they take it as an attack--like you're calling them dumb. The more you prove what they believe is bullshit, the more they believe in it. They wager that if they're meeting resistance, they must be right. It's where a lot of the "trigger the libs" poo poo comes from--I'm a cool guy on the right side because look at all these people mad at my team. I feel like there's a way to get through to these people but I'm not a psychologist and I can't make someone realize they're defending a hill solely because they already stuck their flag in it. I find this way more common in real life. Soft sever.

Some people just aren't honest. Some people claim it's about A when it's really about a more nefarious B, but they can't admit it without looking like a massive piece of poo poo. Some of them won't even admit it to themselves. They'll talk themselves into circles trying to justify how they're really NOT racist, sexist, homophobic or whatever... this ONE INSTANCE of race/sex/sexuality is just somehow different in a way they can't properly elaborate on. Those people are hosed in the dome. I find this more common on the internet. Hard sever.

And, my probably wrong advice: try to avoid having these kind of arguments in public. They're not arguments you'll often win, because the person arguing it is likely a brick wall and/or willing to say some truly ridiculous and dishonest poo poo just to rile you up, and that's exactly what they want. They don't have to convince passersby that might be on the fence that the shithead is right--they just have to make you look wrong. I forget if that chess rules story has a name or not, but it's that. You care, they don't. You're invested, they're just taking the piss. You walk away looking hysterical and they come off as smug and collected. For people not keeping up with the game, you come off like the bad guy. It's manipulation and it's lovely and it's infantile but I've seen it do wonders.

TL;DR: some people are just ill informed and if you approach it carefully, and show them the things they haven't seen yet, there might be hope. Other people are nazis, gently caress dialogue, punch nazis. Or ban them. If people are just playing to rile up emotions or they're using poo poo to smokescreen their real intentions then they're not owed a microphone, a stage, or your time. slight edit: when I say don't have these arguments in public, I don't mean you should be afraid to just straight up disavow people regardless of time or place, I just mean if you're interested in having an actual conversation and genuinely debating the facts to try and sway them, don't let them turn it into a theatrical production. If you're just telling someone to gently caress off you can do that pretty much whenever feels right

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TL;DR: some people are just ill informed and if you approach it carefully, and show them the things they haven't seen yet, there might be hope. Other people are nazis, gently caress dialogue, punch nazis. Or ban them. If people are just playing to rile up emotions or they're using poo poo to smokescreen their real intentions then they're not owed a microphone, a stage, or your time. slight edit: when I say don't have these arguments in public, I don't mean you should be afraid to just straight up disavow people regardless of time or place, I just mean if you're interested in having an actual conversation and genuinely debating the facts to try and sway them, don't let them turn it into a theatrical production. If you're just telling someone to gently caress off you can do that pretty much whenever feels right

And this ties back into something brought up in the previous incarnation of this thread which is that it's fuckin exhausting to constantly be told "well maybe you should try ~engaging in a dialogue~ instead of just telling them to gently caress off and calling them Nazis!" in regards to an endless parade of shitheads who aren't in it to have a good-faith argument in the first place, particularly when you're one of the sorts of people frequently bearing the brunt of their bullshit. There male nude celebs free is no One Weird Trick that'll totally own comicsgate and make everyone stand up and clap if only people would hold their nose long enough to put it into practice, and they don't deserve the effort. It isn't the civic responsibility of every well-adjusted person in the world to act as unpaid therapists and counselors for a gaggle of broke-brained nerds mad about women and minorities.

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And this ties back into something brought up in the previous incarnation of this thread which is that it's fuckin exhausting to constantly be told "well maybe you should try ~engaging in a dialogue~ instead of just telling them to gently caress off and calling them Nazis!" in regards to an endless parade of shitheads who aren't in it to have a good-faith argument in the first place, particularly when you're one of the sorts of people frequently bearing the brunt of their bullshit. There shay jhonson sex tape is no One Weird Trick that'll totally own comicsgate and make everyone stand up and clap if only people would hold their nose long enough to put it into practice, and they don't deserve the effort. It isn't the civic responsibility of every well-adjusted person in the world to act as unpaid therapists and counselors for a gaggle of broke-brained nerds mad about women and minorities.

Pretty much this, yeah. It's hard to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em--a lot of my family is a backwoods southern kind of lovely, and I spent many years of my life thinking I could just talk them out of it. They don't want to be talked out of it. They will not let me talk them out of it. In that situation, there is no use trying to talk someone out of it. It's needless stress and wasted effort. Some people just refuse to change, and a significant number of those people post on the internet.

Like, I get the sentiment, because it sucks to just throw your hands up and go "well I guess my mom's a loving racist forever" but you don't do yourself or anyone else any favors fighting an unwinnable battle. Save it for someone that wants to know better.

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Pretty much this, yeah. It's hard to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em--a lot of my family is a backwoods southern kind of lovely, and I spent many years of my life thinking I could just talk them out of it. They don't want to be talked out of it. They will not let me talk them out of it. In that situation, there is no use trying to talk someone out of it. It's needless stress and wasted effort. Some people just refuse to change, and a significant number of those people post on the internet.

Like, I get the sentiment, because it sucks to just throw your hands up and go "well I guess my mom's a loving racist forever" but you don't do yourself or anyone else any favors fighting an unwinnable battle. Save it for someone that wants to know better.

Oh for sure, and that sucks, but it isn't even close family members a lot of the time, it's Random Anime Avatar Twitter Poster #8338499-J who thinks it's the height of wit to use an acrostic to call Gail Simone a lightless void sucking the decency out of comics, but for some reason simply responding to people like that with "gently caress off" brings the finger-wag brigade out to bemoan how gillian anderson porn movie disorganized things are and if only they'd listen to someone more enlightened such as themselves comicsgate would be but a memory. Nobody should have to be the remotest bit polite to those idiots and I have 0% concern if they get called every combination of swear-words on the planet.

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1. Harassment or intolerance of any kind is unacceptable.

Does this include harassment or intolerance of nazis and other assorted bigots?

Or are people gonna get insta-banned because of a "Paradox of Tolerance" situation?

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After a round of ridiculous baits of bad faith posting that killed the thread all I have to say is that Wendig dude was fired for really tame tweets compared to calls for guillotines that you can see daily on twitter (which are completely justified imo because just look what pieces of poo poo run things everywhere and where the things are goings at current speed).

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The last few pages seemed to kind of revolve around what 'victory' would look like and that weirdo seemed to focus a lot on how unless gators were 100% stomped out victory would never happen and we were all stupid for trying. I disagree a ton with that because like Lunatic is talking about there are always gonna be bad actors and smug chuds and people who don't know better who are always gonna fall for this stuff for whatever reason.

What we CAN do is make sure as many people as possible know about these ludicrous movements, who they are and what their real intentions are, so that anyone they approach knows 100% what they're really about and they can't get people wrapped up in false narratives or hide behind bad faith arguments. I'd say going by the amount of industry figures stepping up and calling this poo poo for what it really is and how little traction any kind of "well it's really about ethics in comics..." defences of them are getting, that kind of victory is going much better.

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yeah, assholes are gonna be assholes

victory is a world where the assholes can't be assholes in public, where they're afraid to let people know they're assholes, where being an rear end in a top hat isn't tolerated and the assholes know it

like, five years ago nobody would want to announce they're a nazi, ten years ago nobody would dare even hint at it

the fact that dudes are doing straight up blood & soil and anti-jew chants in public spaces shows that they've gotten too comfortable

you can't exterminate them entirely (clearly, because here we are long past WWII and we have nazis) but you can drive them so far into the depths of the dark that they can't say poo poo or do poo poo to anyone and a world where these fuckasses have zero power or influence whatsoever is victory enough for me

I grew up in a world where the idea of real people actually spouting nazi ideologies outside a comic book or a cartoon was ridiculous because Nazis = Evil was a universal fact, as were klansmen and skinheads and all the other fuckers, they were caricatures, they were the embodiment of evil and you knew if someone on TV was a nazi they were an irredeemable villain just there to get the poo poo kicked out of them and I want to go back to that, not this bullshit where people whine about nazis getting hurt in Wolfenstein

I don't want to have to go back in time and explain to my younger self that David Duke has a god drat twitter account where he says the kind of thing you expect David Duke to say on twitter and nobody stops him. All these "ethics in _____" gimmicks are just smokescreens for old fashioned shittiness and I'm glad the comics industry is starting to call it for what it is. Too many people fell for previous -gates, nobody should be making that mistake again.

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Anora
Feb 15, 2014


Knowledge of how -Gates works, and the dogwhistles they use is the only way to drive normal people away from them, plus getting people to understand the weird way they try to play everything as goofy, so people don't take them seriously.

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I don't want to have to go back in time and explain to my younger self that David Duke has a god drat twitter account where he says the kind of thing you expect David Duke to say on twitter and nobody stops him. All these "ethics in _____" gimmicks are just smokescreens for old fashioned shittiness and I'm glad the comics industry is starting to call it for what it is. Too many people fell for previous -gates, nobody should be making that mistake again.

When I was younger I always used to hear the argument "oh you shouldn't try and silence people just because they have abhorrent views, it's better to have them out in the open where everyone can see them and confront them, otherwise they'll go off and congregate in private and get worse" and well, we now know what that looks like and it looks like a bunch of far-right assholes openly being assholes on the world stage for all to see and thus far they've yet to be blasted off the face of the earth by a laser forged from pure logic and clever discourse, and I strongly suspect that there may be a fatal flaw with the idea that all opinions and viewpoints should have equal airtime.

I stand by what I said in the last thread before Jason Yungbluth decided it meant I was a shill for Big Brother, but the thing which hurts these sorts more than anything is to get cut off from their soapboxes and grifts. Vox Day losing his IndieGoGo is great the same way Alex Jones being excised from every major social media platform in the world is great the same way Stormfront being dropped by their ISPs is great, not because I expect the invisible hand of the free market to save the day out of the goodness of its heart but because it seems fairly evident that being cut off from both funding and the means to easily recruit and radicalize others has a tangible impact on the ability of people and groups like this to remain prominent and empowered. Ignoring Yungbluth's lovely political cartoon, Milo sexy naked collage girls is a good example of this in action as at one point he was a darling boy of the alt-right and now he spends his time on Facebook whining that nobody's returning his calls.

It's unfortunate that there isn't really a lot the average person on the ground can really do to facilitate this process, the guy who runs Twitter has been told about the problems with his platform by plenty of folks for years and years and hardly anything's been done to address it in any meaningful sense. Publicly debating them doesn't really seem to have a lot of impact. Insulting them, while similarly unimpactful, is at least an understandable response to someone spewing a non-stop torrent of bullshit in your direction.

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Does this include harassment or intolerance of nazis and other assorted bigots?

Or are people gonna get insta-banned because of a "Paradox of Tolerance" situation?

If you read and understood the rest of that rule you shouldn’t be asking this question.

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A bit part of the problem is that we live in a media climate, on an internet, where every crackpot and reactionary worldview can be validated by some grifter through a simple google search. That's never going to be eliminated entirely, but like you said before it means that someone has to already be questioning or not deeply invested in whatever worldview they're espousing if you want to pitch alternatives to them. And that's notably rare because it would mean admitting wasting years or decades of your life on harmful causes, which is a really painful realization to make. It's easier to sink into deeper webs of conspiracy crafting where you're not the bad one, those other people who say you're a racist who is directly contributing to the death of poor people are the real evil. They're a front to a global conspiracy to destroy civilization and put list of teen books your children in cages!

There is value in discussing the benefits of allies, especially privileged allies who have the time and mental/physical resources to cope with abuse because they only opt in to it when they're directly engaging oppressors. And privileged allies can also be beneficial because it means that there's someone who "looks like them" talking to critics, like with Tim Wise, which they may be more willing to listen to. But there are also a lot of people who like the optics of looking like an ally or progressive advocate but who turn out to be self-obsessed opportunists that are totally willing to drop the act the minute it becomes inconvenient or embarrassing for them. It's how Ian Miles Cheong went from being a visible anti-gamergate voice to rattling a tin can at various alt-right media outlets after he had a twitter meltdown because people called elements of Witcher 3 sexist. It's a lot of work (and drama) sussing out honest advocates from people who are only doing it for some personal gain, and it's perfectly understandable that any new voices would be regarded suspiciously for a while until they gain enough trust.

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If you read and understood the rest of that rule you shouldn’t be asking this question.

As I understood the rule, we should not be telling Nazis in this thread to gently caress off because every post comes equipped with Big Jim Slade a handy gently caress Off Nazi button found next to "Quote". Am I mistaken in this?

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As I understood the rule, we should not be telling Nazis in this thread to gently caress off because every post comes equipped with Big Jim Slade a handy gently caress Off Nazi button found next to "Quote". Am I mistaken in this?

Yes you are mistaken in this. That was the last thread. This thread is not that thread. The report button is so I can ban anyone behaving like that. After you hit that button you can use the reply button to do so in whatever manner you like.

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Something I think is interesting is comparing Comicsgate and Gamergate to the attempts in the last year or so to get a Tabletopgate going.

Tabletop gaming absolutely has a problem with lovely nerds, serial harassers, and bigots but any attempt to try and get an organized movement going like CG and GG has been immediately stamped out by people in the TRPG online community. The audience is theoretically video porno mature porche there and god knows there's been issues lately (the new White Wolf being ran by a fascist, the large portion of WH40k fandom unironically into the Imperium's ideology, sexual harassment at Pathfinder Society events), but the community as a whole wasn't having it. Hell the last attempt to make a D&DGate hashtag was immediately hijacked by people talking about their favorite gates from fantasy artwork.

And I feel like a lot of that has to do with the general reaction to Gamergate and Comicsgate which was "ignore them and they'll go away". They didn't. It just emboldened them to be louder and worse and websites started reporting them like they're a valid movement - see Bleeding Cool's incredibly soft-handed approach to EVS about a year before everything blew up - and not people to be told to immediately shut the gently caress up.

Basically I think it's up to people in nerd communities to clean their own house, and comics were pretty loving bad about it. Now we've got this. And this isn't forever. The energy will always taper off or go to other places (just hopefully not "ruining the rest of the world" like GG did) but it should make people be more vigilant from now on.

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Something I think is interesting is comparing Comicsgate and Gamergate to the attempts in the last year or so to get a Tabletopgate going.

Tabletop gaming absolutely has a problem with lovely nerds, serial harassers, and bigots but any attempt to try and get an organized movement going like CG and GG has been immediately stamped out by people in the TRPG online community. The audience is theoretically sex with hiv partner there and god knows there's been issues lately (the new White Wolf being ran by a fascist, the large portion of WH40k fandom unironically into the Imperium's ideology, sexual harassment at Pathfinder Society events), but the community as a whole wasn't having it. Hell the last attempt to make a D&DGate hashtag was immediately hijacked by people talking about their favorite gates from fantasy artwork.

And I feel like a lot of that has to do with the general reaction to Gamergate and Comicsgate which was "ignore them and they'll go away". They didn't. It just emboldened them to be louder and worse and websites started reporting them like they're a valid movement - see Bleeding Cool's incredibly soft-handed approach to EVS about a year before everything blew up - and not people to be told to immediately shut the gently caress up.

Basically I think it's up to people in nerd communities to clean their own house, and comics were pretty loving bad about it. Now we've got this. And this isn't forever. The energy will always taper off or go to other places (just hopefully not "ruining the rest of the world" like GG did) but it should make people be more vigilant from now on.

It's also that the TG community is based around a hobby that's mostly about being face to face with people and playing games (okay, and also online, but still, mostly in person), and nobody wants to play with toxic shitheads in real life.

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Just to confirm: This is still the thread to talk about general industry issues like labor problems etc, yes?

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Tabletop gaming absolutely has a problem with lovely nerds, serial harassers, and bigots but any attempt to try and get an organized movement going like CG and GG has been immediately stamped out by people in the TRPG online community. The audience is theoretically nude bike ride pictures there and god knows there's been issues lately (the new White Wolf being ran by a fascist, the large portion of WH40k fandom unironically into the Imperium's ideology, sexual harassment at Pathfinder Society events), but the community as a whole wasn't having it. Hell the last attempt to make a D&DGate hashtag was immediately hijacked by people talking about their favorite gates from fantasy artwork.

The D&DGate thing fell flat because there was no real weight of public figures behind it. And the guy leading the push is an unlikable rear end in a top hat with fans that are too crusty to use Twitter or YouTube. (Though I guess that didn't stop the D&D dev team from recruiting him for a paid playtest of 5e to buy his endorsement of it.) He's busy embedding himself in comicsgate now and nobody is giving him the time of day.

Comicsgate had a few false starts before some major creators jumped in on it and the D&C YouTube channel got big enough to campaign around. The blowup around that alt right Magic: the Gathering youtuber harassing female cosplayers should be proof that the ingredients are there if someone can perfect the recipe for a tabletopgate.

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Just to confirm: This is still the thread to talk about general industry issues like labor problems etc, yes?

That falls under Industry Terribleness so yes.

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It's also that the TG community is based around a hobby that's mostly about being face to face with people and playing games (okay, and also online, but still, mostly in person), and nobody wants to play with toxic shitheads in real life.

being face to face just lets them sexually ASSAULT instead of just harassing. If you think being face to face makes them back down, you'd be mistaken when there are multiple lovely faces and one woman to gang up on. sex scene from bound

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The D&DGate thing fell flat because there was no real weight of public figures behind it. And the guy leading the push is an unlikable rear end in a top hat with fans that are too crusty to use Twitter or YouTube. (Though I guess that didn't stop the D&D dev team from recruiting him for a paid playtest of 5e to buy his endorsement of it.) He's busy embedding himself in comicsgate now and nobody is giving him the time of day.

Comicsgate had a few false starts before some major creators jumped in on it and the D&C YouTube channel got big enough to campaign around. The blowup around that alt right Magic: the Gathering youtuber harassing female cosplayers should be proof that the ingredients are there if someone can perfect the recipe for a tabletopgate.

The difference is that WotC immediately took a huge steaming poo poo on Hamhocks and made it clear that the behavior isn't acceptable

Unlike marvel

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being face to face just lets them sexually ASSAULT instead of just harassing. If you think being face to face makes them back down, you'd be mistaken when there are multiple lovely faces and one woman to gang up on. being on top sex

Side bar this is surprisingly not from the incredibly terrible 40k crowd, it's malifaux, which has a generally less lovely company and crowd behind it

Which makes this even more depressing for me

Edit cool the co creator of Malifaux sucks farts I'm good with not giving them more money

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Apr 1, 2006

It's kind of a long story.

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Side bar this is surprisingly not from the incredibly terrible 40k crowd, it's malifaux, which has a generally less lovely company and crowd behind it
kara monaco nude pictures some perspective on how the 40K crowd treats women from someone who just started presenting as one.

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The difference is that WotC immediately took a huge steaming poo poo on Hamhocks and made it clear that the behavior isn't acceptable

Unlike marvel

Yeah, unless you’re on the approved list of TTG harassers you can get the gently caress out I guess.

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being face to face just lets them sexually ASSAULT instead of just harassing. If you think being face to face makes them back down, you'd be mistaken when there are multiple lovely faces and one woman to gang up on. old lady porn clips
I remember when this was first published.

It actually seems to have made a difference in stores and communities. A lot of new anti-harassment policies can probably be traced right back to that blog post.

I know I took it to heart and it made me even more conscious of my responsibility to quash bullshit before it becomes a major problem.

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If you read and understood the rest of that rule you shouldn’t be asking this question.

I did read it but I am not sure I understood it because I am worried about statements you made in the last thread where you seemed to confuse telling nazis to gently caress off with actual harassment. If you've had a change of heart that's cool but it'd be nice to have it in writing

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The difference is that WotC immediately took a huge steaming poo poo on Hamhocks and made it clear that the behavior isn't acceptable

Unlike marvel

That's true but they only took action after a woman said she had been targeted by him and his followers for months of harassment, which ultimately led to her leaving the community. It's not like they were unaware of what a shithead he was, either, since they'd already taken him off their list of sponsored people they'd send promotional and preview stuff to.

Like I said, the potential is there for worse. Hopefully the comparatively small (non MtG/Warham wings) of tabletop gaming will prevent anything worse if the communities are proactive, but it's still worrying.

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I did read it but I am not sure I understood it because I am worried about statements you made in the last thread where you seemed to confuse telling nazis to gently caress off with actual harassment. If you've had a change of heart that's cool but it'd be nice to have it in writing

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Yes you are mistaken in this. That was the last thread. This thread is not that thread. The report button is so I can ban anyone behaving like that. After you hit that button you can use the reply button to do so in whatever manner you like.

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Yeah I got that the last thread was like that, that's part of my apprehension. I am asking about this thread and you have so far refused to give a straight answer twice. Are you going to ban people for perceived harassment against nazis and other assorted bigots?

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Yeah I got that the last thread was like that, that's part of my apprehension. I am asking about this thread and you have so far refused to give a straight answer twice. Are you going to ban people for perceived harassment against nazis and other assorted bigots?

The post above literally says you can reply however you like. I'm not sure it can be made any clearer.

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